Notices

freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed????

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-23-2006, 04:33 AM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
92gsrteg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed????

hey guys, im bout to build my jdm gsr motor, just the block, cp 81.5mm 9:1cr pistons, manley tt rods, acl bearings. I was wondering when im done can i break it in with all my turbo stuff still on. I was thinkin i just wouldn't boost just drive around normally, the reason i ask is cuase i got resistors soldered in for my 550's and really dont wanna have to desolder them and put the stock injectors back in. was wonderin what u guys think i should do, i was just gonna drive around normal and not get on it at all whatsoever for a few days. i've heard though that u should actually sorta beat on a motor during break-in, not the first few hours but i heard after doin the initial turning on for a few minutes then off then back on then off then little 3 minute drive then off and so on. LMK thanks
Old 03-23-2006, 04:39 AM
  #2  
Honda-Tech Member
 
nonvtecD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Watertown, CT, USA
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (92gsrteg)

If you have a wideband and someone tuning while you break it in it is fine to break it in on boost. I did.
Old 03-23-2006, 05:22 AM
  #3  
Honda-Tech Member
 
EK_GSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (nonvtecD)

i borke in a new motor like that.. but i didnt connect the charge piping to the TB, and kept the RPMS below 3000. there are alot of write up's on breaking in motors.
Old 03-23-2006, 05:26 AM
  #4  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
92gsrteg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (92gsrteg)

thanks guys, ya i looked around and tried searching but it gave me a few things that werent exactly what i was lookin at. I have the aem wideband, so i guess i'll just check my air fuel ratios, disconnect a charge pipe, and keep rpms low, thanks guys.
Old 03-23-2006, 05:52 AM
  #5  
wrenchin'
 
I Have an STD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Full of shit in NY, USA
Posts: 3,643
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (92gsrteg)

you can leave your chipped ecu in there with your original boost map and drive the car around like stock. if you are running uber/crome then it just acts like a stock ecu when it doesnt see boost. you can just throw a stock header and intake on it and driveit with the 550cc injectors. it will run exactly how it does out of boost.

and do alot of engine braking when ur breaking it in, helps ring seal
Old 03-23-2006, 10:00 AM
  #6  
Honda-Tech Member
 
nonvtecD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Watertown, CT, USA
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

IMO disconnecting a charge pipe is stupid, you think they break factory turbo motors in non turbo?
Old 03-23-2006, 10:38 AM
  #7  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
jfoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: springfield, missouri, usa
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: (nonvtecD)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO disconnecting a charge pipe is stupid, you think they break factory turbo motors in non turbo?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed Plus won't that over spin the turbo and hurt it?

I have a spare WG spring thats 3.63 PSI ... thinkin about usin that for breakin...

Kinda worried that I am going from an LS to an LS/Vtec so I will have to be running a complete base map for initial break in. And really there is no time for tuning before hand from what I have read ....

It seems like you're supposed to start the motor for the first time ... watch for leaks as it warms up , then as soon as its warm take it out on the road and accelerate from ~20mph to ~50mph and then let it deccelerate (closed throttle) back down to ~20mph and repeat 10-12 times or so ... return home and change the oil ... then go out and tune the car while driving normally (no babying it, no beating it).

I am gonna see if I can get some experienced input in this thread from some builders that have built/broke in alot of turbo motors
Old 03-23-2006, 11:01 AM
  #8  
Honda-Tech Member
 
simike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: (jfoster)

I let my car run for about 1hr while I checked for leaks and fixed some cel's. I changed the oil and took it to my tuner. Before hand I drove it about 1 mile to make sure the drivetrain was ok.
Old 03-23-2006, 11:05 AM
  #9  
Honda-Tech Member
 
flip1199's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: sacramento, ca, usa
Posts: 3,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: (simike)

if u can, start it up and let it warm up. shut it off, change the oil and get it tuned. and your set.
Old 03-23-2006, 11:21 AM
  #10  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
jfoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: springfield, missouri, usa
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (92gsrteg)

Originally Posted by earl
One of the most asked questions is how do I break in my new motor? The short answer is that no break-in is necessary. The only thing that is necessary is to seat the rings. All clearances and fitments should be perfect after blueprinting and precision assembly. So how many miles do you have to drive it to seat the rings? The cylinders are round, the rings are round, the bore is freshly honed and therefore your engine should be ready for tuning immediately. They will continue to seat better over a short period of time but you should be ready to go tune right away.
Do I need to drive it 500 miles before I tune it? Absolutely not. How about 50 miles? No. Perhaps the best thing to do is to drive it all the way to your trailer and tow it to a competent tuner. In second position on the “things NOT to do list” is trying to break in an un-tuned engine by driving it. Too lean an air/fuel will begin to heat and distort parts, too rich will wash the oil off the cylinders causing premature wear. What is in first place on the “things NOT to do list”? Boost on an un-tuned motor. Within 2 to 3 seconds the pistons and cylinders can be ruined.
Well I did put in a new base map or I’m just running off the stock Honda computer. Can’t I drive it like that for a few miles? I’m not even boosting. Well what is the base map? Just someone’s idea of what numbers will start your car. Just an educated guess by someone who does not have a clue what components you are running in your set-up. It’s not intended to drive on for any extended period of time. The same with that stock Honda computer. It could be ok but it could also be dangerously wrong.

So what exactly do I do at the first engine start-up? Pull the spark plugs and crank the motor with your starter for a maximum of 30 seconds or until you see the oil pressure gauge begin to register. Re-install the plugs and wires and fire up that candle. While keeping one eye on the oil pressure gauge, use your other eye to scan for fuel leaks. If there are no fuel leaks, look under the motor for any major oil or coolant leaks. If that is ok, run the engine for 5 to 10 minutes while keeping an eye on the temperature and pressure gauges. Keep the rpm’s between 1000-3000. Shut the engine down and double-check everything. You are now ready for tuning.

But my engine was already tuned from my previous set-up. Well, what happened to your previous set-up? Did you melt a stock piston or crack a cylinder? No problem because now you have forged pistons and sleeves? Wrong. Although you now have stronger components that will take more abuse, you are still not right on your air fuel mixture. Get that thing tuned properly ASAP.

OK, I did it my way instead of yours and now I’m burning a lot of oil. What happened? Well basically you scarred up the skirt of the piston, messed up the surface of the cylinder wall and maybe even egg shaped the cylinder. New pistons are tapered smaller on the top to larger at the bottom of the skirt. Your piston to wall clearance is measured at the bottom of the skirt. As the engine warms up to operating temperature, the upper portion of the piston begins to expand slightly. The bottom of the skirt does not expand much. When you boost in a lean condition, the upper part of the piston expands quickly. Since the ring land area is cut smaller than the tapered skirt below it, the first part of the piston that pushes into the cylinder wall is just below the oil ring. Thus you will see the worst scarring on your piston right under the ring lands where the excess heat is the highest



The more heat that is generated, the harder the piston pushes into the cylinder wall. The uninformed would blame the piston damage on bad piston to wall clearance. Untrue. If that were the problem, the damage would show up at the very bottom of the skirt. What has happened is that you have expanded your piston to the point that it has just ground itself into the cylinder wall. Keep expanding the piston by super heating it and it will push your cylinder egg shaped and maybe even balloon out the cylinder slightly. At the same time this is happening, your ring lands will begin to distort to where they will never seal properly again. Sometimes after doing this, the engine will still run but it will be a smoker. This all happens in a few seconds of high boost with a lean air fuel ratio. Also it can happen from 500 freeway miles of driving where the tune up is off enough to build excess heat at a slower rate, thus doing the same damage over a longer period of time…but the end results are the same. Death to your pistons and cylinder walls.

OK, I’m just going to turn the fuel pressure way up and run extra fat, that way I won’t hurt anything. If you run too rich, you will “wash out” the rings. First, excess fuel will run down the cylinders taking the lubricating oil with it. This promotes direct metal-to-metal contact between the rings and the cylinder wall. This contact does several things. The upper ring begins to wear quickly. The middle ring is actually designed as a tapered oil scraper (it is not used for compression control at all) and the taper will begin to wear down to where it becomes flat rather than angled. When that happens, it can no longer control oil away from the combustion chamber. The last thing that happens is that pretty cross hatch design begins to wear off of the cylinder wall. While most people think that the cross hatch is there to help seat the rings, it also has a secondary purpose. That is to hold microscopic amounts of oil in the grooves to help lubricate ring to cylinder walls. With the walls smooth and no oil control help from the middle ring and a tired upper ring, oil will begin to mix with fuel in the combustion chamber. When this happens, your 93 octane fuel probably hits a value of about 80. Then detonation comes into play and begins to beat holes in the pistons, among other things.

So whom can I blame for this mess? The blind machinist that honed my piston to wall clearance? That poor quality Brand X piston manufacturer? The idiot pro engine builder that assembled my block? My ex-friend that helped me put this all together? Those ignorant engineers that gave me a bad base map with my engine management system? The guy on the internet message board whose buddy knows that it takes at least 1000 miles of break in before you can tune an engine properly? All of the above? Probably none of the above. Go look in a mirror and ask…who started this engine and had no idea what the air fuel ratio was? Who just wanted to jump on it one time to see if it would haul? Who didn’t know that their injectors were at 100% duty cycle at 4000 rpm but they wanted to see how it would run at 6000 rpm? Why it was you. Get that thing tuned right away. You will notice that the more you drive a tuned motor, the stronger it will feel. This is just the rings seating in their final 5-10% as they thank you for tuning first.
Old 03-23-2006, 12:19 PM
  #11  
Honda-Tech Member
 
ExVtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: WV
Posts: 1,962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (92gsrteg)

Broke mine in on 9lbs wastegate setting..

Check sig..

Old 03-23-2006, 03:26 PM
  #12  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (2)
 
CHEETAH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Woodbridge, NJ, Middlesex
Posts: 5,828
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (92gsrteg)

if you had a perfectly running ECU with the same injectors before the rebuild, use that to break in the motor until you get to your tuner. If you did not, don't even think of starting the car up with stock ECU and bigger injectors, it will wash the cyl walls.
In terms of break in, no such thing, you jsut need to seat the rings, this happens over time as leakage decreases if your cyl bores and pistons remain the same shape, i.e. round. For it to remain round, dont (risk) running it very lean or the heat wil reshape the piston for you and you'll have piston/wall contact.
You also want to NOT run any type of synthetic or "very slippery" oil for the first few miles or its tougher for the ring to seat.

greg
Old 03-24-2006, 08:12 AM
  #13  
Honda-Tech Member
 
crex23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alcoa, TN, USA
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (CHEETAH)

I think I read you can hook up your turbo setup and everything, but run the stock injectors and computer and take out the wastegate spring so there is no boost. Is this correct?

I plan on starting the car up and seating the rings, check for leaks etc, then towing the car to the tuner's.
Old 03-24-2006, 08:43 AM
  #14  
Honda-Tech Member
 
atec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed???? (crex23)

[QUOTE=crex23]I think I read you can hook up your turbo setup and everything, but run the stock injectors and computer and take out the wastegate spring so there is no boost. QUOTE]

Was about to say that...

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
stocker2shocker91
Forced Induction
1
07-14-2010 03:54 PM
4ghatch
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
28
04-20-2007 10:39 PM
jaydem_ekizzle
Forced Induction
1
06-25-2006 08:38 PM
ChillOutWayne
Tech / Misc
28
01-06-2004 11:07 PM
TruePlayaz114
Forced Induction
8
10-31-2003 12:31 PM



Quick Reply: freshley built b18c, can i brake it in with turbo installed????



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:28 PM.