FredoSP

Here are the pics, I assume cracked ringlands Thanks to all who suggested this to me, just to show you ALL were right! The block is 99.9% stripped, I have to package her and hopefully get her shipped out Friday or Saturday to RS.

I caught the problem the week it happened, no damage was done to my valves and my cylinder walls are still perfect. It goes to show that a compression check which takes ~10 minutes per month is WORTH IT! - IMO

Comments Welcome!

[Edit] [Bitched]Cause Mike Bitched about the Images > 300k [/Bitched] [/Edit]















Modified by FredoSP at 4:20 AM 7/24/2003

KTeller8

ouch!

dammit fred make them smaller: we all dont have 200" LCD screens

Adi Radoncic

What kind of pistons are those and what was the cause of the broken lands??

Adi

FredoSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What kind of pistons are those and what was the cause of the broken lands??

Adi</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock B16A2 Pistons from my 2000 Civic Si w/ 73k on the (w/ 21k of "turbo miles" @ 5psi and the blue Box).

I had the 18G Greddy Kit on my car, Im not sure, maybe I ran really lean when I had an Open DP. I was running the blue box, RC 310's and NO ignition retarding (as PER THE GREDDY Instructions!) Im not too sure. Hondata was supposed to go in, but before I wanted to give her a quick compression check, and well Im in the middle of a rebuild.

miller

those are stock b16 pistons, and the cause....BOOST

VTC_CiViC

Another death to the bluebox...


Oh well, I guess you can look forward to a stronger motor and Hondata now right?

DBallz

Same thing happen to my stock B16 but now I rebuilt my motor and running strong for over a year now and I'm in the 12's so I'm happy I broke all my piston ring lands.

redlinegsr

oh man how good does it feel that you caught it before it became nasty!!

rjardy

How much were you boosting on that greddy kit? What management?


Rob

vtec69

wow how hard was it to take out the pistons fred?


-Brian

FredoSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rjardy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much were you boosting on that greddy kit? What management?

Rob</TD></TR></TABLE>

5 psi, Blue Box (I said it above) 21k miles, no problems tho

FredoSP

ur wrist hurt today?

preluder

damn And I never seen something like that before but on 5psi did you build it up and it did that or did you slap it on there and tune it and left it as is?

Hondatec38

That's right. The blue box is the easiest scapegoat. Let's blame that . ERRRRRRRR.....wrong answer! I love my blue box. I love it because it only idles my car with 310's, and blocks positive MAP voltage signals. So if his landings went at idle then I would damn the blue box and spike it into the trash can. But since I'm sure they went under a significant amout of load, then maybe we should blame the Honda PCM because that's where all of his fuel trims come from after he stabs the throttle out of idle. Stop the Hate. Love the Box.

SiRkid

rebuild

11psiTurboSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FredoSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Stock B16A2 Pistons from my 2000 Civic Si w/ 73k on the (w/ 21k of "turbo miles" @ 5psi and the blue Box).

I had the 18G Greddy Kit on my car, Im not sure, maybe I ran really lean when I had an Open DP. I was running the blue box, RC 310's and NO ignition retarding (as PER THE GREDDY Instructions!) Im not too sure. Hondata was supposed to go in, but before I wanted to give her a quick compression check, and well Im in the middle of a rebuild.</TD></TR></TABLE>
same thing happen to me 9psi with stock injectors with a fmu i crack piston #2,3,and 4 was the top and bottom ringland on a b16a2 with 26xxx miles and nothing happen to my block and i also showed 90psi on the #4 cyclinder and the valves were perfect.

11psiTurboSI

now i have 8.8:1 JE pistons and eagles rods... 8.8:1cr is way too low if you go forged pistons get 9.8-9.5:1cr at the lowest!!! just alittle advice

FredoSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 9psiTurboSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now i have 8.8:1 JE pistons and eagles rods... 8.8:1cr is way too low if you go forged pistons get 9.8-9.5:1cr at the lowest!!! just alittle advice </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah im going 83mm bore and 10:1 compression

rjardy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondatec38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's right. The blue box is the easiest scapegoat. Let's blame that . ERRRRRRRR.....wrong answer! I love my blue box. I love it because it only idles my car with 310's, and blocks positive MAP voltage signals. So if his landings went at idle then I would damn the blue box and spike it into the trash can. But since I'm sure they went under a significant amout of load, then maybe we should blame the Honda PCM because that's where all of his fuel trims come from after he stabs the throttle out of idle. Stop the Hate. Love the Box. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah I will blame the blue box. Running lean is not the only way that you can damage ring lands or pistons. Running excesivly rich will have bad affects as well (wich the blue box is notorious for running rich) Think about it, you have an excess amount of fuel in the combustion chamber, obviously your factory ignition (or any ignition) is not going to be able to light off all that fuel. So what happens? Engine comes around to compression stroke, and the fuel that did not get burnt is still in the cylinder............And basic physics will tell us that, fuel being a liquid is not compressable, it has to go somewhere right? So where is it going to go? Well the pressure in the combustion chamber is going to push that unburnt fuel down the sides of the piston between the RINGS and the wall, damaging over time, the rings. So yes it is justifies to say that there is a posibility that the blue box can cause this.

Rob

vtec69

damn it fred is the build up done yet

I wanna ride in the Si-T

-Brian

Tweakmeister

looks like it wasn't broken in correctly, and/or was running awfully hot.

T4eg

ouch..thats not good

Hondatec38

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rjardy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Yeah I will blame the blue box. Running lean is not the only way that you can damage ring lands or pistons. Running excesivly rich will have bad affects as well (wich the blue box is notorious for running rich) Think about it, you have an excess amount of fuel in the combustion chamber, obviously your factory ignition (or any ignition) is not going to be able to light off all that fuel. So what happens? Engine comes around to compression stroke, and the fuel that did not get burnt is still in the cylinder............And basic physics will tell us that, fuel being a liquid is not compressable, it has to go somewhere right? So where is it going to go? Well the pressure in the combustion chamber is going to push that unburnt fuel down the sides of the piston between the RINGS and the wall, damaging over time, the rings. So yes it is justifies to say that there is a posibility that the blue box can cause this.

Rob</TD></TR></TABLE>

I got some Bad news. The blue box has no preset fuel trims programed into it for the '99-00 Si turbo kits. It only idles the car with 310cc ijectors.. Everyone thinks that the blue box has this preset fuel map. That is not the case at all. After you stab the throttle to break out of idle the blue box STOPS. It's only job beyond idle is to block positive MAP voltage signals to fool the Honda PCM. Pulse width and duty cycle are exactly same from a stock Si to one with the turbo kit at WOT. If you do not believe this then just look at the OBD-II data list while running the car. Compare the two cars. Especially look at LT and ST fuel trims. Also if that much fuel was in the combustion chamber to do ring damage I'd be worried about hydrolocking. There is realistly, not that much fuel to be not compressable. Ring damage is an effect of boost. PERIOD. I have accepted this. It has not stopped me from boosting my Si. I love the Blue Box. I will never blame it for any internal damage. If you want to blame it thats OK with me. I'm just trying to put some facts to the matter .

rjardy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondatec38 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I got some Bad news. The blue box has no preset fuel trims programed into it for the '99-00 Si turbo kits. It only idles the car with 310cc ijectors.. Everyone thinks that the blue box has this preset fuel map. That is not the case at all. After you stab the throttle to break out of idle the blue box STOPS. It's only job beyond idle is to block positive MAP voltage signals to fool the Honda PCM. Pulse width and duty cycle are exactly same from a stock Si to one with the turbo kit at WOT. If you do not believe this then just look at the OBD-II data list while running the car. Compare the two cars. Especially look at LT and ST fuel trims. Also if that much fuel was in the combustion chamber to do ring damage I'd be worried about hydrolocking. There is realistly, not that much fuel to be not compressable. Ring damage is an effect of boost. PERIOD. I have accepted this. It has not stopped me from boosting my Si. I love the Blue Box. I will never blame it for any internal damage. If you want to blame it thats OK with me. I'm just trying to put some facts to the matter .</TD></TR></TABLE>

so after idle the blue box does nothing? AT ALL? what keeps the car from running lean under boost? It certainly is not the 310 injectors and a high flow intank pump. If you have it all figured out, please enlighten me. I personally dont believe that 5 psi and no other factors will destroy ring lands like that. 5 pounds over atmospheric pressure would probably not do much at all other than shove more air into the combustion chamber (wich is its function ) Wich leads me to believe that Freds damage was done by incorect A/F ratio. High heat/detonation or wash. In this case im pretty sure it was high heat and slight detonation. If you refer back to my first post, I said that a rich blue box can cause damage, not that the blue box is what blew up freds car. But to some extent I still blame the box, evan if it is just to bust your chops over the internet

Rob

FredoSP

This is a great FI debate

Maybe I should post pic of my spark plugs, but i did run lean in Cyc 3 and 4 (cause of the whiteness of the plugs) and the ringlands were shot on cyc 3 and I had 3 cracks in cyc 4. Correct me if Im wrong but white plugs means lean.

P.S. On a lighter note, post the fuel trims for LT and ST.