1fstevo

Okay, I have read all the oil catch can, valve cover breather, PVC topic in the search forum ( Took me awhile) and from what I have read, no one was able for sure where goes where and what to use.
One thing I'm positive about is the Oil catch can between the Oil separator and Intake manifold is a good idea, seems everyone agreed with that and making of it is very straight foward.

The question is: The Breather.....

Here is some of the conclusions I have read from other memebers and each has very different opinion.

-DO NOT remove the stock tube that connects the valve cover to the intake. It creates unbalanced pressure between the block and Head.
-Put a breather filter on so engine can recieve fresh air.
-Put a breather filter on so no oil can go in the TB and the manifold.
-Some one said there Should be no oil coming out the breather since the breather is a inlet for the PVC system.
-then someone said oil will come out of the breather if it's boosted.
-Use a slash cut tube in the intake pipe to create vacuam.
-Someone also said on FI hondas, connect the valve cover breather to the Preturbo pipe which the Airfilter is connected, Before the turbo is a must.
-then someone said just connect the breather to the Charge pipe which is before the TB after the turbo is fine too.

THIS is REDICULAS!!!!!

So the questions breakdown to one subject, ON Turbocharged HONDA what is the right way to connect the breather?

If it's connected before the turbo, think about it, breather suck air into the engine. Connect breather before the turbo wouldn't it cause reverse reaction? That's alot of boost sucking through the turbo and wouldn't it suck vapor or air away from the breather? But then Greddy kit connect the breather to the preturbo pipe so who do you believe.

I also like the idea that if a filter is placed at the breather supposely it will suck in fresh air into the head, BUT, it messes up the balance of the lower part and top part of the engine pressure( Head and the block). Basically, the cycle of the close loop of the PVC system is interupted.

Now stick the breather to where the stock location use to be is awkward too because I assume it's fine under all motor since the Honda designed that way but on Boosted hondas, Turbo shoves air into the engine which is so powerful for the engine to suck it in itself. Air travel the same direction but is now delivered differently. So. by connecting the breather there is a question. What I have just said don't make sense either because if turbo shove so much air into the engine then there should be no vacuam in the intake tube and the intake manifold but it does have vacuam or else our FPR, Brake booster, and other vacuam dependent items on our cars won't work.

So who can really clear this thing up???
I am just curious because I have moroso homemade catch can where the PCV oil separator are but I just sticked a filter on the breather of the valve cover which ran fine even till now. I don't think the breather topic is such a big deal but would be great if someone can explain clearly.

onefastcx

what most raxcer people do is just run a hose from the valve cover ( where the breather would go to) and they just run it to underneath the car so that you don't get oil in the intake manifold or the tb so it will all run out the hose and on to the ground under the car


as for a catch can you need to have this so that oil is not sucked in to the engine through the intakemaniflod , this will create detonation and you do no t want this to happen

if you do what i said then your car will run great and with no problems GOOD LUCK HOPE I HELPED SOME

1fstevo

YES..one reply...Thanks for the info.
So your opinion is there will be no unbalanced pressure difference between the lower block and the top of the head? Any theories?
BTW, I have heard your suggestion before and I know it works, now I have one person stand on this method.

SEFIxCivic

Well, im not sure if this is the best way to do it, or even a good way, but this is what im going to do.

this idea is borrowed off of Zip on ClubSi, but its a little bit different.

Off the stock black box, remove the pvc valve. add some type of barb and attach a large diameter hose, and run that hose toward the back of the car and attach it to the frame. according to zip the car's natural aerodynamics should pull the blow by out of the motor.

what i'm doing in addition to this is that im having a -10 AN bung welded to my valve cover and running that to a open loop catch can system to vent anything Zip's method misses.

And im basically going to block off the stock spout on the valve cover and the intake manifold.

i don't think this answers you question exactly, but I hope it helps. if you want to understand how the stock pvc system works, take a look at the helms. after you read up on it, everything will make sense.

good luck

sgT

Put a filter on it or connect it to the filter pipe before the turbo.

dustin

Polyvinyl chloride?

sgT

LOL
im tired, didnt even catch that haha

LSturboHB

on NO not Polyvinyl chloride

1fstevo

Thanks for everyone's information. I got a little **** on the subject and I thought maybe there is only one way to do this. I did read the helms but it only concern the stock motor which I don't think turbo motor applies to that. I guess the breather filter works, open loop system also works, last of all, connect it to the preturbo pipe works too. Just don't hook it up to the charge pipe after the turbo.

JM Performance

Here we go again

[Evo]Hybrid - your in the same boat I was in. If you notice, MANY of the posts on this subject are from me. I was looking for the perfect system....problem is, it doesn't exist...or not easily.

This is what you want, three simple things:
1)excess crank case pressure to be let out of the engine
2)fresh air to be brought into the engine in its place
3)have no oilly vapors running throught your turbo/IC/throttle body...you get the idea
In addition, you want this to happen all the time, whether its idle, WOT, vacuum or boost.

The only way to have the vapors sucked out all the time and fresh air always sucked in is to have the engine hooked up to a costant vacuum source. Since we dont have one the only other option is vacuum pump. There are several kinds of these ranging from mechanical to electrical, but they're expensive.

Because this method is so impracticle, and most likely overkill, I had to settle. What I have running now is a catchcan between my engine and pcv valve (if you need more explenation on this I can, but I think you understand this system), and a simple breather filter on my valve cover. My theory about this system is that in vacuum the engine can suck in fresh air like normal, and under boost it can let out any excess pressure through the filter. I know its not sucking in fresh air during boost like you would like it to, but for the under 15 seconds that your in boost, I think you should be ok. This isn't the perfect set-up, but its the best I've come up with.

Also, I never really heard of any problems with unequal pressures in the engine.....all the areas are connected. On the stock system, the hose connected to the intake is no different than the breather filter....both act as a source to air....nothing more.

[Evo]Hybrid - If you wanna talk about this more, hit me up on AIM anytime, I'm always up for a good discussion.

SiR Kid

I have a breather filter on my Valve Cover... Never had any oil n the manifold problem.. Maybe my motor's still nice N tight, though. I only have about 2k miles on it.

I have the PCV still hooked up in it's stock location... Would a one way valve on the PCV line making it stop boost, but encourage vacuum work well on my setup?

earl

Here is a constant vacuum source that works on many race cars... All props to the original artist...
The beauty of this system is there is no way to contaminate the intake charge. The check valve must be installed after the cat. so you won't mess it up.
Also to those who asked: If the oil is able to return from the top on the engine to the pan, there must be an open passage between the two...So how can there be more pressure in the pan or the head? It has to be equal.



[Modified by earl, 10:24 AM 1/27/2002]

JM Performance

HAHAHA......thats my pic.

Problem with that is it only works on open exhaust cars. Muffled cars have pressure in the exhaust system (you've heard of back pressure, right?). No matter what you do, your not gunna get a good vacuum out of the exhaust of a muffled car. I was gunna run this setup....didn't because of that.

earl

HeHe..Good thing I gave u props, huh!
Ok, here we go again except on line this time. The vacuum is created by the exhaust flow passing over the opening in the exh. pipe NOT the over all pressure in the whole tube. The only way it won't create vacuum is if you have a "bananna in the tail pipe." No matter how much back pressure is created by the muffler, the exhaust is still traveling out. It's the flow over the opening creating the negative force. I think we need a physics professor as a moderator. Anyone?

JM Performance

Some say it will, othersay say it wont. I say it wont. What we need is someone to test it out though.

The only real life experience that I have with this that leads me to think that it wont work is my wastegate setup. I have my dumptube routed to after my cat....and into the exhaust at an angle....almost exactly like the pic. The tubing is big, like 1-5/8", so I'm not sure if that makes a difference. Either way....when the end of that tube is open (my wastegate is not hooked up), air comes out....not in. And it comes out pretty strong too. I think that no matter how you angle or possition that tube, there's pressure in the exhaut....and high pressure goes to low pressure any way it can.

SiR Kid

MAYBE if you put the vacuum source line in at an ANGLE it'll create the vacuum needed because the exhaust isn't goin to try to go back UPSTREAM nto the vacuum source line....

yeah, I know I'm on crack

1fstevo

I see what you saying. And I see what earl is saying too. I have a breather filter on my valve cover too and I had no problem ever since I put it on. I actually have no oil coming out the breather so I assuming I have good rings. Alot of people have problems with oil coming out of the breather while boosting, only happen on turbocharged hondas.
The exhaust idea I think it'll work but not quite too sure about muffled exhaust system or not. I guess the one way valve is to help exhaust coming back to the vacuam source when there is back pressure by lifting off throttle.
I'll just stick another catch can at the breather section to catch oil or else i'll just stick a long tube with a filter and run it all the way down under my car.
Thanks guys for the great discussions.

turboex

if you have a filter on your valve cover(k@n whatever), then the engine can suck in clean air when not in boost. However when you are in boost, no pressure in gong to enter the crank case because the pcv valve is also a check vavle and wont let the boost pressure in the engine. so all the air moving in and out due to piton travel and heat will both have to come out of the valve cover filter. So seeing oil on the little valve cover filter is no big deal for a turbo honda, the air has to escape somewhere when under boost right. just my .02