Boxer Rebellion

Hey Guys,

This is my first post here in the Honda Tech forums. I come from the world of classic 911 turbos. I did a turbo conversion on my '87 Porsche Carrera 2 years ago. It was a low boost (10 psi) setup in which I ran a Precision SC6162 ball bearing turbo, with a T3 .63 A/R turbine housing. It was a lot of fun, but I've since decided to bump it up to 18 psi, and the SC6162 with .63 A/R hot side is too restrictive in the upper RPMs for me to meet my 500 HP goal. I've been working with Precision and AMS in Chicago for advice on my new build. They've recommended the Precision HP6262 ceramic ball bearing turbo with a T4 .68 A/R hot side.

There aren't many p-car guys interested in buying a smaller turbo like my SC6162, so I thought I would post in the Honda forums to see what the interest is. The turbo has less than 1,000 miles on it, and basically looks brand new. I only ran it at 10 psi, so it was not pushed at all. It has a .60 A/R "E" compressor housing, with a 3" inlet and 2" outlet. The turbine housing is 4 bolt-T3 .63 A/R. The turbine outlet to the muffler is a 4 bolt configuration with a 3" in diameter (not V-band). Since it's a ball bearing turbo, it's water cooled. According to Precision's website, this turbo is rated up to 640 flywheel HP. I paid $1250 for this turbo brand new. I'll post some pics when I get home tonight.

Do you guys think there would be any interest in this turbo on these forums? What could I reasonably expect to get for it?

Thanks in advance for your input.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hi Boxer. This will probably get moved to the classified section of the forum if at all. Many forums don't allow for the sale of merchandise after only 1 post, for fear of loss of integrity of the site. (But it happened anyway). Though I am not a moderator, a moderator may be able to at least give you the guidelines of selling and either ask you to contribute a bit more, or move your inquiry to the classifieds.

Welcome, hope you stick around at least a little while and good luck to you.

Boxer Rebellion

Hi Shodan,

Thanks for the intro. I should have prefaced that I was unable to post in the classified section. I received instruction after signing up that I'm required to have 15 posts prior to posting in the classifieds.

Anyways, I hope you guys can help.

Thanks!
Andy

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ok. no problem. I had forgotten about that. The new Precision ball-bearing series is AIR COOLED, not water cooled

"Precision Turbo Dual Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbocharger
These units feature an air-cooled, ball bearing center housing rotating assembly. Dual, angular contact ceramic ball bearings are utilized for maximum durability and an increased thrust load. These units require the use of a 1/8” NPT to -4 AN male fitting on the oil feed side, which can be purchased separately from Precision Turbo (PFT047-3039). At this time, we do not feel it is necessary to use an external oil feed restrictor fitting. At the minimum, we recommend the use of a -10AN oil drain flange/line. This flange can be purchased separately from Precision Turbo (PTP074-2008). Water cooling is not required on these units.
***This unit has been sealed for quality purposes. Do not remove the factory oil feed restrictor fitting, or damage may result***

Because of the lack of movable air in the rear of the engine on those platforms, I'm a little concerned with running one of those units in that particular application Porsche. This is where Garrett may be a better option in this case.

Boxer Rebellion

Interesting - didn't realize it was considered "air cooled"

I'm not sure that the turbo positioning in 911s is going to be any better/worse than most front engine cars. My turbo hung behind the engine toward the driver's side corner - just before the bumper. At speed, it gets loads of air flow by it from underneath the car. Granted it's not getting forced air like a front mounted intercooler. Are many turbo'd Hondas getting forced air directly at the turbo?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Some are. IF the person configures their intake that way. Regardless, it is getting more airflow to the engine bay than your configuration, but that is still a concern with the air-cooled CHRAs from my experience. Even in a front engine application, I don't believe there is enough air-flow for these cartridges. But I must admit, this is only by speculation, I'm just too concerned to take that leap to try them, because as a matter of physics, water is just performs a much better job of dissipation of heat than air ever could.

Boxer Rebellion

It's my understanding that the ceramic ball bearing turbos produce less heat, eliminating the need for water cooling.

Regardless, is there any interest in a Precision SC6162 ball bearing turbo? Anybody using one of these today?

EM2Civic

I have a buddy with an 86 carrera with 3,2 bored out to 3.3l making 680hp/580tq here's a quick description. I'm sure he'd gladly help you with your build.

681bhp/580tq-3.3litre pistons/cylinder kit, GT2 cams, HD valve springs with Ti retainers, 935 oil pump, ARP head studs and rod bolts, twin turbo conversion, T3/T4 hybrids, a few ?tricks?, G50 transmission conversion with custom lightweight flywheel and puck clutch, Koni adjustable dampers, etc...

Should be rather easy to get rid of your precision sc61 a bunch of ppl use them on here and they usually fetch around 500$ depending on condition of the turbo.

Boxer Rebellion

Hi there - thanks for the info on your buddy's car. Sounds like a real monster! I wonder if he's on the Pelican Parts forums? A lot of those guys have been very helpful with my project.

Thanks for the reference point on the SC61 turbo. Glad to hear there's a market for them here. I'll try to post some pictures of the turbo tonight.

Poootie

i really like this Turbo. Had the EXACT same one on my car and it worked like a champ (i actually did not run it water cooled.)..Made welll over 550whp and went a best of 10.6@137mph

The .63 back was a lil small , but made great power. Could have used a .82

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ceramics have had a nice redesign over the last 15 years. Everything from RayJay turbo used as upgrades for the 280Z in the late 80s to the older ball-bearing Turbonetics systems of the 90s used ceramic bearings. But for maxium efficiency, they still need water to be at their best. See, back in the day, the bearings would fracture and literally dis-integrate over time. In fact, the Turbonetics versions still use water as the best way to cool these systems. You just can't beat the heat dissipation effect that water has on exothermic reactions. Think of the inefficiencies that Air-cooled VWs had to put up with for years and years. They're even still used, but its not the best physical and engineering design.

Boxer Rebellion

Shodan, thanks for the wealth of info. Do you know what the comparable Turbonetics ceramic ball bearing, water-cooled turbo would be to the Precision HP6262?

Boxer Rebellion

Glad to hear another plug for my SC6162! Is it common for a lot of honda guys not to run ball bearing turbos water cooled?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

very common to run only oil-cooled turbochargers. I'll see about finding the equivalent turbonetics turbo

Poootie

coolent temps would run a bit higher when it was water cooled (i assume due to hot fluid returning back to teh Rad from the Turbo. It could have also been a combo of bad thermastat and or crystalized antifreeze build up in the waterjacket of the motor)..

Either way, one day while putting the car back together , i just installed the Turbo oil cooled, and i havent had a temp issue since. At the time i didnt drive the car as often to worry about having to cool the turbo properly. (That exact turbo is now on a BMW making a lil over 500wrhp and daily driven, still only oil cooled.)

Boxer Rebellion

Shodan, I think it might be the Turbonetics 62-1 turbo? It looks like it's got the T4 hot side, ceramic ball bearing, optional water cooling, 62 mm turbine and compressor wheel, 4" inlet & 2.5" outlet on compressor housing... The only thing I can't glean from their website is what size turbine housings they offer and whether they have the optional anti-surge compressor housing. It looks like they're priced about $150 cheap on ebay than the Precision HP6262.

Anybody aware of any noteable differences between these two turbos?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well, the physical size is about the same in the inducer, but the exducer of the wheel between the two is completely different. Not only that, but you must remember that the aerodynamics between the Precision and the old 62-1 are completely different as well. Precisions overall are much more efficient than the Turbonetics 62-1 by far.

In addition. the 62-1 came in 3 turbine wheel choices, O trim (slightly larger than a "stage 3") , P-trim (similar to a 65mm turbine wheel /shaft), and Q trim (bigger than a P-trim). Considering that you're in a T4 divided housing which could fit all three, one can't compare the two turbochargers to be anywhere close to performing similarly.

Comparison

62-1 compressor wheel
Inducer 2.441" (62mm)
Exducer 3.0" (76.2mm)

Precision 6262
Inducer 2.48 (62mm)
Exducer 3.24" (82mm)

Boxer Rebellion

Understood. What would you say is Turbonetics competitive alternative to the Precision HP6262 then?

Boxer Rebellion

Does anyone know what the Turbonetics equivalent to the Precision HP6262 is?

Boxer Rebellion

Bump. Does anyone know what the Turbonetics equivalent to the Precision HP6262 is?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There isn't one. Except for the GTK series. The only other journal bearing version of that billet 6262 is the GT35 Reaper.

In the GTK series, only the GTK-550. those are $1700. there's other alternatives to that, and without waiting for the availability of the GTX-midframe series

Boxer Rebellion

Thank you, Shodan. I appreciate the input.