Go Back  Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion > Honda and Acura Technical Forums > Forced Induction
Reload this Page >

EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

 
Old 01-21-2019, 05:56 PM
  #1  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
theYBLEGAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 503
Default EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

In pursuit of cooler temps.

I have a ramhorn and a half rad. B16. GT28 BB. I hardly run any boost, ~8psi. Block is .25 over, stock sleeves, ~11:1 comp cast pistons.

At Gingerman Raceway, in July at WMHM, I get about 5 good laps before it gets to 210f. Pretty much since going turbo years ago I've been trying to quell the heat. Timing is reasonable. It's mostly ambient temps, engine makes too many BTUs to lose them on 80 day. From dump tube soak into the rad fix, water meth injection, oil cooler addition, I'm out of things to do.

Except swap the ramhorn for a log mani, and run a full rad. I need a non-cast because I run an external vband tial.

Anyone running a non-cast log? Do they make less heat? Do they withstand vibrations better than ramhorn? (I've fixed my ramhorn maybe 4 times now)

Opinions on schedule 40 mani? http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/goautoworks-log-manifold.html (they brought this back last month!!)

Other manufacturer recommendations?

Opinions/exp on fitment/function full width rad on a turbo EK?

I miss romping lap after lap when it was NA. But I've had the car for 14 years, I need the turbo power and I can't go back lol.

Pics for Oogles

theYBLEGAL is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 06:10 PM
  #2  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,161
Default re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by theYBLEGAL View Post
In pursuit of cooler temps.

I have a ramhorn and a half rad. B16. GT28 BB. I hardly run any boost, ~8psi. Block is .25 over, stock sleeves, ~11:1 comp cast pistons.

At Gingerman Raceway, in July at WMHM, I get about 5 good laps before it gets to 210f. Pretty much since going turbo years ago I've been trying to quell the heat. Timing is reasonable. It's mostly ambient temps, engine makes too many BTUs to lose them on 80 day. From dump tube soak into the rad fix, water meth injection, oil cooler addition, I'm out of things to do.

Except swap the ramhorn for a log mani, and run a full rad. I need a non-cast because I run an external vband tial.

Anyone running a non-cast log? Do they make less heat? Do they withstand vibrations better than ramhorn? (I've fixed my ramhorn maybe 4 times now)

Opinions on schedule 40 mani? http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/goautoworks-log-manifold.html (they brought this back last month!!)

Other manufacturer recommendations?

Opinions/exp on fitment/function full width rad on a turbo EK?

I miss romping lap after lap when it was NA. But I've had the car for 14 years, I need the turbo power and I can't go back lol.

Pics for Oogles

I haven't run a cast manifold since my GReddy manifold over 20 years ago. (Fellow Gingerman Junky). Ran with a Rev Hard and JDL AUTO DESIGN with Koyo half sized radiator.

I'm now going with a 3/4 radiator using a LoveFab Mini-me EQ., but that's my personal choice.

Having said all that, I believe your move to a tubular log for your GT28R is a wise one. You can still use a half sized radiator, but you need to change to a Koyo 1570, SPAL 13" Puller fan , and a wrapped tubular log manifold, using Toyota coolant / water wetter mix. I don't get any higher than 95c even after 10 session laps...

Google does help, but you have to more specific for your search with road races... POWERNEEDY is the key word to find that answer.
TheShodan is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:53 AM
  #3  
Honda-Tech Member
 
extremeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Posts: 448
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

I used an air water separator on my setup (although not road-racing specific) feeding back into the coolant overflow bottle which really helped combat temperatures as well.

extremeracer is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 06:32 AM
  #4  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Chance EG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,605
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

InlinePRO makes a top shelf, cast stainless steel log manifold that's been proven to perform well up to power levels far higher than what a GT28 could put out. I've never seen or heard of one failing/breaking either.

Comes with a standard 38mm flange though, so you'd need an adapter for the wastegate. They also make the same model in iron for $100 cheaper, but I'd stick with stainless personally.

InlinePRO Stainless steel B-series T3 manifold B-series T3 AC Stainless - Inline Performance Products

Swirl pot is a good idea for a car on the track, as Extreme is suggesting. What fan are you running? SPAL fan + a relay kit is what you need.

I'm also nitpicking at this point, but you could try closing even that small gap you have between the rad support and the radiator. A little bit of air could be shooting that gap and traveling back along the hood rather than actually hitting the rad itself.
Chance EG is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 01:36 PM
  #5  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: toledo
Posts: 1,292
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

What kinda fan are you using now. You could run a full core radiator modified so that the top of the radiator is under where the hood latch would be. The radiator would tilted forward at the top. Then theres the sirocco radiator setups. Your definitely need to do some ducting tho.


and what kinda spark plugs do you run
ls joker is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 07:01 PM
  #6  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Cole D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dirty south
Posts: 2,235
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Installing a turbo kit at this time. I ditched the Koyo and decided to run a CSF civic radiator with thermal dispersant coating and too combat radiating heat I chose to Inconel wrap all the hot parts. Hopefully these changes do the trick. Will post some pics later.
Cole D is offline  
Old 01-23-2019, 05:45 AM
  #7  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,161
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by Cole D View Post
Installing a turbo kit at this time. I ditched the Koyo and decided to run a CSF civic radiator with thermal dispersant coating and too combat radiating heat I chose to Inconel wrap all the hot parts. Hopefully these changes do the trick. Will post some pics later.
you kinda went backwards on the radiator. I've run both, and the koyo outperformed the CSF by far. Even with the coating (cerakote)
TheShodan is offline  
Old 01-23-2019, 06:27 AM
  #8  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Balor_Gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 807
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Just get some IC water spray and uae it on the radiator. Other that that hood vents help a TON and
some kind of aluminum heat shield to not let heat hit the rad.
Balor_Gr is offline  
Old 01-23-2019, 06:29 AM
  #9  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Balor_Gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 807
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

And no dont go cast super short mani on a GT28 on 11:1 cast pistons.
Balor_Gr is offline  
Old 01-23-2019, 07:54 AM
  #10  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,161
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
Just get some IC water spray and uae it on the radiator. Other that that hood vents help a TON and
some kind of aluminum heat shield to not let heat hit the rad.
Use the IC spray for what it's for. The IC. That way he can cool down the intake charge, which more directly would affect cooler water temperatures as opposed to spraying the Radiator (Ask me how I know.. )

Originally Posted by Balor_Gr View Post
And no dont go cast super short mani on a GT28 on 11:1 cast pistons.
Absolutely 100% agreed. If you're going that high of a compression, use a real piston for the purpose. You'll thank yourself 100 times more later.

TheShodan is offline  
Old 01-23-2019, 05:56 PM
  #11  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Cole D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dirty south
Posts: 2,235
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
you kinda went backwards on the radiator. I've run both, and the koyo outperformed the CSF by far. Even with the coating (cerakote)
Did you document the testing. How did you come to that conclusion? Pics of my new setup

Thermal Dispersant coating
Cole D is offline  
Old 01-24-2019, 04:24 AM
  #12  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,161
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

We raced them both on the half sized radiator. (Not to be confused with the full sized version that Boersma Racing used). This was right when CSF came out with the half sized radiator a while back. We had 98*C-100*C after 8-10 laps vs. 93*C-95*C. We went back to the half-sized Koyo with the better coolant / water wetter mixture for the rest of 2014-2015. Now we're abandoning half-sized altogether.
TheShodan is offline  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:05 AM
  #13  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Balor_Gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 807
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Use the IC spray for what it's for. The IC. That way he can cool down the intake charge, which more directly would affect cooler water temperatures as opposed to spraying the Radiator (Ask me how I know.. )
Yeah maybe a small injector to spray some mist on the rad andthen let it evaporate to cool. I remember someone doing it on a hillclimb car but im not sure.
It probably needs to be more sophisticated yeah
Balor_Gr is offline  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:52 PM
  #14  
Honda-Tech Member
 
turbociv910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: expensive land, usa
Posts: 2,448
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

guy named don like 10 years ago shared his road race track car cooling woes.. full size radiator, coated and wrapped manifold and low boost (7 psi).. a half sizewill not last a 30 minute session no matter what he did.
turbociv910 is offline  
Old 01-26-2019, 04:11 AM
  #15  
Honda-Tech Member
 
The sweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: IKEA Land
Posts: 507
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Yes roadracing a half rad with FI is kind of hard.. I have tested a few.. and koyo race version was the best one. A hi flow fan like the 13" spal that draws something like 20A is not to be confiused with the other ones. Do some sheet metal work to direct air to the rad. If it is to much holes around it it creates a pressure cusion in front of the rad and most flow will go around it. Also a shroud for the fan on the backside of the rad can be a good thing. Add something like waterwetter to the coolent. Add a lower temperature thermostat and a higher pressure radiator cap. A good size oilcooler with thermostat control and the factory water oil heat exchanger.. A ecu controlled electric waterpump will also help.. I highly recomend the davis craig system that controlls the waterpump rpm and fan based on coolant temp. It also frees up som hp. A bigger rad is the best way but not always possible.. I ended up putting a large one in the rear bumper along with custom aluminium pipeing and the davis craig pump system in series with a half size in the front. I made a bigger overflow tank also. No racing experiance on that yet but I doubt it will be any problems accept bleeding air out. I push the fluid throu with big pool waterpump and large bucket and let it circulate until there is no airbubbles. take the external pump off and then bleed the normal way.

I cant see how a turbo manifold with worse flow will cool things down.. Do you refer to heat that radiates from the manifold? That can be taking care of with with all kinds of heat wraps etc.. As low exhaust back pressures as you can get is what you want to keep the engine temps down.

Last edited by The sweed; 01-26-2019 at 04:27 AM.
The sweed is offline  
Old 01-26-2019, 04:54 AM
  #16  
Honda-Tech Member
 
turboLScrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bowling Green, ky, USA
Posts: 572
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

What about running a twin fan system, a push/pull front and back of the radiator? Add water wetter also.
turboLScrx is online now  
Old 01-26-2019, 11:31 AM
  #17  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Balor_Gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 807
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by The sweed View Post
Yes roadracing a half rad with FI is kind of hard.. I have tested a few.. and koyo race version was the best one. A hi flow fan like the 13" spal that draws something like 20A is not to be confiused with the other ones. Do some sheet metal work to direct air to the rad. If it is to much holes around it it creates a pressure cusion in front of the rad and most flow will go around it. Also a shroud for the fan on the backside of the rad can be a good thing. Add something like waterwetter to the coolent. Add a lower temperature thermostat and a higher pressure radiator cap. A good size oilcooler with thermostat control and the factory water oil heat exchanger.. A ecu controlled electric waterpump will also help.. I highly recomend the davis craig system that controlls the waterpump rpm and fan based on coolant temp. It also frees up som hp. A bigger rad is the best way but not always possible.. I ended up putting a large one in the rear bumper along with custom aluminium pipeing and the davis craig pump system in series with a half size in the front. I made a bigger overflow tank also. No racing experiance on that yet but I doubt it will be any problems accept bleeding air out. I push the fluid throu with big pool waterpump and large bucket and let it circulate until there is no airbubbles. take the external pump off and then bleed the normal way.

I cant see how a turbo manifold with worse flow will cool things down.. Do you refer to heat that radiates from the manifold? That can be taking care of with with all kinds of heat wraps etc.. As low exhaust back pressures as you can get is what you want to keep the engine temps down.
I agree with the sweed . Airlining the radiaotor is the key. Plus some sheet metal to block radiation in the engine bay and some hood vents for the air to ESCAPE not go in
Balor_Gr is offline  
Old 01-26-2019, 05:02 PM
  #18  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,161
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post
What about running a twin fan system, a push/pull front and back of the radiator? Add water wetter also.
no. You'll actually make things worse. Sweed had the correct idea and parts
TheShodan is offline  
Old 01-27-2019, 12:03 AM
  #19  
Honda-Tech Member
 
turbociv910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: expensive land, usa
Posts: 2,448
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post
What about running a twin fan system, a push/pull front and back of the radiator? Add water wetter also.
fans become a restriction and a lower speed than you would think. A good inlet shroud setup on a race car with no fans at all is very common.
turbociv910 is offline  
Old 01-27-2019, 05:19 AM
  #20  
Honda-Tech Member
 
turboLScrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bowling Green, ky, USA
Posts: 572
Default Re: EK B16 exhaust manifold for road race suggestions - need to cool things down!

Originally Posted by turbociv910 View Post
fans become a restriction and a lower speed than you would think. A good inlet shroud setup on a race car with no fans at all is very common.
That’s why I had put a ?. Lol. I was just grasping on ideas on how to resolve a overheating issue. I can’t make mine overheat and I have the close to the same setup with half the radiator he does. I have used water wetter in my boat generator and that helped a lot and kept it within tolerance on those hot summer days
turboLScrx is online now  
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: