b16ahybrid

I just got back from runing my car on the dyno. I was dissapointed to say the least. I managed to put down 199hp and 155lbs of tq @.65 bar .
Everything looked good up until about 5,250rpm where the air/fuel ratio went super rich. It wouldn't read richer then 10:1 so from 5,250 rpm up to redline it read 10:1 (but i'm sure it was richer then that).
The power started to drop from 5,000rpm to about 5,750rpm then it picked back up slowly.The 199hp was at 7,000rpm (above that it got really choppy looking reving any futher was pointless).The car pulls nice and smoothly up to redline (the guy even commented on how smooth the car pulls).
My fuel set-up is as follows
holley 255lph fuel pump h/p
vortec 6:1 fmu
rc 310cc injectors
aem fpr(36psi)
spark is
msd 6al
i had zex plugs in because i couldn't find ngk's in time
12 degrees of timing.
everything else is stock.
I cranked the fpr down to about 32psi from 45psi in hopes of trying to lean it out a tad bit but it still read 10:1 or richer.
I just bought a new cap and rotor, i'm about to order some new wires and waiting on some ngk's.
Any sugestions/idea's, help anything.....
My only thought is that i'm not getting a good enough spark to ignite all the fuel so it comes out as extreemly rich. I thought runing a 6:1 fmu would be pushing it but i know a 4:1 would indicate something wrong (seems like most run 8:1 fmu)

DLB1994

get a s-afc or v-afc


[Modified by DLB1994, 11:38 PM 2/10/2003]

b16ahybrid

How's that going to help?
If i'm runing a 6:1 fmu why would it be so rich? I think the v-afc would only mask the problem.I'm thinking that there is a bigger problem at hand. My overall fuel pressure is under 100psi.
I get what your thinking but wouldn't i want to burn as much fuel and air to make the most power? If i pull even more fuel it would be like runing less boost. Am i making any sense? hell who know's i'm open for anything because rite now i' lost..thanks for the sugestion

Jared

all of those are bandaids that mask the problem, fmus are crap, vafcs are crap, get a standalone if you really want to tune it dead nuts on, otherwise, get a vafc or safc and lean it out on the top end.

b16ahybrid

If those are band-aids then going that route is just masking the band-aid.
Eventually when other priorities are are taken care of i will be going stand-alone but for the time being i need to find the problem and fix it.

ekb18c

Your problem is your fuel system. You don't have anythign to adjust besides the fuel pressure regulator.

Get yourself a Hondata, get it tuned and call it a day.

swrdply400mrelay

Exactly. This is why everyone says to get a standalone; you get precise tuning. FMU is pretty much just a "generic" fuel map. Also you have larger than stock injectors with nothing to control them with. Add that to a FMU with still nothing to control them with and you have your answer to your fuel problem.

wickedxboi

you could use the vafc to turn down the injector pulse during the areas that your running rich, which is around 5000-5700. if your short on money, maybe look into the SMC.

b16ahybrid

ok I know going stand-alone is one solution (the best solution) but what makes my set-up differ from say a drag or revhard kit?
I know they make more then 200whp using a fmu and fuel pump. What about all the other people putting down 250hp 260hp etc using fmu's. I'm not looking for precise fuel managment at this time, just something to get me by within reason.
I've seen it done so many times before, even with stock injectors and a 12:1 fmu. thanks for your help so far guy's .......

ekb18c

it's your fmu. Switch the diaphram out and put 8:1 in.

b16ahybrid

That would make it run even richer. I had the 8:1 in when i first installed the turbo. Once vtec kicked in the car would stop accelerating because of to much fuel.I switched to a 6:1 and now it accelerates fine up to redline, it's just rich as hell though and robbing power.

My only thoughts are that i need to replace my plugs,wires,cap and rotor. Then see how it runs.If it still runs the same i guess my next option would be to switch to the 4:1 fmu which makes no sense because most everybody runs a 8:1...

My other thought is that my ecu is allowing the injectors to dump way to much fuel (by longer pulse width) once vtec hits. the air/fuel ratio is fine up to vtec. it's about perfect until about 3psi. actually once boost comes on it slowly goes up from 12.8:1 up to 11.8:1 then vtec kicks in and it goes strait to 10.0:1 or richer (won't register any richer then 10.0:1).
I guess at this point anything is possible so i'm open to any suggestions......keep e'm coming....

ekb18c

What I meant to say was fix your problem and then go back to a 8:1 disk.

Do everythign logically.
Change one variable at a time to pin point the problem.

b16ahybrid

Ok for a min i thought you meant go back to the 8:1 to fix the problem.
Thats about where i'm at. I know i need new wires for sure (they are probably the ones that came on the engine) so they are a must, the rotor looed pretty worn so it's a good idea to replace that and my plugs foul very fast so they are in need of replacement too.
I just hope by replacing those items the car won't run so rich (i would actually be very happy if it ran lean because then i know i'm burning all the fuel) and i can easily add more.
Thanks...
btw any recomendations on a good plug wire for the money? i'm looking at either msd or magnecore. I used to have a set of magnecore wires for my sohc and was very happy with them (well they gave me no problems) so i'm leaning that way i'm just not liking the $80 price tag...

fsp31

>>all of those are bandaids that mask the problem, fmus are crap, vafcs are crap<<

... And turbos are really bandaids for the fact that Hondas don't make **** for horsepower. I've seen boosted Hondas running some combination of "bandaids" with A/F charts so pretty they make the standalone guys get all spoogey.

glagola1

I am getting the feeling that you are really looking for a decent temporary fix. I think the VAFC is your best bet. You could tune out the extra fuel by trimming the injector pulse width.

I highly suggest against trying to add more spark to burn the extra fuel. That isn't going to work. Air is the only other ingrediant needed to burn that extra fuel. You aren't adding the air so don't try coaxing the fuel to light.

Good luck. Tuning is such a bitch when you use "band aids".

TriK

12 degree seem a little low.. 14 maybe

b16ahybrid

I get what your saying, but how else can the extra fuel be explained? I know runing a 4:1 fmu and 310cc injectors is not rite when most people run a 8:1 with 310's with no problem...
I guess there is only one way to find out and that is to do the tune up, if it's still rich then i know i need to look into runing the 4:1 and maybe even a v-afc to len it out more.....
the turbo is a t3t40E .57trim 63 ar so i know there is enough air being provided.
I don't know if this make any difference but the ecu is a 93 gs-r.

b16ahybrid

That was done because of detonation with the old turbo.I have not changed that yet because i won't be able to hear detonation until i get my dump tube welded back into the dp. But yeah 14 degree's is where i had it before

1fstevo

If you are looking for a quick fix, get the Vafc or Safc. It's too expensive to switch Fmu around to test it out plus you are just moving the fuel curve as a whole up and down instead of individual rpm fuel trimming. Let's say what if you ran into a problem like too rich before 5000 rpm and too lean over 5000 rpm? What fmu you going to use now? Vafc or Safc will solve your problem. But!!! I think there is more to it than just fueling.

b16ahybrid

I have all the fmu disks (4:1, 6:1, 8:1, 10:1, 12:1) so thats not costing me anything.
The problem sems to be a whole chunk of the fuel curve (at least as far as i can tell).

Thats what i'm thinking, and thats what i'm trying to get sugestion on. ....


I would just lean it out with my aem fpr in the low end and then run a higher fmu disk. but that's if boost came on at 5krpm. I see what your saying about tuning at different rmp increments. A v-afc would be very useful but i think a general (basic) amount of tuning can be acopmlished with the fmu.

I guess another idea would be to remove boost from the equation. Would it still run extreemly rich once vtec kicked in? looking at the curve the air fuel ratio gradually gets richer from about 3k rpm up to vtec (5,250rpm) then makes a big jump to extreemly rich...

I may just need to do this tune up (in need of it anyway) and then suck it up and buy a v-afc. I guess i'll find out soon.

JRSCCivic98

Yeah, I know why it's so rich... First of all I'm guessing you're still using the B16A motor right...? Second of all, you're running a B18C ECU with 310's. If your motor was a B18C running this ECU with 310's you'd probably be ok... why you ask? Simple... the B18 likes to burn more fuel in VTEC then the B16's do. You have simple choices to make here... Get a smaller diaphram to lower to 4:1, switch to 280cc injectors and switch back to 8:1 diaphram, or change your ECU to a B16 unit. If you don't want to do either of those... get a standalone or something to change the long-*** pulsewidths of that GSR ECU up high. Oh yeah, almost forgot... keep in mind that the older OBD1 GSR ecu's pushed a bit more fuel then the OBD2 ones... not that it matters, but something to keep in mind.

If this is not what you want to hear... try the simple fix... I've seen similar fuel problems that were because the ECU was on the fritz. RESET your ECU. Pull all power to it for about 5 min and then plug it back in and idle the car for 15 min. You know the drill. This will cost you the least money... try it first... you've tried everything else.

Hope this helps...

b16ahybrid

Yep...

Good to know, that explaines why when vtec kicks in the air/fuel ratio dives fast.


Have one in the garage that i will be using if the problem is still there once i do the tune up.



Greatly...Thanks for the info .......

b16ahybrid

up