Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

This is just a small thread to thank Shawn Church( Church Automotive Tuning) and Hondata ( Matt and Derrick?) who helped me cure and troubleshoot the infamous P72 hesitiation problem between 3k and 4k RPM.

I am currently running a JRSC'd B18C1 in my Civic and I had my Hondata S100 with boost tuned at Church Automotive after another shop local to me in San Diego(AEBS) almost destroyed my motor due to a faulty wideband sensor at thier dyno facilities. After I got my Civic tuned with Shawn, I was extremely happy with the results and informed by Shawn himself that if I had any problems, to contact him and I would be helped.

After a few months, I swapped out my DC header with a Kamikaze 2.5 and matched my exhaust to further increase flow and that was when I started noticing major hesitation problems and wild check engine lights. I contacted Shawn and he informed that I could bring my car back in for some testing. I drove back up to Torrance from San Diego and he burned me 2 new roms and a third rom to test and make sure the hestitation was going away. I tested these roms for a couple of months, running each rom with thru a couple of tanks of gas. Every week or so I would contacted Shawn and tell him my results which still included the hesitation and some bogging and some errant check engine lights.

A few weeks ago, Shawn contacted me and informed me that Hondata in Torrance wanted to test my car and see if they could fix the hesitation problem. I dropped off my car at Hondata and left it there for a week while they (mostly Matt and the rest of the Hondata guys) worked on my car doing real world testing and datalogging and a few part throttle dyno runs to determine what was wrong. During this time, they found a couple of bad parts I had in my car that I didn't even know about. They found my TPS sensor had corrosion on the plug which was causing some of the check engine lights and I also had an O2 sensor that was on it's last electronic leg. Hondata replaced the O2 sensor and fixed my TPS sensor for free and continued testing my vehicle. During this time, they kept in contact with me and informed me of the problems they found and how they fixed them for my piece of mind.

I picked up my car on a Sunday and during that time they were closed. They( Matt and Derrick ..I think I got his name wrong.) opened the shop and waited for me to arrive and pick up my car, then they took me for about an hours worth of real-time datalogging prior to me leaving to show me what they did and how they fixed everything in the Hondata system. They explained to me nearly every aspect of thier troubleshooting and made me feel quite at ease. Matt was very helpful in showing me how raising the VTEC engagement point from 2500rpm to 3000rpm will alleviate many problems in hesitation. All this on thier day off!!!!

All in all, there was nothing wrong with the programming of the Hondata system, but a series of parts in conjunction with malfunctioning parts which caused the bogging and hesitation. It turns out that my cooling system in conjuction with my O2 sensor and TPS were the main players in this problem. My Fluidyne radiator, Mugen thermostat, and Mugen Fan Switch were making my car run at about 170 to 175 degrees and no hotter than that. Apparently, the motor needs to warm up to about 195 to 205 for optimal performance and these parts were not allowing it to even warm up to operating temp!!! So now I will be re-installing an OEM thermostat with an OEM fanswitch to elleviate this quirck. I want to let everyone know that having great tuners and companies that believe in their products can do great things together...

Thanks again to Shawn Church and all the guys at Hondata...keep up the great work!!!

Brian

falcongsr

cool

alpha

Damn ... If that's not customer service I don't know what is

InfamousGSR

Awesome you just saved me 160$ on buying a 160 degree thermastat. I have a JRSC waiting to be installed along with hondata s200. Thanks for your input

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

Anything I can do to help....

psileepR

Im happy to see that at least 1 case was cured

Shawn is the man

Nextelbuddy

well i am glad you got yours fixed but mine is annoying me bad. i am running a obd1 p72 with hondata and i have the4 hesitation you are tlaking about. my motor is a 2001 and everythig is OEM on it thermostat, fan switch, and i just replaced the O2 sensor. also my vtec engagement was never put as low as 2500-3500 rpms. and i stil have the hesitation. i dunno what to think maybe u just got lucky.

oemDC2

I too had my car tuned by Shawn, and he's one of the best. I asked him about the bug situation and he told me that once hondata figures out a solution, he will fix it for free. Shawn at CAT gets a


Modified by oemDC2 at 2:55 AM 2/5/2004

grndcont

it's not just limited to the p72, me and my roommate have p28's with the same hesitation. (if this has already been said\discussed about the p28 then my apology's, i was just adding this to broaden problem.)

espanol

i say hondata kicks *** at least 5 times a day.

markaria

I too have this hesitation problem @ about 13 psi vac -especially in 5th gear (about 3000rpm).
Mine is a p28/s100b

boostismycrack

I have this exact same problem, slight hesitation or miss at part throttle around 3k rpm in 5th gear. I have a 95 gsr computer with s/100b. I have been pulling my haair out changing parts left and right! I hope someone can help.

redsidriver

wow i have a 2000 si and i just installed my hondata to go with my jrsc and just in case i ever run into something like that its good know there will be good people willing to help my ***

accordfreak

i doubt everybody with a hondata has a problem with their cooling system or sensors. ..

i don't get how it's fixed yet.

i have the hesitation problem on my p28 s200b @ 3800/3900 rpms.. stock cooling system, new o2 sensor.

11psiTurboSI

[QUOTE=accordfreak

i have the hesitation problem on my p28 s200b @ 3800/3900 rpms.. stock cooling system, new o2 sensor.[/QUOTE]

Me too... On my 00 Civic SI

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

It could be a series of parts or maybe just a little bit more tuning is needed. I always thought it was something to do with the Hondata system, but I was proven wrong and shown how a little extra fine tuning and replacement of conflicting parts will cure that.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Any of you on the Hondata board? There was a big thread [or three] over there on this. Can't remember if anyone posted a resolved answer like this though.

falcongsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Damn ... If that's not customer service I don't know what is </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah its nice and all, but what about the dozens, if not hundreds, of cars with the same problem. is hondata going to spend a few days full-time on each one?

mike1114

iTrader: (1)

Here's what I have come up with on fixing the hesitation cause I to have it (P72)
I have not tried either of these, just gathered from reading:

Richen up columns 4-5 on the fuel map.

Use P28 basemap and save the dyno'd P72 settings over top of the basemap.

If someone could try these and let us know that would be great.

int3gra

Mostly all car parts get worn by wear and tear, most ppl dont want to realize that. glad your problem got solved, im notepading this one

Turboteggy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blue-Civic-Hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They found my TPS sensor had corrosion on the plug and I also had an O2 sensor that was on it's last electronic leg.

Matt was very helpful in showing me how raising the VTEC engagement point from 2500rpm to 3000rpm will alleviate many problems in hesitation.

My Fluidyne radiator, Mugen thermostat, and Mugen Fan Switch were making my car run at about 170 to 175 degrees and no hotter than that. Apparently, the motor needs to warm up to about 195 to 205 for optimal performance and these parts were not allowing it to even warm up to operating temp!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I find it sad that this is labelled as a "Hondata hesitation" when the Hondata system obviously had nothing to do with it.

VTEC at 2500?

Maybe all you guys with the hesitation should read this post carefully and check your cars for similar problems. Might help solve this problem.

I have an OBD1, P28 Hondata equipped Integra, and have NEVER had a hesitation problem.

falcongsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turboteggy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Maybe all you guys with the hesitation should read this post carefully and check your cars for similar problems. Might help solve this problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what should all the people who do not have similar problems do? just asking. thats my last prod. i dont run hondata and i havent experienced the problem on my car so i'll shut up now.

quikB18B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah its nice and all, but what about the dozens, if not hundreds, of cars with the same problem. is hondata going to spend a few days full-time on each one?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah i got a little excited when is saw the thread title.
In this case you thought it was hondata causing the hesitation when it turned out to be other factors. I would have worded the title of the topic different, but glad you got your car fixed. Im getting tuned on saturday so well see if Jason can correct my hesitation.

Maybe we should start Hondata hesitiation anonymous thread

Ill start Hi my name is Iggy and my car has a hesitation problem

Turboteggy

^
Yup.

Hondata

This is a reasonably good example of how several problems all contributed a "hesitation" and all could be fixed.

The nearly dead rear O2 sensor was leaning the fuel (in closed loop)out when it should not have.
The car was not reaching operating temperature
The throttle position voltage was jumping around
The VTEC point was set a little low. (supercharged Hondas like a low VTEC point)


In datalogs we have been sent from out of state we have also seen:

- The intake air temperature sensor reading 240 plus F (it was faulty and would have cause leaning out)
- Fuel maps showing a sharp drop of the order of 10-15% over 100 RPM where the change should be only 2-3%. In both of these cases these problems need to be fixed and the cars retested.

Having said the above, we still want (and need) to see a vehicle that has a clear cut hesitation problem (and only one problem!).

oemDC2: Have you been in touch with us or brought your car to us to have a look at?

Again if you are in the LA area and are having problems call us and make an appointment to bring your car in for a couple of days.

- Doug



Modified by Hondata at 10:36 PM 2/5/2004