taco_hut

Before anyone else nitpicks, n.a.-t means aftermarket turbo kit or Frankenstein ****. Ya'l would know that if Hondas had boost from the factory. I mean the only boosted Honda on the market is the crZ which is actually sorta cool.. But my old *** civic will get better MPG if I waste the time making it a hybrid. Plus, it'l be faster If I throw a cheap *** turbo kit on my shotout(tm) b7

long story short, my motor is shotout(tm) and I bought a z6 to replace it. Whoever previously owned the car *that the z6 came out of* told the yard that it smoked and they didn't wanna fix it. Infact, there was hand written note in girly hand writing stating "its too Smokey to drive". Idk what's up with that, but I understand it I guess. The "I'm tired of wasting money on this old *** car" mentality.

I could easily burn a gallon of oil with my shotout(tm) engine in a day, it rolls coal like a diesel... *edit* yeah I know its not the same but if you saw you'd know why I say that. Its like a rotary with bad apex seals. People stop me to tell me my motor is gonna blow up, and I explain to them that IV driven it like that for over a thousand miles and that I'm working on fixing it.

anyway, here's the fun part

I want to have the z6 rebuilt so it lasts another 20 years. I plan on commuting to NYC erry day next year for several years. I want piece of mind. And I want a torque for every 10 lbs in my car. A horsepower for every 10, maybe 7.

I know if I do it right, it'l last. But IV never really thought about the Suzuki thing before.. Okay well **** that. I figured it was suppose to turn my d16 into a turbo motor, not a 7.5:1 uhm 1920 horseless carriage. I'm a firm believer that they should be high 8s low 9s. All the turbo cars IV driven were like that so there's good reason for it. And I'm a firm believer in overbuilding ****.

But g.N.A.R.ly over here wants me to believe higher c.r. Is a great idea. And I know it'l improve power thru out the band, but I'm real hesitant on that if I turbo it. I'm a firm believer in having conservative tunes, I like em like I like my womens. Easy, safe, cheap, retarded, and rich. All that good stuff.

1. If I get the 9:1s, with the flat valves the metal head gasket and the flat valves it"l practically be stock compression ratio right? It should be able to run on the p28 fuel map like that amiright? It'l basically function like a stock, but forged, z6. Ready for whatever i do to it.

2. are you ******* serious 7.5:1 thats seriously like stupid as **** i feel totally justified for saying Hondas aren't meant to turbo -_-

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Minor point of clarification: You aren't "rolling coal", you're burning oil. There's a big difference. One is (sometimes) a good sign, the other is never good. Also, what is "n.a-t" supposed to mean? If you're naturally aspirated, you don't have a turbo, and if you're turbocharged, you aren't naturally aspirated. You can't be both.

So you're willing to spend the time and money on upgrading your valvetrain, but want to run a cheap Vitara build? There are smart ways to build a motor, and then there's...what you're talking about. Using Vitara pistons essentially requires custom length rods. Without them, your CR will be abysmally low no matter what valves you use, which will turn your car into a moped out of boost, ruin your VE out of boost (which might make it fail a sniffer test), absolutely fry your gas mileage, and just generally make it an un-fun car to drive.

Do it once, do it right. Get yourself some Supertech 10.5:1 pistons, some Eagle rods, and the necessary bolts, gaskets, seals, bearings, and everything else for the motor. Have the block professionally cleaned and honed, and have the block and head both checked for trueness. Rebuild with forged components, toss a Disco Potato on it, and call it a day. You'll have a fun little 300+ WHP toy with more power in and out of boost that, if built and maintained properly, will last you well into the next decade or two, and the only thing that'll break the engine is a garbage tune, or a high powered rifle.

taco_hut

I dont want a high compression ratio with a turbo. I dont want 7.0/7.5 though thats just stupid. I did just check the calculator and I cannot understand why people ******* do this build or why its so popular. 7.5?? Thats over a point lower than a turbo motor should be. It would have less power than my shotout(tm) b7...

a turbo motor should be in the 8s, that way it can be easily, easily retarded while still running on pump gas. I need to beg my tuner to **** with the fuel map below 3000rpms I dont need to hand him the codes for my bank account because I ask him to do that and also have a difficult to tune high compression Honda n.a-t. Dyno time is expensive man..

sr20? 8.5
rb26dett? 8.5
2jz? 8.5 maybe 9
1.3b turbo? 9
whatever the **** else you want they're all around 8/9 not 7.5 like I said thats just stupid!

taco_hut

"my Honda will have torque"
hahaha look at that 7.3 that thing has torque at low RPMs, it'l hit fuel cut out before any Honda besides a GSR or v6 will make any toque.
"500 lb·ft (678 N·m) of torque at 1600 rpm"

but seriously thank you for pointing out how horrid that compression ratio is.. I think I'm gonna do forged rods and stock compression ratio. I figured it would be 8.5 not 7.5, why do people act like that Suzuki b.s is a good idea?

LTCxD2B

When did crz's come turbo? Rdx?

F22Master

What the **** kind of drugs is this guy on??

Schister66

Personally, I would go with a CR ~10:1. I just picked up a built Z6 with 10.5:1 Wiseco pistons/Scat rods because the previous owner "bought the wrong pistons" and decided it wasn't good for boost . It depends on your goals and the fuels available in your area, but i wouldnt ever go lower than 9.5:1 if i could help it.

Btw, if you want to skip building your engine, this fully built Z6 (stock sleeves, built head/bottom end) is for sale. I have no immediate need for it ... located in Minneapolis MN

taco_hut

The closest ethanol-serving station I'm aware of is quite a ride. I'd have to get a 50 gallon drum and a pump and that would suck. There is the possibility of using leaded, high octane gasoline but I think that's a worse idea.

what drugs are you guys on? There's an OEM supah charger for the hybrid crz starting model year 2013...... I never said turbo, I said boost. Besides that there's the city turbo but that's not American now is it? I read about a Japanese turbo civic, I read about the new direct injection turbo engines a while ago. Idk if we're gonna get em in America doe.

anywho I'm breaking it down now. Ima see what the machine shop says when I bring it there, if it absolutely needs to be bored I'm gonna have to keep driving my oil burner for a while and save up more money to buy nice pistons and rods. If it doesn't absolutely need a bore, I'm gonna simply get new bearings, put new rings in, and drive it as a stock motor and limit any sort of HP gains to 200, maybe 225 so i can have that 10lbs per hp thing i was talking about. So I dont feel like i'm pushing the motor too far. With forged internals id have to wait significantly longer before I can run it as a turbo.

I guess I'm gonna talk to some people who actually know how that fuel mapping ignition tabling nonsense works, see what they think about using 93 and how much compression would be acceptable without any risk to the engine itself.

I sort of get a kick out of ya'l tellin me I'm crazy while ya'l didnt even read what I wrote.

zerovandez

iTrader: (1)

^^ I read that you wrote "supah charger" lol!

In all seriousness, you got really good repsonses from some pretty reputable people around here. And good luck with "simply get new bearings...." and your build.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

We're reading everything you're writing, and telling you why your assumptions are wrong. You obviously aren't reading what we are telling you. I even addressed your compression ratio issue with the Vitara build, but you evidently decided to ignore that post.

Pro-tip: If you're the tl;dr type, then turbo isn't for you.

A turbo motor should be in the 8s? This isn't 1993 anymore. We have real engine management systems available, and they're cheap! No more FMU hacking, no more ramping fuel ratios, just good tuning and healthy engines. You can easily and safely run 10.5:1 on 93 with absolutely zero problems, if your tuner didn't get his laptop out of a crackerjack box. OEM turbo motors have lower compression ratios because the average OEM owner doesn't know how to take care of a car. Take the turbo off, and you just have a really shitty motor. When you're out of boost (read: below 3000 RPM, where you'll spend a lot of time on the highway), your engine might as well not have a turbo on it, from a power standpoint. Raise the compression a hair (10.5:1), and your motor will make more power out of boost (you'll be able to pass someone on the highway without having to wait for your turbo to spool), and it'll just make it an all-around more fun car to drive.

Listen to us. We know what we're talking about. We've been doing this a LOT longer than you have.

taco_hut

Sadly I cant get the crank pully off with my air gun, I think its because I'm using a shitty compressor. I'ma figure out a way get that crank pully bolt out, and see if I can tell exactly what's wrong with it. I dont wanna get my hopes up for nothing but I think IV found signs of overheating. The short block might not even needs to be touched o.O

either way I want to put new bearings and rings in it. If the leak down test shows leakage into the water jackets, I might just try popping a head gasket in there, then try running it. If it ends up just being a head gasket I will be very pleased*

p.s. IV been using a z6 for a while and I'm happy to have found another that should end up in better shape than my PoS shotout(tm) b7. Hopefully I'll be done messing with it by tonight and I can find a machine shop to help me diagnosis any possible problems with the short block by next Friday. I'm really hoping it doesn't turn out like my b7, where it needs to be rebuilt but it isn't a good enough core to actually have a nicely rebuilt motor..

I'm gonna read some more and see if I can come up with some relationships that I'm curious about. How much c.r. Effects pollution, how significantly the tune would need to be changed to support higher compression with boost on 93 octane and how much more it would be able to shine on higher octane gasoline

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

If the block is intact, the sleeves aren't cracked, and the mains are all there, it's a good enough core. Simple as that. The crank is also unique in that it has dual oil channels, so with the proper headwork and hardware, you can turn up the rev limiter a little bit. I'm not saying you can rev it out to 10k...but you can at least get it up a little past the 7200 stock.

When using a second-hand motor, you should ALWAYS do basic maintenance things. Replace all of your seals, gaskets, timing belt, water pump, and tensioner. That shouldn't even be a question. Since you want to boost it, and you're talking about some building, just go ahead and do it the right way. Pull the whole thing apart, replace every gasket and seal on the engine, and get some forged internals in there. You don't have to buy it all at once - I've probably spent close to $4000 on my engine/transmission, and I sure as hell didn't do it all in one fell swoop. Buy or borrow an engine rotisserie, stick the engine up on it, collect your parts, and build once you have everything. Remember, also, that there are other little costs that most people don't even think of when assembling an engine. Things like assembly lube, WD40, masking tape, paint (if you want to go that route), break-in oil, and break-in time on a dyno all add up quickly if you aren't expecting them.

Read the FAQ sticky. There is a LOT of information in there that will help you. Just get the "low compression for boost" idea out of your mind. That's the oldschool way of thinking. It isn't relevant, and it's the wrong way to do it now.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I'm still trying to figure out what I just read... I'd chime in but I'm on my phone and I think my reply would break the internet...

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

wantboost, I'm still not thoroughly convinced this guy isn't a troll. Only time will tell.

taco_hut

My airgun got stuck on the lowest torque setting cuz IR is crap. Its being shipped out for repair, i'ma go find another one to use.

NotARacist, there's a difference between what your doing and what I'm doing. I'm trying to replace a motor thats going to **** itself any time now, that burns a gallon of oil practically in a week. And it has all new seals yo

F22Master

So all you need is eagle rods and supertech 10.5:1 pistons. Easy.

ArniFPR

haha where is the like button :D

OneBadTurboCRV

Just ban him. The kid is obviously a troll spouting all kinds of nonsense from the 90's and early 00's... Obviously nobody does a Vitara build without custom length rods anymore. He wants is cheap, fast, and reliable - the biggest joke you can have. Spouts off V8 and other ricer **** like nobody here is into ANYTHING else besides Hondas. He is obviously clueless and just looking for some feathers to ruffle. Boring, NEXT!

Since I am SURE it needs to be spelled out for the OP:

Cheap - Fast - Reliable = You may only pick two.

If you want it to be cheap and fast, it won't be reliable.
If you want it to be cheap and reliable, it won't be fast.
If you want it to be fast and reliable, it won't be cheap.

AND before you cry about how you never said you didn't want it to be "fast" which is a subjective term anyways, you bring up the 10 lbs to every 1 HP like it actually means anything or does anything for the car. The power curve determines the car's power characteristics not how much horsepower it has.

Yeah, I am bored.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Also,and this is me being 100% honest, if you have to ask other people to decide what to do or you then you probably don't need to do it, or you already know your answer.

tony_2018

Check for the user in my quote and you'll find more b.s. that this guy never got done doing. Its like he ask for advice but on certain things and than tosses in a toyota brand in there, why he does that I have no clue. It just completely goes off topic because he keeps comparing a honda motor to a toyota motor. If he was serious about boosting than we would've seen that block taken apart by now, and in his old build thread. Which btw never progressed.

tony_2018

I notice he still hasn't answered you on this....

tony_2018

How much?

tony_2018

Schister66

PMd you

tony_2018

Damn......tempting........