Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I normally don't start a lot of topics here, and I know personally which ones I would use.. *cough* (Garrett) *cough*. But at the same time, many people run different types of intercoolers for a variety of reasons.

I'd like to see some intercoolers, whether they be custom end tanked, air-to-air, air-to-water, tube and varied-finned, bar & plate, etc. Let's make this forum back into tech-related material again, so that everyone can benefit.

Oh yeah, one last thing. I could give less than a crap about how little or how much you paid for it. I'm looking at design and efficiency of each kind from a variety of manufacturers. Do me a great favor.. Add some eye-candy to the mix will ya? And for god's sake, KEEP IT CLEAN!! No insulting one another....needlessly. :)

I'd like to see some options, opinions (read carefully of the difference boys & girls), and why you chose what you did BESIDE COST. I'll add some tech as we go along.. I don't care about that.. If you're broke, you're broke, no need to make a song about it.

So, who wants to start off?

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I had very little choice on mine due to size and location but I think it fits sweet right above the transmission. I'll add a scoop and maybe some protective sheet metal or fender liner to keep road debris from launching through it. It's not an over the top HP install so the size of the intercooler could be sacrificed...no idea what make or brand it is or where it's from. Greg fished around a great deal to find one that fit. I didn't want to pay for a custom one!

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...Mini-Turbo.jpg

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I think it reminds me of an OEM Subaru layout, and some of the Skoda compact turbos in Europe. It definitely needs a good scoop to exchange air, but at least the plumbing is nice and short and the tanks look decent (from this angle, anyway).

What type is it? Which company core?

Now THIS is how you start out a thread ;) !!

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I just have a cheap jdm sport fmic, the fins aren't very dense but the core is pretty good size, Im probably going to modify it to be a back door setup once I get the car back from paint so my charge pipes will be alot more direct. Im interested in seeing how the end tanks as well as in and out entrances of the intercooler can impact air velocity and what not. also I live in oregon were about the hottest we see is 90 degrees for maybe one week a year other then that its around 65 degrees most of the time and cold as crap in the winter.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0502022125.jpg

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Interesting. Now, I know your project "ebay runner---OMG YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!" (haha, that still kills me.. ;). But can you tell me if the JDM sport is a tube and fin and a bit close up of the fin design? I know they are in the "ebay" category of...well... frugality, but I'd like to see what they companies are trying to copy off of. I'm sure it works, I'd just like to see the visual efficiency of it.

Lookin' good so far.. C'mon guys.. Step up to the plate!!

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

to be honest I don't know the differences in the two designs and what they do for you but If I remember right this one was a "delta fin" the fin parts are pointy instead of flat on the face (excuse my cave man terminology) I can take more pictures of the core and stuff when I get the car back from paint to help show the difference between this cheap fmic and a nice garrett core.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I mainly posted in here to gain a little more knowledge on the subject from you not to show off my $100 intercooler. you know way more about this stuff so Id like to pick your brain.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Im looking for a way to have water pumped into my intercooler after I shut my car off to keep it cool, anyone have any ideas ; )

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

windsheild washer squirters lol.


heres a back door intercooler I did for a friend. shodan how do you think the inlet would affect power? would it be noticeable on a street car vs how they are normally ran?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0619021656.jpg

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I'm running a precision 600hp intercooler on my DC2. Generally my intake temps around town are 10 degrees above ambient and when boosting my intake temps are ambient temp. 19 lbs of boost on a 60mm turbo pump gas. Down in Texas car runs great.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

It's a 13 year old spearco from a fmax kit.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1382/radiator5.jpg

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Sure.. no problem. Wanted to see a few more examples, then I'll see if I can kick some knowledge. I'd also like to learn a thing or two.. you can never learn too much!! ;)

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

That wouldn't help anything, as remember, the intercooler is a heat exchanger, and runs on moving, flowing air. If the car is sitting still, there's no heated air that "sits" in the exchanger; it completely dissipates.

Now if you're thinking water sprayers that keep exchange air temps down while the car is moving, that's a different story.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

For those whom don't know; Here is a very basic description of the 3 types of "Air to Air" intercoolers:

http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/tech.html

Here is a picture of one of my intercoolers that is for a "non-typical" setup:

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

lol sorry bad joke pointed at the "water cooling after shut down" thread, but back on topic coming from the subaru world I would like to see some stats on if intercooler sprayers have much affect on IAT's to be worth the trouble.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

here's a question i wonder from time to time:

how much does the thickness matter as in is there a thickness that shows minimal gains once reached like 3 or 3.5"

also, can a thicker intercooler that has less surface area perform equally with a thinner one that is a little bigger?

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

The efficiency and thickness depends heavily on the overall setup. Things like air flow, amount of air being compressed, and Intercooler design play a large part. So to vaguely answer your question; the thinner the better but the more the surface area the higher the pressure drop. Typically this is compensated for just turning up the boost.

Say you have a 10"x10x5" Intercooler versus a 10"x10"x3" - the second will cool better until a certain CFM. This is why sizing is so important. Everything from turbo size, manifold length/runner, piping sizes, ect must be chosen for the specific setup. Too many people say "bigger is better" but don't realize their setup could be that much better with smaller parts. Planning is key to the perfect purpose built vehicle. Goals are extremely important.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Just wanted to add to break it down a little more:

Without getting too technical think of it this way. Hold a finger in front of another finger and blow. Now add more fingers until the end one stops feeling air. This is the inherient problem thick core inter coolers and radiators. Typically larger fans are required to take full advantage of a larger core radiator.

Now as far as core size, blow through a straw. Now add one, then one more, blowing through each of them. There is such thing as making an Intercooler too big. The goal is to achieve the best temperature drop with the least restriction both over and through the Intercooler. All intercoolers benefit from air daming and proper ducting. Most people just through them behind the radiator and,call it a day.

Keep in mind, this is all for Air to Air as Air to Water is completely different with some same basic principles.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Subscribed!

Speaking of air damming....

Anyone know the actual core size of one of these? (without the end tanks)

Also, how much does an intercoolers nominal hp rating actually matter? Are they typically overrated?

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Does using a block off plate (thing stock EG without AC - the factory block off plastic) have an effect on how air travels through an intercooler? A friend of mine built one for me a few years back and I never ended up trying it out. The idea was to help more air get to the radiator, but I was always curious if that had a negative effect on the intercooler.

My last setup was a CXRacing intercooler, 81mm gsr GT35E - car made decent power 450 on 19psi, if I were to do it again I would probably look into something a bit more efficient such as the Precision.


Thanks!

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

im curious as well with the configuration you have for the radiator

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I went with a Treadstone TR8 intercooler for my Integra. I used it because it was a bar and plate design, 3.5" thick, flowed the amount I needed for my setup, and the dimensions fit nicely behind the bumper without hacking it all up. Even in the Florida heat during the summer it's always cool on the cold side, so she does her job well! I will most likely upgrade to the new TR8L which is wider and flows enough for 575hp when I upgrade my turbo soon.

Here it is painted black on my old Integra. (Bumper removed to get it on the tow dolly)
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...5_457092_o.jpg
As you can tell it hides away nicely without any bumper trimming.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6625130_o.jpg

Here it is on my new shell (Bumper cut by previous owner)
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...58092588_n.jpg

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Correct. One must also take into account of the type of intercooler that they're using. Bar& Plate vs. Tube/fin make a big difference in determining the area size needed to be efficient, especially when it comes to thickness. Typically, channelled fins in the bar and plate intercooler and tube/fin styles need more surface area overall (even if its only 3" thick) to exchange air more effectively than a louvered bar & plate. Garrett went from a two-row louvered fin Bar & plate design to a 3-row design, (alternating every other row) over the last two years. They kept the same thickness of 3"-3.5"..

So there's more to it than just thickness.. (boy did that remind me of a Post-E-Vac commercial.. eek.) ;)

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

From my experience using the lower plastics under the car always helps with air turbulence and keeps the air directd to where its needed most; forcing it into the intercooler and radiator.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Precision Billet 5858
Vibrant 30 x 9 x 3.25 with 2.5 I/O

Currently 375WHP @ 13psi

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

i'm using a Precision 350 intercooler. i wanted something properly sized for my set-up. i'm sure a Mishimoto would have been suffice, but the overall length would have caused me to take a longer route on my ic piping

bumper off
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...1/4ebfe653.jpg

bumper on
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...1/4a800ce7.jpg

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

used a pwr that came with my peakboost kit iat never really moved even at 500whp on a avg day I now also perfer garret cores like the shoden its intresting to note the cores are a alittle smaller then they say like a 4 inch core is actually only 3.8 thick there is also a larger pressure drop with bigger cores so i tend to size mine around my setup now.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

i bought this used, i was putting together a budget build and it was the cost of a new ebay, but looking at the core it was way nicer and new in the future i would grow into the intercooler. its an old school godspeed intercooler or so i was told. as far as the core it looks as in appearance and fin spacing comprable to a garrett or percision. nothing like an ebay.

best close up i could find

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...-02-35_299.jpg

fuzzy pic without bumper

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...-02-00_509.jpg

pic with bumper

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...-53-55_272.jpg

waiting on a deal for a larger fmic as i think this is just a bit to small

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

You know its a different time in the world when an Intercooler from Godspeed of all companies is considered to be "old school". ;)

Deciding upon a larger intercooler should be determined by which turbocharger you're running and at which boost pressure, it becomes inefficient to a point where its time to upgrade. I know like most of us, we want to purchase one time, and one time only when it comes to this, so we tend to go overboard on the purchase. But just like the turbocharger itself, one must ask "what power do I plan to realistically obtain?".. That should help to determine type, as well as the proper size for the intercooler.

I have noticed over the years that the correlation between cost/type of intercooler coincides with the cost/type of turbocharger used.

Example. Precision users tend to use Precision or Spearco (formally with Precision) intercoolers, unless their setup requires a unique core, while Godspeed and CX Racing users tend to use Holset or rebuilt Precision or used Garrett turbochargers, in an effort to have a more "budgeted" build.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

................ EDIT....... My bad mac, I didn't even see your first post, cause I clicked on the 2nd page.. haha


CXracing
29 x 8 x 2.5
2.5" inlets


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5115/...4c78837b_z.jpg

Had to enlarge EF radiator support holes.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5076/...983711c1_z.jpg

Only had to cut 1.5" off the stock bumper support.
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6001/...df4d2e45_z.jpg


cold side was simple, hotside was a little trickier
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6152/...162eff25_z.jpg
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6172/...372b5f2e_z.jpg

I'm old school and love my ww kit. lol
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8168/...914bf7a3_z.jpg





Reason I picked this one:
1) something good for decent power (400-450whp)
2) fill up my ww grill which is 24 x 5.5"
3) back door inlets cause I wanted to the least amount of piping/bends as possible
4) didn't want something that would required me to hack up my bumper & & bumper support too much


Final thoughts:
It works great for me!
It's not too thick to which it slows down airflow to my small 12x13 full-race radiator.
AIT are good (at least on the dyno) they never went past 125ish F.
WW bumper has 2" lip which helps direct air somewhat... lol

Future mods to help with FMIC cooling:
- adding waster spray jets to lower part of WW grill
- diversion plate on the backside of FMIC (right of the radiator) to help direct flow out of the engine bay....(should create some vacuum pulling air out while car in motion)
- bought another ww bumper will be hacking that up to make it 8" tall grill vs. currently 5.5" tall.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

See? I knew I was starting trouble here. And only YOU would start spoutin' price tags again!!! ;)

I was only looking at a relative correlation on overall price/performance, which is why I purposefully did not state any prices...Hehe.

From now on.. NO MORE ACTUAL PRICES.. let's keep this on point of efficiency, type, endtank configuration, etc.. TECH and SPEC, not PRICE CORRECT. :)

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Well this intercooler would probably be as efficient as a much larger ebay intercooler simply because of the supperior design. But i would compare it to a percision 350hp intercooler which is good for a bit more than that.....and my goal is 4-450 so im most likely not getting as much cooling as i need with the current setup. And your right it is a budget build made to hold its own against some of the "baller" builds. Hence me waiting on a good deal for a decent non-chinese intercooler.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

Yesterday I was tuning a s2000 with an intercooler similar in size to BLU CIVIC's, but it was some sort of cheap ebay piece. The turbo setup was nice, but the intercooler was seriously lacking. It made 270whp on 3.5psi, 341whp on 8.5 psi, and only 380 on 14psi :/. It appeared that the intercooler became terribly inneficient at higher boost levels. I put a pressure transducer on the turbo's compressor outlet and saw a substantial pressure rise greater than intake manifold pressure all the way to redline on high boost, while the actual boost read by the car's map sensor fell off a bit as rpms climbed.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I think we need more reviews/testimonials like this

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

My old school JRC intercooler has been going strong for 6 years now at or around the 300hp mark

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

The first Turbo I received came from Full-Race and this intercooler came with it. Full-Race ProStreet Intercooler. Don't know nothing about intercoolers but made 800Hp off this kit running a T67 Garrett Turbo and still running strong. Just a week ago bought the new Full Race Out Law Manifold with BW T67 using the Full Race Drag Intercool Set up 24x12x4.5, this thing is a monster. I'm asking my self if it is really needed because I could use the room.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I had the Precision 600hp IC on my B16 build and started to get hot and lose its efficiency upwards of 500whp. Switched to a Vibrant IC part# 12815, rated for almost 900hp. At 20psi, switching intercoolers gave me about 13-17 whp when compared dyno sheets and almost same variables. At 34psi made 607whp and the intercooler was a little warm on the inlet side and ambient temp on the outlet side. More than half of the IC was cold. Bought this IC because looking to hit 700.

I believe intercoolers are rated for flywheel or brake horsepower.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

First time logging in and months and bam...lol

I have several ...probably hundreds, of various FMIC/Intercooler pics /setups we've built on our other computer. I'll get some up.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I wish I had some real data about what my intercooler can handle. I cannot for the life of me find my turbo kit online since it was discontinued so long ago. I probably just need to call spearco.

Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!
 

I know there's probably a lot of compar-o's for factory turbo cars, but not for Honda's that I've seen. I'd really like to see the gains between small ebay/high-density and large ebay/high-density cores.

If I'm reading that above example right, that's maybe a 3% gain at ~550whp. Most people I know go turbo because they're tired of paying $500+ for a 17whp - that's what I'd expect from the NA world. I'm sure many guys would rather do cams/porting/IM/exhaust stuff first, given the gains you can see with that stuff.