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DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

 
Old 11-11-2018, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Well, the more I thought about it and the more I read about the OBX unit, I decided to return it. Once the refund is issued I'm going to buy an mFactory helical LSD instead.
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Old 11-11-2018, 04:52 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Well, the more I thought about it and the more I read about the OBX unit, I decided to return it. Once the refund is issued I'm going to buy an mFactory helical LSD instead.
Excellent choice!
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

I need a LSD, but they are not cheap and I’m having to pick my battles with my budget. I also think you made the correct decision on the brand change
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Old 11-11-2018, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Does anyone know if I can use 40mm differential bearings for a cable transmission in a hydro transmission? I bought diff bearings for a cable tranny (91005-PL0-008) because I initially planned to put all this in my EF sedan, but since this is all going in my EG coupe now, I need to know if I can use these bearings or if I need to send them back and get ones specifically for a hydro transmission (91005-PS1-003 or 91005-PC9-008).
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Old 11-11-2018, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Does anyone know if I can use 40mm differential bearings for a cable transmission in a hydro transmission? I bought diff bearings for a cable tranny (91005-PL0-008) because I initially planned to put all this in my EF sedan, but since this is all going in my EG coupe now, I need to know if I can use these bearings or if I need to send them back and get ones specifically for a hydro transmission (91005-PS1-003 or 91005-PC9-008).
might be a great call for syncrotech, those guys know their stuff and are fair on parts
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post
might be a great call for syncrotech, those guys know their stuff and are fair on parts
Thanks, I ended up calling them and they were very helpful - they said that 40 mm diff bearings are interchangeable between L3/Si and S20/EX D-series transmissions. Hoping to get the tranny put back together in the next few weeks. I'm going to tear it all the way down and have the cases cleaned - they are nasty on the outside. Besides the helical LSD, I'm going to go ahead and put in carbon synchros, new synchro sleeves, new bearings, and new seals.

Big thanks to Autoworks - they turned around my oil pan and valve cover in less than 24 hours - they should show up tomorrow. Block is up at CNCwerx right now. Cylinder head should be going off to the machine shop early next week - all I'm waiting on are the Ferrea valve keepers and the cam to show up (thanks Txdragon). Ferrea 6000 series valves and Supertech springs, retainers, and seals are here.


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Old 11-14-2018, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Moving along pretty fast! My parts kinda staggered in over 3 weeks my first time through. Lol!
I'm definitely interested in hearing how that transmission comes out.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Does anyone have any good resources they can recommend for bottom end building / assembly? I rebuilt my wife's Accord back to stock at the beginning of this year, so I'm at least that competent, but I'd like to read a little more about building for high horsepower before I just dive in again.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Well, it's been nearly 15 years since I was in the turbo Honda game, but I'm back. In 2004 I built a turbo B18A1 (stock bottom end) and put it in a 92 VX that ran 240 whp / 236 wtq. It was tons of fun, but I blew it up within a year, lost the desire to keep spending money on it, and parted it out. I was a poor college student on a tight budget, and it just didn't work out. Since then I have just been throwing the miles on my daily driver - a work-horse 90 Civic DX sedan with a SOHC ZC (non-VTEC) and Si transmission that has 423,000+ miles on it (223,000 of those miles by me). The engine is getting tired, so I was originally just going to rebuild the ZC back to stock, but I ended up buying my sister's 94 Civic EX coupe (single owner), so project car time. I've decided to build the D16Z6 and turbocharge it. My goal is something between a 3-day-a-week car to a daily driver for my 30 mile round-trip commute to and from work, with occasional trips to see family about 150 miles away. Reliability and creature comforts like a full interior and air conditioning are a must. I'll be happy with somewhere around 300 whp on 93 octane (maybe E85?), and my expectations will be exceeded with 350-400 whp.

This will be a 3-phase build to spread out the costs. Phase 1 will be building the engine and transmission to hold high horsepower (doing all the stuff that requires major disassembly), with a goal of having a driveable car at the completion of the phase - built motor and transmission but stock otherwise. Phase 2 will be adding components that will eventually be needed for turbo while the car is driveable. Phase 3 will finally be turbocharging the engine and tuning.

Phase 1 - cost estimate is $6,500
  • Chassis ($300)
    • $300 - 1994 Civic EX, single owner, 181K miles
  • D16 Block (approximately $2,000)
    • $475 - CSS ($325 for work, $150 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
    • $312 - Eagle H-beam rods
    • $567 - CP pistons, 9.0:1 compression ratio
    • $82 - Oil pan modification for turbo oil return ($50 for work, $8 for 10AN cap, $24 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
    • $8 - Oil control orifice & o-ring
    • $76 - Oil pump
    • $8 - Rear main seal
    • $3 - Sealing washer for coolant jacket drain plug
    • $13 - Oil pan gasket
    • $11 - Small parts shipping
    • $100 (estimate) - Bearings
    • $255 (estimate) - Bore / hone / deck / inspect / jet wash block, and clean / inspect / polish crankshaft
    • $70 (estimate) - Timing belt / water pump / tensioner
    • $20 (estimate) - Oil change
  • Z6 Cylinder Head (approximately $1,400)
    • $0 - Stock valves
    • $240 - Ferrea 6000 valves
    • $0 - Stock springs & retainers
    • $280 - Supertech springs & titanium retainers
    • $10 - Supertech valve stem seals
    • $0 - Stock valve locks
    • $80 - Ferrea valve locks
    • $5 - Camshaft seal
    • $0 - Stock cam
    • $180 - Comp 59300 cam
    • $0 - Stock cam gear
    • $123 - ARP head studs
    • $68 - OEM head gasket
    • $8 - IM gasket
    • $10 - EM gasket
    • $12 - Vale cover gasket
    • $152 - Valve cover venting for catch can ($110 for work, $16 for 10AN caps, $26 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
    • $7 (estimate) - VTEC solenoid gasket
    • $170 (estimate) - Valve job / pressure test / resurface & clean head / knurl valve guides
  • Fuel / Engine Management (approximately $1,000)
    • $560 - P28 ECU with Hondata S300v3 and boost by gear
    • $82 - ECU recapping by Hondata ($50 for work, $32 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
    • $350 - Injector Dynamics ID1000 fuel injectors
    • $0 - Stock fuel rail / lines / regulator
    • $15 (estimate) - Fuel filter
  • Cooling ($100 estimate)
    • $8 - Thermostat & gasket
    • $6 - Water pipe o-rings
    • $10 (estimate) - Antifreeze
    • $50 (estimate) - Radiator / heater / coolant hoses
  • S20/EX Transmission ($1,600 estimate)
    • $332 - Competition Clutch Stage 4
    • $450 - OBX helical LSD
    • $650 - mFactory helical LSD
    • $180 - Synchrotech Pro-series carbon synchros, new synchro sleeves
    • $28 - Honda MTF
    • $1 - Fill plug washer
    • $4 - Drain plug washer
    • $175 (estimate) - Bearing & seal kit
    • $30 (estimate) - Resurface stock flywheel
    • $170 (estimate) - Duralast Gold axles (for now)
Phase 2 and 3 Plans
  • Fuel / Air
    • AEM 320 lph fuel pump or Aeromotive Stealth 340 lph fuel pump
    • AEM fuel pressure regulator
    • PLX wideband lambda meter
  • Exhaust
    • Thermal R&D 3 inch
  • Turbo
    • eBay turbo kit Go-Autoworks S-X500 Kit
    • Turbonetics TNX 20/60 turbo
So, there's my introduction post for this build. Appreciate any input / guidance the H-T world may have for me, especially regarding turbo choice and manifold choice. Help me not waste $ buying things I don't need, lol.
In all honesty why dump all that money into phase 1 on a single cam? For basically the same money you can have that in a b-series build.

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Old 11-15-2018, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
In all honesty why dump all that money into phase 1 on a single cam? For basically the same money you can have that in a b-series build.
Why blow all that money on a B-series build when a D can be just as fun?!
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Why blow all that money on a B-series build when a D can be just as fun?!
Here's my thoughts, for 300 to 400whp you could probably pull that off with a stock GSR. If you spent the same money into a B-Series as this single cam you would make over 500whp easy. I mean you can buy a bare block GSR for 200 bucks and a stock GSR head for about 400 and a GSR trans for about 600. A stock GSR trans could easily handle 500whp bone stock with nothing done to it so 300-400 would be cake.

So if he is looking at ways to save money it would be to choose a different platform.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
In all honesty why dump all that money into phase 1 on a single cam? For basically the same money you can have that in a b-series build.
Because racecar. Can't I just bolt a B-series head on later? I kid...I kid...

This started out as somewhat of a budget minded build but that quickly went out the window. I'm already this deep into it, man, gotta see it through!
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Because racecar. Can't I just bolt a B-series head on later? I kid...I kid...

This started out as somewhat of a budget minded build but that quickly went out the window. I'm already this deep into it, man, gotta see it through!
I mean if you are too deep and it's too late it is what it is, you'll make the power you want with what you're doing so at least you will meet your goal.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
Here's my thoughts, for 300 to 400whp you could probably pull that off with a stock GSR. If you spent the same money into a B-Series as this single cam you would make over 500whp easy. I mean you can buy a bare block GSR for 200 bucks and a stock GSR head for about 400 and a GSR trans for about 600. A stock GSR trans could easily handle 500whp bone stock with nothing done to it so 300-400 would be cake.

So if he is looking at ways to save money it would be to choose a different platform.
Oh granted. A GSR can handle some umph on stock internals but gotta look at what's spent to get that. If you're lucky enough to find a car in good shape that it came in, you'll spend 3k or better alone. If you're talking about series swap; GSR into an EG or other chassis, that's a task in and of itself. You'll spend 3 or 4k BEFORE even starting upgrades.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Oh granted. A GSR can handle some umph on stock internals but gotta look at what's spent to get that. If you're lucky enough to find a car in good shape that it came in, you'll spend 3k or better alone. If you're talking about series swap; GSR into an EG or other chassis, that's a task in and of itself. You'll spend 3 or 4k BEFORE even starting upgrades.

Let's say you're right and that a GSR swap into a EG is 3k isn't that cheaper than 6.5k? If the goal is to hit 300-400 and you can do that on a 3k swap vs 6.5k single cam build, you get my point?

Now if you were to decide to build a GSR you don't go out and buy a swap, you go out and buy a GSR bare block which can be had for 200 and now you are starting off a block build for essentially the same price as if you buy a bare block single cam. However for 300-400 you don't need to send the GSR block off for CSS, the hone, deck, bore, pistons, rods, bearing, water and oil pump etc. are all going to be around the exact same price. However the power the block will now be capable of handling and producing will far exceed a single cam.

Also the same can be said with the head, you can buy a stock GSR head for around 400-500 bucks and spend the same amount on parts but we all know the GSR head will outflow the single cam head.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
I mean if you are too deep and it's too late it is what it is, you'll make the power you want with what you're doing so at least you will meet your goal.
Yeah, it's too late...it is what it is now.
Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
Let's say you're right and that a GSR swap into a EG is 3k isn't that cheaper than 6.5k? If the goal is to hit 300-400 and you can do that on a 3k swap vs 6.5k single cam build, you get my point?

Now if you were to decide to build a GSR you don't go out and buy a swap, you go out and buy a GSR bare block which can be had for 200 and now you are starting off a block build for essentially the same price as if you buy a bare block single cam. However for 300-400 you don't need to send the GSR block off for CSS, the hone, deck, bore, pistons, rods, bearing, water and oil pump etc. are all going to be around the exact same price. However the power the block will now be capable of handling and producing will far exceed a single cam.

Also the same can be said with the head, you can buy a stock GSR head for around 400-500 bucks and spend the same amount on parts but we all know the GSR head will outflow the single cam head.
Good perspective for next time, or the next guy that reads this and is on the fence about which way to go. I did the B-series swap last time, and honestly got scared off from a budget standpoint to getting the swap in the car. That budget mindedness was at the start of this thing before I started dumping money into it...sure, in retrospect I could have probably been a little more patient and built a B-series for the same $. I got the car with the D16Z6 for $300, and initially my plan wasn't to spend $6,500 on Phase 1. I'm in it now, and like you said, I should meet my power goals. It may be better that I'm not going to a B-series though, because the temptation would be to just keep turning up the volume on that thing, and then I'd be wishing I had built the bottom end. I'm hoping that the way I've done it, I'll run out of ability of the D-series platform to perform before I risk breaking internals. At least that's what I'm hoping.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
Here's my thoughts, for 300 to 400whp you could probably pull that off with a stock GSR. If you spent the same money into a B-Series as this single cam you would make over 500whp easy. I mean you can buy a bare block GSR for 200 bucks and a stock GSR head for about 400 and a GSR trans for about 600. A stock GSR trans could easily handle 500whp bone stock with nothing done to it so 300-400 would be cake.

So if he is looking at ways to save money it would be to choose a different platform.
you got me thinking of my choices now since I am $0 into any car or build. Lol happen to have a thread you could link or point me in the direction to look? Also what platforms did this engine come in and what's the engine code or whatever? Sorry im completely new to Hondas in general besides my motorcycle.

Not trying to hijack your thread DaX after this one question I'll take it elsewhere.

edit I used the powers of Google to at least find out what a GSR was. Sorry for my noobiness
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by J Dog View Post
you got me thinking of my choices now since I am $0 into any car or build. Lol happen to have a thread you could link or point me in the direction to look? Also what platforms did this engine come in and what's the engine code or whatever? Sorry im completely new to Hondas in general besides my motorcycle.

Not trying to hijack your thread DaX after this one question I'll take it elsewhere.

edit I used the powers of Google to at least find out what a GSR was. Sorry for my noobiness
No - don't be sorry. This isn't 'my' thread - I'm all for good discussion.

The Acura Integra GS-R came with the B18C1 engine. There were 2-door and 4-door versions. If you're wanting to start with a chassis / engine already together, you could look for one of these, unless you're sure you want to have a Civic.

Here is a turbo GS-R swapped Civic thread. This one is a monster: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...hread-3319179/
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Yeah, it's too late...it is what it is now.

Good perspective for next time, or the next guy that reads this and is on the fence about which way to go. I did the B-series swap last time, and honestly got scared off from a budget standpoint to getting the swap in the car. That budget mindedness was at the start of this thing before I started dumping money into it...sure, in retrospect I could have probably been a little more patient and built a B-series for the same $. I got the car with the D16Z6 for $300, and initially my plan wasn't to spend $6,500 on Phase 1. I'm in it now, and like you said, I should meet my power goals. It may be better that I'm not going to a B-series though, because the temptation would be to just keep turning up the volume on that thing, and then I'd be wishing I had built the bottom end. I'm hoping that the way I've done it, I'll run out of ability of the D-series platform to perform before I risk breaking internals. At least that's what I'm hoping.
Yeah if you already have bought a bunch of parts and really only are looking for 300-400 you will get there with what you are doing.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:05 AM
  #45  
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
No - don't be sorry. This isn't 'my' thread - I'm all for good discussion.

The Acura Integra GS-R came with the B18C1 engine. There were 2-door and 4-door versions. If you're wanting to start with a chassis / engine already together, you could look for one of these, unless you're sure you want to have a Civic.

Here is a turbo GS-R swapped Civic thread. This one is a monster: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...hread-3319179/
I have no current preference on platform my literal only requirement is that is has a back seat so I can cart my kids when needed. That being said i actually do like the integra looks a little better so if i can pick up a gs-r I wouldn't shy away from it at all even though I see they are certainly much more expensive with a quick search on autotrader. IF I was to go that route I'd probably try to find a shell and buy the engine components separately so I wouldn't have to do a tear down and rebuild of the old one. Just start fresh for minimal issues hopefully. All that being said for in the future should I look across for sale forums or is there a good place to look besides autotrader, craigslist and Ebay for stuff I will be looking for?
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:17 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by J Dog View Post
I have no current preference on platform my literal only requirement is that is has a back seat so I can cart my kids when needed. That being said i actually do like the integra looks a little better so if i can pick up a gs-r I wouldn't shy away from it at all even though I see they are certainly much more expensive with a quick search on autotrader. IF I was to go that route I'd probably try to find a shell and buy the engine components separately so I wouldn't have to do a tear down and rebuild of the old one. Just start fresh for minimal issues hopefully. All that being said for in the future should I look across for sale forums or is there a good place to look besides autotrader, craigslist and Ebay for stuff I will be looking for?
Good idea. Like I said my previous build I bought a GSR block for $200 bucks, this new build I bought the GSR block for $150 dollars and a good GSR crank for $150. If I know I am going to build a block there is no point in buying a running GSR block or entire GSR motor. I bought a perfect GSR head for $400.

For reference here, I got my last block GE sleeved, oringed, bead blasted, bore, hone and decked for $1500, spent 1300 for Manely Turbo Tuff Rods and CP Pistons. All the little Misc. other parts and assembly I was into my block for $3500 and it made 1100whp.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
Good idea. Like I said my previous build I bought a GSR block for $200 bucks, this new build I bought the GSR block for $150 dollars and a good GSR crank for $150. If I know I am going to build a block there is no point in buying a running GSR block or entire GSR motor. I bought a perfect GSR head for $400.

For reference here, I got my last block GE sleeved, oringed, bead blasted, bore, hone and decked for $1500, spent 1300 for Manely Turbo Tuff Rods and CP Pistons. All the little Misc. other parts and assembly I was into my block for $3500 and it made 1100whp.
well holy **** *****. Haha that's definitely to much for me. I've also heard the LS engine term thrown around as good as well? Let's say ultimate goal somewhere between 300whp-400whp what route would be the easiest and most reliable at that point? I have to say all this learning is super exciting right now, the more I delve into these convos with you guys and threads I'm reading I'm like hell yes I can't wait! Lol
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
Good idea. Like I said my previous build I bought a GSR block for $200 bucks, this new build I bought the GSR block for $150 dollars and a good GSR crank for $150. If I know I am going to build a block there is no point in buying a running GSR block or entire GSR motor. I bought a perfect GSR head for $400.

For reference here, I got my last block GE sleeved, oringed, bead blasted, bore, hone and decked for $1500, spent 1300 for Manely Turbo Tuff Rods and CP Pistons. All the little Misc. other parts and assembly I was into my block for $3500 and it made 1100whp.
Originally Posted by J Dog View Post
well holy **** *****. Haha that's definitely to much for me. I've also heard the LS engine term thrown around as good as well? Let's say ultimate goal somewhere between 300whp-400whp what route would be the easiest and most reliable at that point? I have to say all this learning is super exciting right now, the more I delve into these convos with you guys and threads I'm reading I'm like hell yes I can't wait! Lol
I guess also let me ask would it be cheaper to buy the block and then all the internals new or good used or to buy a donor engine as well to swap OEM parts that are up to the task?
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by J Dog View Post
well holy **** *****. Haha that's definitely to much for me. I've also heard the LS engine term thrown around as good as well? Let's say ultimate goal somewhere between 300whp-400whp what route would be the easiest and most reliable at that point? I have to say all this learning is super exciting right now, the more I delve into these convos with you guys and threads I'm reading I'm like hell yes I can't wait! Lol
I'm not really a fan of an LS engine, for 300 to 400whp I would say run a stock GSR, I was looking for a build thread on here that was updated until the guy sold the car but he did a turbo kit on a stock GSR motor and made around 400whp.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: DaX's D16Z6 turbocharger build - older, but maybe not any wiser

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
I'm not really a fan of an LS engine, for 300 to 400whp I would say run a stock GSR, I was looking for a build thread on here that was updated until the guy sold the car but he did a turbo kit on a stock GSR motor and made around 400whp.
Is it this one: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...hread-3297958/

Or is it this one: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...hread-3319179/
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