Originally Posted by DaX

Well, the more I thought about it and the more I read about the OBX unit, I decided to return it. Once the refund is issued I'm going to buy an mFactory helical LSD instead.

Originally Posted by turboLScrx

might be a great call for syncrotech, those guys know their stuff and are fair on parts

Originally Posted by DaX

Well, it's been nearly 15 years since I was in the turbo Honda game, but I'm back. In 2004 I built a turbo B18A1 (stock bottom end) and put it in a 92 VX that ran 240 whp / 236 wtq. It was tons of fun, but I blew it up within a year, lost the desire to keep spending money on it, and parted it out. I was a poor college student on a tight budget, and it just didn't work out. Since then I have just been throwing the miles on my daily driver - a work-horse 90 Civic DX sedan with a SOHC ZC (non-VTEC) and Si transmission that has 423,000+ miles on it (223,000 of those miles by me). The engine is getting tired, so I was originally just going to rebuild the ZC back to stock, but I ended up buying my sister's 94 Civic EX coupe (single owner), so project car time. I've decided to build the D16Z6 and turbocharge it. My goal is something between a 3-day-a-week car to a daily driver for my 30 mile round-trip commute to and from work, with occasional trips to see family about 150 miles away. Reliability and creature comforts like a full interior and air conditioning are a must. I'll be happy with somewhere around 300 whp on 93 octane (maybe E85?), and my expectations will be exceeded with 350-400 whp.

This will be a 3-phase build to spread out the costs. Phase 1 will be building the engine and transmission to hold high horsepower (doing all the stuff that requires major disassembly), with a goal of having a driveable car at the completion of the phase - built motor and transmission but stock otherwise. Phase 2 will be adding components that will eventually be needed for turbo while the car is driveable. Phase 3 will finally be turbocharging the engine and tuning.

Phase 1 - cost estimate is $6,500

• Chassis ($300)
  • $300 - 1994 Civic EX, single owner, 181K miles
• D16 Block (approximately $2,000)
  • $475 - CSS ($325 for work, $150 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
  • $312 - Eagle H-beam rods
  • $567 - CP pistons, 9.0:1 compression ratio
  • $82 - Oil pan modification for turbo oil return ($50 for work, $8 for 10AN cap, $24 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
  • $8 - Oil control orifice & o-ring
  • $76 - Oil pump
  • $8 - Rear main seal
  • $3 - Sealing washer for coolant jacket drain plug
  • $13 - Oil pan gasket
  • $11 - Small parts shipping
  • $100 (estimate) - Bearings
  • $255 (estimate) - Bore / hone / deck / inspect / jet wash block, and clean / inspect / polish crankshaft
  • $70 (estimate) - Timing belt / water pump / tensioner
  • $20 (estimate) - Oil change
• Z6 Cylinder Head (approximately $1,400)
  • $0 - Stock valves
  • $240 - Ferrea 6000 valves
  • $0 - Stock springs & retainers
  • $280 - Supertech springs & titanium retainers
  • $10 - Supertech valve stem seals
  • $0 - Stock valve locks
  • $80 - Ferrea valve locks
  • $5 - Camshaft seal
  • $0 - Stock cam
  • $180 - Comp 59300 cam
  • $0 - Stock cam gear
  • $123 - ARP head studs
  • $68 - OEM head gasket
  • $8 - IM gasket
  • $10 - EM gasket
  • $12 - Vale cover gasket
  • $152 - Valve cover venting for catch can ($110 for work, $16 for 10AN caps, $26 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
  • $7 (estimate) - VTEC solenoid gasket
  • $170 (estimate) - Valve job / pressure test / resurface & clean head / knurl valve guides
• Fuel / Engine Management (approximately $1,000)
  • $560 - P28 ECU with Hondata S300v3 and boost by gear
  • $82 - ECU recapping by Hondata ($50 for work, $32 for shipping / insurance / packing materials)
  • $350 - Injector Dynamics ID1000 fuel injectors
  • $0 - Stock fuel rail / lines / regulator
  • $15 (estimate) - Fuel filter
• Cooling ($100 estimate)
  • $8 - Thermostat & gasket
  • $6 - Water pipe o-rings
  • $10 (estimate) - Antifreeze
  • $50 (estimate) - Radiator / heater / coolant hoses
• S20/EX Transmission ($1,600 estimate)
  • $332 - Competition Clutch Stage 4
  • $450 - OBX helical LSD
  • $650 - mFactory helical LSD
  • $180 - Synchrotech Pro-series carbon synchros, new synchro sleeves
  • $28 - Honda MTF
  • $1 - Fill plug washer
  • $4 - Drain plug washer
  • $175 (estimate) - Bearing & seal kit
  • $30 (estimate) - Resurface stock flywheel
  • $170 (estimate) - Duralast Gold axles (for now)

Phase 2 and 3 Plans

• Fuel / Air
  • AEM 320 lph fuel pump or Aeromotive Stealth 340 lph fuel pump
  • AEM fuel pressure regulator
  • PLX wideband lambda meter
• Exhaust
  • Thermal R&D 3 inch
• Turbo
  • eBay turbo kit Go-Autoworks S-X500 Kit
  • Turbonetics TNX 20/60 turbo

So, there's my introduction post for this build. Appreciate any input / guidance the H-T world may have for me, especially regarding turbo choice and manifold choice. Help me not waste $ buying things I don't need, lol.

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

In all honesty why dump all that money into phase 1 on a single cam? For basically the same money you can have that in a b-series build.

Originally Posted by Txdragon

Why blow all that money on a B-series build when a D can be just as fun?!

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

In all honesty why dump all that money into phase 1 on a single cam? For basically the same money you can have that in a b-series build.

Originally Posted by DaX

Because racecar. Can't I just bolt a B-series head on later? I kid...I kid...

This started out as somewhat of a budget minded build but that quickly went out the window. I'm already this deep into it, man, gotta see it through!

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

Here's my thoughts, for 300 to 400whp you could probably pull that off with a stock GSR. If you spent the same money into a B-Series as this single cam you would make over 500whp easy. I mean you can buy a bare block GSR for 200 bucks and a stock GSR head for about 400 and a GSR trans for about 600. A stock GSR trans could easily handle 500whp bone stock with nothing done to it so 300-400 would be cake.

So if he is looking at ways to save money it would be to choose a different platform.

Originally Posted by Txdragon

Oh granted. A GSR can handle some umph on stock internals but gotta look at what's spent to get that. If you're lucky enough to find a car in good shape that it came in, you'll spend 3k or better alone. If you're talking about series swap; GSR into an EG or other chassis, that's a task in and of itself. You'll spend 3 or 4k BEFORE even starting upgrades.

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

I mean if you are too deep and it's too late it is what it is, you'll make the power you want with what you're doing so at least you will meet your goal.

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

Let's say you're right and that a GSR swap into a EG is 3k isn't that cheaper than 6.5k? If the goal is to hit 300-400 and you can do that on a 3k swap vs 6.5k single cam build, you get my point?

Now if you were to decide to build a GSR you don't go out and buy a swap, you go out and buy a GSR bare block which can be had for 200 and now you are starting off a block build for essentially the same price as if you buy a bare block single cam. However for 300-400 you don't need to send the GSR block off for CSS, the hone, deck, bore, pistons, rods, bearing, water and oil pump etc. are all going to be around the exact same price. However the power the block will now be capable of handling and producing will far exceed a single cam.

Also the same can be said with the head, you can buy a stock GSR head for around 400-500 bucks and spend the same amount on parts but we all know the GSR head will outflow the single cam head.

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

Here's my thoughts, for 300 to 400whp you could probably pull that off with a stock GSR. If you spent the same money into a B-Series as this single cam you would make over 500whp easy. I mean you can buy a bare block GSR for 200 bucks and a stock GSR head for about 400 and a GSR trans for about 600. A stock GSR trans could easily handle 500whp bone stock with nothing done to it so 300-400 would be cake.

So if he is looking at ways to save money it would be to choose a different platform.

Originally Posted by J Dog

you got me thinking of my choices now since I am $0 into any car or build. Lol happen to have a thread you could link or point me in the direction to look? Also what platforms did this engine come in and what's the engine code or whatever? Sorry im completely new to Hondas in general besides my motorcycle.

Not trying to hijack your thread DaX after this one question I'll take it elsewhere.

edit I used the powers of Google to at least find out what a GSR was. Sorry for my noobiness

Originally Posted by DaX

Yeah, it's too late...it is what it is now.

Good perspective for next time, or the next guy that reads this and is on the fence about which way to go. I did the B-series swap last time, and honestly got scared off from a budget standpoint to getting the swap in the car. That budget mindedness was at the start of this thing before I started dumping money into it...sure, in retrospect I could have probably been a little more patient and built a B-series for the same $. I got the car with the D16Z6 for $300, and initially my plan wasn't to spend $6,500 on Phase 1. I'm in it now, and like you said, I should meet my power goals. It may be better that I'm not going to a B-series though, because the temptation would be to just keep turning up the volume on that thing, and then I'd be wishing I had built the bottom end. I'm hoping that the way I've done it, I'll run out of ability of the D-series platform to perform before I risk breaking internals. At least that's what I'm hoping.

Originally Posted by DaX

No - don't be sorry. This isn't 'my' thread - I'm all for good discussion.

The Acura Integra GS-R came with the B18C1 engine. There were 2-door and 4-door versions. If you're wanting to start with a chassis / engine already together, you could look for one of these, unless you're sure you want to have a Civic.

Here is a turbo GS-R swapped Civic thread. This one is a monster: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...hread-3319179/

Originally Posted by J Dog

I have no current preference on platform my literal only requirement is that is has a back seat so I can cart my kids when needed. That being said i actually do like the integra looks a little better so if i can pick up a gs-r I wouldn't shy away from it at all even though I see they are certainly much more expensive with a quick search on autotrader. IF I was to go that route I'd probably try to find a shell and buy the engine components separately so I wouldn't have to do a tear down and rebuild of the old one. Just start fresh for minimal issues hopefully. All that being said for in the future should I look across for sale forums or is there a good place to look besides autotrader, craigslist and Ebay for stuff I will be looking for?

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

Good idea. Like I said my previous build I bought a GSR block for $200 bucks, this new build I bought the GSR block for $150 dollars and a good GSR crank for $150. If I know I am going to build a block there is no point in buying a running GSR block or entire GSR motor. I bought a perfect GSR head for $400.

For reference here, I got my last block GE sleeved, oringed, bead blasted, bore, hone and decked for $1500, spent 1300 for Manely Turbo Tuff Rods and CP Pistons. All the little Misc. other parts and assembly I was into my block for $3500 and it made 1100whp.

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

Good idea. Like I said my previous build I bought a GSR block for $200 bucks, this new build I bought the GSR block for $150 dollars and a good GSR crank for $150. If I know I am going to build a block there is no point in buying a running GSR block or entire GSR motor. I bought a perfect GSR head for $400.

For reference here, I got my last block GE sleeved, oringed, bead blasted, bore, hone and decked for $1500, spent 1300 for Manely Turbo Tuff Rods and CP Pistons. All the little Misc. other parts and assembly I was into my block for $3500 and it made 1100whp.

Originally Posted by J Dog

well holy **** *****. Haha that's definitely to much for me. I've also heard the LS engine term thrown around as good as well? Let's say ultimate goal somewhere between 300whp-400whp what route would be the easiest and most reliable at that point? I have to say all this learning is super exciting right now, the more I delve into these convos with you guys and threads I'm reading I'm like hell yes I can't wait! Lol

Originally Posted by J Dog

well holy **** *****. Haha that's definitely to much for me. I've also heard the LS engine term thrown around as good as well? Let's say ultimate goal somewhere between 300whp-400whp what route would be the easiest and most reliable at that point? I have to say all this learning is super exciting right now, the more I delve into these convos with you guys and threads I'm reading I'm like hell yes I can't wait! Lol

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC

I'm not really a fan of an LS engine, for 300 to 400whp I would say run a stock GSR, I was looking for a build thread on here that was updated until the guy sold the car but he did a turbo kit on a stock GSR motor and made around 400whp.