eg6-jarhead

iTrader: (1)

Hi honda-tech,

I am going to try and make this brutally boring and dicouraging story short so i dont waste your time. please feel free to comment and share your opinions as i will print this thread out and show the machine shop that performed the work (which i will not disclose the name of yet).

Ok, so jumping back to march/april 2012. I dropped my H22a4 block/crank/mains and my manley rods/cp pistons off to the machine shop for them to:

darton sleeve install standard bore 87mm and hone
balance crank and rods and pistons
file ring gaps

i told them i would pick it up in 3-4weeks. nearing the day i was going to get the block, i called and gave them a heads up that i wanted to pick it up on a wednesday the following week, no problem. WEDNESDAY morning (the day i was to go get the block) i get a voicemail saying "long story short, darton didnt leave enough metal in the bores to make them standard bore becuase when i honed it the crosshatch was shadowy and splotchy, so i overbored it .020".

i thought, eh not what i wanted but i guess i can try to find some 87.5mm pistons. so i went and picked up the block and headed home. Got home and was looking it all over and realized he had drill metal from one of the cp pistons to get it balanced. I called him and asked how i am supposed to return a set of pistons with metal drilled out? he said to buy the oversized ones and he would pay the difference and take the old ones or something like that. at this point i was kinda mad that he waited until the night before i came to sleeve my block and realize this. so i called him back and we agreed that i should bring the block back and have it RE-SLEEVED and bore to standard 87mm. so another week went by after i dropped the block off and then i went to get it.

EARLY JUNE. I assembled the rotating assembly myself and was happy with all of it, everything went together smooth. i blueprinted the block and got all the oem bearings perfect i was pumped to have my first sleeved motor!!

got the motor in and running like the 2nd week in june. put 150 miles on it the first day, street tuning partial throttle areas and letting the rings seat. continued to putt around in it for the first 300 miles or so and then i made my dumptube and starting putting the boost to it. gate pressure was 8psi. my 2nd day with the low cam boost columns tuned i was driving home from work and it was running hot (210degrees). pulled over let it cool down. drove to advance autoparts, drained coolant thing maybe my mixture wasnt 50/50. still got hot. pulled thermostat and wired fan on constant. still got hot. tried to drive home easy, car stalled at stop light. hard started and puffed white smoke. TOWED HOME. pulled head that night at like 1AM. found ALL THE SLEEVES SUNK!.

Called the machine shop, they said pull it out and bring it back. i didnt charge them anything for labor and i just pulled the damn thing and drove it back (mind you a round trip is 3hours). they called me a couple days later and said the sleeves must have settled and they put the block in a press and the sleeves didnt move anymore so they decked it again. i asked for $ for a cometic gasket that would make up for the decking, they proivided. assembled it all again.

a few days after round 2 of engine assembly, car was running ok. i bumped psi up to 16 and i was now engaging vtec. revlimit was at 8200. on roughly the 8th day after i got the motor back the upper radiator hose exploded and i had to park at a rest area and get a new hose. put new hose on, started to drive to work and it was running very hot (220degrees) still with no thermostat. i got to work (honda dealership where im a tech) and did a leak down test. i only did #1 cylinder because as soon as i brought the piston to TDC, the headgasket leaked into cylinder #2 throught the spark plug hole. pulled head off again, found ALL THE SLEEVES SUNK AGAIN. called machine shop a few days later cause i just needed a break and didnt feel like pulling the block out for the 3rd time in 2 weeks.
once i got it out i dropped it off. and a week later i called and left a message. they called back and left a message saying " the sleeves were hitting the first step on the bottom before the big step on the top, we found that they cant go any further and we decked it again". so i picked it up and its assembled now (7/31/12).

tomorrow will be start up and hopefully the motor pulling will be over. i havent even made a single pass at the track this year and this has really killed my motivation. I would have liked to think that i could have what i wanted after paying $1800. he has given me a total of $575 for gaskets and troubles which is nice to know that he is working with me on it. its just ruined my summer. i picked up 3 "semi sponsors" in the spring and was really hoping this year was going to be a big year for me.
I am a recognized street tuner in my area (boston) and i have a lot of people that were banking on my build to come through so they could trust this machine shop but im afraid that will likely not happen..

i will update tomorrow with how the start up and drive home goes.

sorry for the huge rant, just let me know what you guys think i should do when the sleeves sink again. I fairly sure they will.

thanks,
jack nichols

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Just out of curiocity, who sleeved the block ? Sounds like the same place that did mine back in the day in CT. even getting the same responces as i was getting. Sorry for your loss. move on to the next block and have it sleeved by a reputable company IE bensen or golden eagle

99electron_blue_si

This doesn't sound like darton sleeve woes, so much as poor/inexperienced installation by the machine shop, IMO.

I just got my block back with darton MIDs, so I'm sitting here with my fingers crossed that something like this doesn't happen to me

kbouchard1092

Where they Darton Mids? ALot of people have issues if not done correctly at inexperienced shops. They require additional machining compared to regular sleeves.

I had mine done in CT and it was well worth it. I went to larryspower.com They have alot of experience with Honda and Darton sleeves and they never had a block come back they told me. They just moved into a new warehouse and have some serious equipment there. They charged a little more but have had Zero issues. It was worth it IMO. They also File fitted my rings and bored each sleeve for ptw with the corresponding piston. i had them o-ringed as well. over 2000 miles zero issues

That sucks tho sounds like a big headache.

eg6-jarhead

iTrader: (1)

They are mid's.
I drove it home today. It got hot (210). I believe not having the thermostat in is not letting the coolant to be cooled in the radiator cause it's constantly moving.
Gonna put the thermostat back in and see what happens.
SUCKS NOT BEING ABLE TO TRUST MY CAR

kbouchard1092

Yeah man, most likely the machine shop just isnt qualified for MID installs. I would try getting money back thats crazy. I did alot of research before having mine installed. Like i said the place i went too has millions in equipment and where very familiar with the mid installs hence why they charged more. Everything really has to be spot on with those sleeves. They should never leak/sink period if installed correctly. Sounds like a nightmare. You need to fix it at the route problem (in youre case is the install) Driving around with the thermostat removed is only putting a band-aid on the problem at hand. hate to say it but at this point you might need a new block and have it redone properly. The sleeves might be able to be re-used tho, but im not certain since they were bored out.

ESP.net

Darton MID sleeves are one of the hardest labor sleeves to install. better part of a day and half is what I was told by my reputable machine shop and thus one of the more expensive sleeve installs. My experience has been with the H motors. I haven't had an issue, even after a fried turbo... that caused the motor to heat up.

eg6-jarhead

iTrader: (1)

put the thermostat in and drove to work today. hottest it got was 197, by the time i got to work it was at 186. so thats awesome. i just hope it stays together. the hoses are rock hard still but i think im gonna try a 1.1 bar cap in place of the 1.3 that is on there..

ahobbs

You don't have darton sleeve woes, your machine shop doesnt know what they are doing. Title should be changed to "my machine shop doesn't know how to install darton sleeves".

Darton sleeves are not pressed in.looks like they took way too much material it if they keep sinking. Send it to darton and let them do it themselves or Jim justice

kbouchard1092

the higher pressure cap would make the cooling system more efficent. I agree that the machine shop probably wasnt qualified for a MID install.

eg6-jarhead

iTrader: (1)

i agree on the thread title.. my bad.

i started to ramp up my beatings on the car today. did some 16psi pulls in 4th and its maintaining temp but the hoses are still ROCK hard and that scares me. although its not pushing coolant into the overflow.

Steve D

Well, at first I thought you had 300 series dry sleeves installed when I read about the sleeves sinking, especially after reading the bit about the sleeves seated on the second shelf which makes no sense with MID. I intall the dry liners so they seat on the flange and the bottom of the sleeve for added security against sinking. Never had one of mine come back.

MID sleeves won't sink if correctly installed and the engine is not over heated. The sleeves sit on the bottom of the water jacket. So something was not done correctly.

I am one of the patent holders of the MID sleeves and also Darton's installation center by the way.

Sorry you are having problems with the installation. Next time send the block to Darton to get it machined correctly.

Steve

ahobbs

^^^^ my installer