Elevorett

First of all I want to thank everyone who has helped thus far, wether it be turning a wrench, or lending advise, it's always appreciated. Here is the issue.

Car is a 1992 Civic Si D16z6 turbo.
RC 650 injectors, Eagle rods, Vitara pistons, stock top end, Peakboost t3/t4 turbo kit with tial BOV and wastegate running Hondata s300.

The motor turns over nicely, no leaks or surprises there.

The motor went in nicely, but it won't idle. Furthermore, it won't typically rev over 2k under load, making it unable to drive. We tried loading a few different basemaps but none of them worked, including a D16 turbo basemap, and a P28 basemap with 650 injectors.

Could it be a wiring issue, or maybe a vaccuum issue, or a MAP sensor issue?
Are the RC650's flooding which is why we won't get idle? does it die after 2k because of boost?
It's throwing no codes at all. Motor is a fresh build. Just wondering if any of you have advise. Thanks in advance.

b16_sol_707

when you get on it what is the air fuel at? Is the base map set up for the 650cc injectors?

Elevorett

Yes, all the base maps we have ran are with 650 injectors. We put the stock ones in and it idles at least. I'm not sure what the A/F was at. Do you think it's a tuning issue? Or maybe something else?

b16_sol_707

try it with the stock ecu and injectors, but make sure it does not go into boost.

NACvicSi

Check all your vacuums. It def sounds like a tuning or vacuum issue.

Adam_b16a

Sounds like a tuning issue to me. You should be able to run the car with just the stock ecu and injectors. As long as your not throwing any codes and you have triple checked everything you should be fine. Just get it to a tuner and get everything situated on the dyno.

Elevorett

Thanks for all the replies. It does idle with stock injectors and stock ECU but it runs terribly, meaning it isn't drivable.

We will go over everything again and see where we get..

civic_driver

You can't use a stock MAP sensor because I think it's only 1BAR and you need to get a 2 or 3BAR MAP sensor for boost. I think that might be your problem.

Elevorett

she goes on the dyno tonight, hopefully it's simply a tuning issue.

1992Si

Glad to hear that, hope it's not to late. You can ruin the cylinder walls in a matter of minutes if your not careful.

slow96lude

a stock map sensor will read 11psi and no more than that. if it drops off as soon as you see boost then it is definatly a tuning issue. and as soon as it goes on the dyno it will be just the a click of a button on the computer to fix it so no worries man.

slow96lude

the only thing i see wrong with the equation is the fact that it ran like crap with stock injectors and ecu

civic_driver

You're right. Never mind my post. Even though if you're running more than 10.6psi of boost then you need another map sensor that can read higher boost.

slow96lude

bump on the map sensor but we dont really know what kinda psi he wanting to push but more than likely he wont need a new one

Elevorett

Hi guys, well still in the same situation.
We have ruled out tuning competely. We flew out a guy named Norris from NY to tune some cars and he got a look at mine and couldn't tune it.

Not the dizzy, no vaccuum leaks, not the MAP. (I will be running over 11 PSI but that is later).

Since it couldn't run on stock ECU and injectors we have thought it to be a mechanical problem. We are thinking the cam timing is off? What do you think? We are opening it up tonight.

shifty35

Cam timing is probably off a couple teeth. Compression test?

Any CELs?

Elevorett

no CEL'S except for O2 but we're running open loop on the s3 so that's not an issue. did a compression test, it was 130 across the board (motor hasn't seen the road yet so I assume no ring seat.

Yea so we are looking tonight to see if the cam timing is off.

Jimster480

If it ran like crap with the stock injectors on a stock map then it could be fuel pump, compression problem or a timing issue. if you try running stock components on a tuned map it wont turn out too well. Also do you have a resisitor box installed? because your 650's are going to need a resistor box. What kind of plugs and dizzy are you running? Stock everything? Is it blowing black smoke or any other color smoke? could be a HG leak or flooded in fuel. I had this issue when i was putting the 450 CC's on my vitara setup. Do you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? What kind of fuel pump do you have?

square_1

I don't think it is because his 650s are flooding. On my friends turbo Z6 build we ran 700CC injectors just fine. He ad 440s and had to upgrade cause they weren't pushing enough fuel. He ran it at 15-16 lbs of boost.

I would think maybe a mechanical problem. I recommend not running the engine til you get it figured out. You can mess up your whole build pretty quick.

Elevorett

Thanks for all the comments thus far. And we aren't running it until everything is square.
Fuel pump is stock, but we do have a Walbro ready to install. We aren't running enough fuel pressure to be killing the FP.

I don't run a resistor box because the injectors are *low impedence?* and don't require one.

not the dizzy, tried two. tried two plug sets because first set was fouled. NGK plugs. New wires, cap and rotor.

no colored smoke. No coolant or oil leaks. no visual problems. no adjustable FPR. We have Hondata S3. Not compression because the compression is too consistant to be a problem. Rings haven't seated yet.

We are sure it is timing, but I will let you all know tonight.

Jimster480

Its not the pressure kiling the FP, its the FP on the injectors. If its the stock pressure, a larger injector will push though ALOT more fuel at the same pressure. Low impedence need resistor boxes if im not mistaken. All 92+ US Honda's came with saturated injectors.

You should take a look at this.
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...jectors-30347/

if your running OBD-1 or OBD-2 your going to need a resistor box. Otherwise you can fry the chip in the ECU which controls the injectors. Something you might have already done as seeing your not getting any sufficient amount of power to the injectors.

Elevorett

update. tonight sucked. Confirmed it's not the turbo, map sensor, vaccuum leaks, golden Eagle Vaccuum manifold, injectors, ECU, any tuning issues. Timing and clearances are BANG ON.

We are pulling it back out. It will now idle, which is a plus. But it won't rev past 2k and it we put load on it, it will fall on it's face. We have come to think it's the intake manifold, and that there is a crack somewhere. If that's not it, we pull the motor, put my old one in, and tear this down/build it back up.

any more ideas?

Elevorett

all help and ideas appreciated.

Jimster480

that doesnt make sense. how can it be nothing? it cant be mechanical... Nothing mechanical is going to keep it from revving past 2k. How did you confirm that its not the ECU? You said you couldnt check the ECU? Did you put in a resistor box yet? Because thats probably your injector problem right there. You NEED A RESISTOR BOX FOR LOW IMPEDANCE INJECTORS.

Elevorett

Thanks Jimster. I confirmed that the injectors we are running are High Impedence 750 RC's. Not only that, but we tried the stock injectors too, and same thing. It's not the ECU because we tried the s300 AND the P28 stock ECU. Even tried the S300 with a P28 map with cut back 750 injectors.

One thing though, the S300 we are using doesn't have a boost option on it. Do you think that would make a difference? I don't think so.