EKmitchSI

Hello all. I have a 1999 Honda Civic Si in Tafetta white, bone stock D16Y8 with 220,000 km's on it. I am doing a turbo build over this winter and I am fairly new to the un-naturally aspirated game and I could really use some assistance. I have done many hours of research thus far and I figured starting my own post wouldn't hurt.

I want to have a reliable, fast and fun daily driver come spring. 220HP+. I am posting this thread because:
1) I want to know what you's think about the setup I am choosing to go with.
2) I want to know what you's would recommend/do differently.
3) I would like someone to give me a full rundown on what is needed to do.
4) I do NOT understand the OBD2-OBD1 conversion, ECU chip/tune etc. and if someone could explain this to me it would awesome!
5) Any other tips, tricks or information provided is greatly appreciated.

As of now, this is what I have:

Turbo Parts: Garrett turbo and every other turbo related part is Turbosmart, the only thing I am missing is intercooler piping I believe.

Motor Parts: Eagle H-Beam rods, ACL race bearings and ARP headstuds.

What I want to do:

Turbo Parts: Obviously a full turbo kit (can someone list everything involved that's turbo kit related).

Motor Parts: I want to run about 220+ reliably. I want to do Eagle H-Beam rods, ACL race bearings, ARP head studs, low compression Vitara pistons/rings (standard bore), keep the head stock, bigger injectors (what size?), bigger fuel pump (Walboro 255 I hear is great, any others?). This is pretty much it engine wise.

ECU: From what I've read I need to convert my OBD2b-OBD1, chip the ECU and have it tuned?

Management/Programming: Can someone explain to me what Hondata, Chrome, Neptune etc. is and what it does exactly? Thank you.

Other Questions: Do I need to upgrade my axles or clutch? Etc.

Based on the information provided please provide your feedback on my build. The more information received, the better. Anything helpful is greatly appreciated and I thank you all for your time. I'm not the typical Honda-Tech noob that just posts information before researching, I've done PLENTY of research. Thank you all again.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The y8 is not a reliable motor even in stock trim. Thr crankshaft only has one oiling hole per journal as opposed to two for every other Honda crank. This results in oil starvation and spun bearings, normally a rod bearing will go first.

Also the y8 oil pump sucks. They are very failure prone..

And how do I know all of this? Because my bone stock y8 had the typical pump failure which resulted in spinning every bearing on the crank and rods and it even spun the cam in the head

My advice? Get a z6 bottom end/long block and put the y8 head on it. That will solve all of the potential oiling problems.

Especially since you're going to build the bottom end I would never use a y8 crank. You'd be wasting money because at some point you will spin a bearing using the y8 crank and pump. So either put a z6 crank in your y8 block or find a z6 short block and build that. You'll thank yourself down the road

And vitara pistons on stock length rods results in an almost useless low 7.xx:1 compression ratio. Which means the car will suck to drive out of boost and you'll get shitty gas mileage. Not to mention how much power you're losing even when boosted due to the low cr. The same car on 9:1-10.5:1cr will not only drive better out of boost but will make much more power than the 7.xx:1 cr setup at the same boost level

Find a set of custom length rods or save up and get forged pistons that actually work with stock rod lengths.

And yes you'll need a much stronger clutch. The stock one will cook itself rapidly. You don't need stronger axles... people are making huge amounts of power on stock axles, so your 220hp is no big deal

Secondly your post shows you need to do more research before attempting to booet your car. If you don't know about jumper harnesses, chipped ecus and the various tuning programs available then you need to learn a lot more before you do costly damage to your motor

And I'll say it again, stay away from vitara pistons on stock length rods. The car will literally suck to drive. You'll thank me later for this too

EKmitchSI

Thanks for the reply. Although, I have done plenty of research on the tuning programs, jumper harnesses, chipped ecu's, etc. I just didn't understand it.

So, the Eagle H-Beam rods are stock length, just fatter, correct? So if I'm keeping the Eagle rods, you recommend buying forged pistons? What brand/compression ration do you recommend? From what I've read, Vitara's seemed to be the best bang for your buck, that's why I listed them.

The crank in the Y8 from what I have read is junk and I do agree. So is it okay if I find a Z6 crank and put it in the Y8? Will any modifications be needed? What about the oil pump, upgrade it too? If so, what do you recommend?

The clutch is a stage2 right now, is that good enough? If not, what do you recommend?

Thanks again wantboost!

Hidenplanvew

A6 crank is the same as the z6 too.... I like Aries pistons, but any will work. You would want a compression around 9.0 to 9.5 for off boost. What stage 2 clutch???

EKmitchSI

Okay, thanks for the information Hidenplanvew. The guy I got the EK Si off of said it was an Exedy Stage 2 clutch I believe? I am going to replace it just to be sure anyways, what's recommended?
Thanks.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Don't replace it if nothing is wrong with it. You'll just be wasting money and time

serg86

I'm building pretty much the same thing, and here is my take on it.

the y8 block yes it is the weakest of them all but if that's what you got to work with then go for it, any sohc or dohc motor will eventually blow even with the right parts after time.

you can increase the oil pressure by porting a new oil pump, there is a write up here somewhere that shows how to port it and diy type of thing. or you could buy an already upgraded pump, there is a guy on ebay that sells them, I know the machine shop where these pumps come from and they actually increase your oil psi up to a 200%

the Y8 block does have only one port per journal on cooling oppose to the 2 on the z6 block but what people don't tell you is that they Y8 oil single oil ports to the journals are bigger than the ones one a z6 so with oil pump upgrade you will solve your problem or at least improve it a little

Neptune,chrome andectune...those are tuning sofwares that people here in the U.S developed in reponse to the uberly expensive stand alone computers like AEM EMS or Apexi, motec etc

basically what it is, is a computer program that can be uploaded to a chip (ecu,ecm chip) to modify your fuel, spark delivery among other features, so you can compensate for the extra amount of forced air in to your engine you will need to have a p28 computer from a 92-96 civic 1.6l MT and have a programmable chip solder in to it so any of these tuning programs to be uploaded in to it.

Basically the easy way to say it is for 1 point of air there should be 1 point of gas so you don't blow ur motor like a piñata.

Your car runs in a system called OBD2 and all there is to know is OBD2 is not a friendly base to tune so the easiest way to go about this is to convert to OBD1 which is what civic from 92-95 had....and how do you do tyhis you ask? well first you buya P28 computer or ecm ecu whatever u wanna call it, buy a jumper harness and connect one end of the jumper harness to your computer and the vehicle's harness plugs in to the other end of the jumper harness and tada!! you are running OBD1

well I hope this helps, this is just my opinion there will be people that will disagree with me, but whatever lol

EKmitchSI

Thanks for the response serg86, I wish more people would respond to my post!

If I buy an upgraded oil pump, do I just replace it with the old one? If I were to swap the Y8 crank out for a Z6 crank, is it a direct replacement/fit without any modifications needed? If I do swap out the Z6 crank for the Y8 should I upgrade the oil pump anyways?

Thanks for explaining the Neptune/Chrome softwares.

I understand the OBD2-OBD1 now. But does the new P28 ECU have to be from an OBD1 Civic with a manual transmission+VTEC? Then you chip it and then tune it?

Thanks again for the advice. You should write out what you're going to build so I could compare mine to yours (all parts, modifications, software, etc.)

jimbo slice

A6 and Z6 cranks will fit in the y8 block no problem. No modifications. Just be sure it's a good crank and your clearances are good. I do agree that while the Vitara pistons are cheap, they suck unde boost. Too low of a compression ratio. I'd prefer to run close to 10.0:1, but be cautious: the higher the compression ratio the more precise the tune needs to be.

The only obd2 tunable ecu is an AEM standalone.

If you get a virgin obd1 ecu then it will need to be socketed and chipped. Best bet is to check with xenocron tuning for a socketed ecu. The tuner do the rest.

The ecu doesn't need to be a p28 or vtec ecu or even manual trans to begin with. It can be modded to suit your needs. . But you cannot use Prelude or Accord ecus even though they are obd1.

EKmitchSI

Thanks for the reply jumbo_slice!

I will probably use one of those cranks then. I am looking at going with forged Wiseco or CP pistons with about a 9.0:1 compression ratio. I didn't want to go too high due to the precision tuning.

I will definitely be getting an OBD1 ECU. Who is 'xenocron'? Once the P28 ECU is socketed and chipped, you then get it tuned?

jimbo slice

Xenocron is a company that sells chipped ecus. They do much more, but primarily they sells ecus. You should be able to get in contact with them through this site. I believe they are or were a site sponsor.

serg86

a p28 eco is the ecu that runs the D16Z6 which is the vtec motor used on civics from 92-95. what Jimbo is true but the P28 is the easiest computer to get, because there where so many of them in the road.

with a virgin p28 u can send it to the company you chose and they will provide the chip install it on you mother board and upload the program of you preference. I am going to use Neptune because in my opinion is the best bang for your buck, it has all the same features that the hondata S300 has and its way cheaper.

Now you need to get someone that is familiar with Hondas and the tuning software you are looking to get. the shop where u get the computer chip and software will not tune the computer!!! your car when is all put together needs to be towed to a dyno and then the tuner will tune it to what you want. then take it for a street drive and finish fine tuning it. also keep in mind that some times a winter and a summer tune may be in order (this is optional)

about the engine this is my opinion 240hp you can almost achieve with oem internals a good turbo and an awesome tune. the weak point on the Honda sohc engines are the rods and lubrication, if you are going to use upgraded pistons and rods aim higher on your horse power goal, ive seen DD civics sohc with 400hp. just keep that in mind

serg86

this is a very quick rundown on what im working with my build
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/y8-turbo-bare-me-3171564/

EKmitchSI

Thanks for the confirmation on the P28, I'm getting one of those.

So the company I get the ECU socketed and chipped from installs the software such as Neptune? I was looking at Neptune and that's what I'm going to be going with as well, due to the price and features available too.

Yes, I would like to get anywhere above 220HP+, it would be just fine for me. 260HP-280HP would be exceptional. Yes, I will be upgrading my crank to the Z6, rods, pistons, bearings, fuel pump, injectors, etc. so I will probably shoot a little higher than what I had originally planned (220HP).

The 'Boost Bug' is true. Before I had even considered doing my first turbo build I was planning on using just the stock internals and running between 5-8PSI, oh how times have changed within a month! It's turning out to be a partial motor build with a lot more money and time going to be spent!

serg86

I would just use your y8 crank!, all Honda cranks are forged and balanced to perfection from the factory, the problem with the y8 is not the crank is the lubrication to it that sucks if you get the upgraded oil pump you will almost solve the problem. or make it a little less **** to oil starvation.

and if you have a true garret turbo and you size it correctly you should aim to over 300whp, just remember to get a good tune and a very very good clutch

EKmitchSI

Is there a link you could provide me with to the upgraded oil pump?

Yes, it is a true Garrett turbo, it is approximately the same size as your Holset. If not not it's a tad bit smaller! Yes, a good tune is stuck in my head and what would you recommend for a clutch?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Shimming a pump does not supply more oil. Higher pressure equals lower flow. That's a given. Porting the pump helps but the weak link is the crank and you can't do anything to change it except swap cranks or get a whole bottom end

tron_

First off there are many y7/y8 cars out there running the Endyn oil pump that do not have starvation issues. This is the result of Endyn reworking a factory oil pump to help with the issue of flow and oiling. Is the z6 crank/pump a better option? Yes, probably. But you make it sound like a y8 block is a ticking time bomb no matter what. \

Also, there is no way you will get 9:1 to 10.5:1 compression ratio using a Vitara piston. They have a -16cc dish on them iirc and with a custom length 138.7mm rod you will be at roughly 8.5:1 using a standard thickness head gasket.

EKmitchSI

Thanks for the feedback tron_!

I will probably go with the Z6 crank and upgraded oil pump just to be sure (is there a link you could provide me with to order a pump? I live in Canada too).

I knew the compression ratio would be quite low with Vitara pistons which is why I was originally going to go with them but I never considered the driving performance when not in boost! So now, I'm going with either CP or Wiseco forged pistons, it will probably be Wiseco, which would be about a 9.1:1 compression ratio.

Do you recommend using a thicker head gasket or replacing with an OEM spec one?

tron_

Honestly you're making the right decision going with the z6 crank. Stick with the z6 block and you can run a factory oil pump no problem. My point was that the y7 and y8 setups can last too if they are built with the proper precautionary measures.

Also, good call on going with a forged piston. Many people claim Vitaras are great because they are so cheap (and yes, they are cheap) but forged pistons are much better in every other aspect and provide more peace of mind imo.

I would stick with a factory thickness gasket. Many people argue OEM vs. Cometic but either is fine. Check out this link to calculate your desired compression ratio:
http://www.zealautowerks.com/dseries.html

As far as where to order from, I'm afraid I can't help you on that one. Living in Detroit now .

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I never said you'd have compression that high with vitaras. If you noticed I said get a set of forged pistons around that compression ratio

While the endyn pump might help it's still a bandaid for a poorly designed crank oiling system

serg86

I agree forged pistons are way better, but if you wanna keep the price of the build reasonable. check this guys out

http://www.rcautoworksstore.com/cut/...2b9f6a52e60633

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

So RC finally got their custom length vitara rods done. That's awesome. Because the other company that was the main supplier (FJT) went out of business

With the custom length rods vitaras will be fine to use because it brings the compression ratio up to a much more reasonable level

serg86

yeah that's what im using!

jimbo slice

My take on this y8 crank debat is this : if we have to modify the oil pump to help keep theses engines alive, even with stock internals, then there is an inherant design flaw and it should not be looked at as an option for racing purposes.

Knowing that A6 and Z6 cranks work and are better for oil flow I don't see the need to stick with the y8 crank.