Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars?
11-15-2004, 09:41 AM
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Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars?
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/traction/
"Front wheel drive cars
If your powerful front wheel drive car is prone to wheelspin or power understeer, then the Traction Control system will give a good benefit. Coming out of tight hairpins the throttle can be buried, and the system modulates the power extremely quickly to provide maximum acceleration without wasteful wheelspin. As you turn into a corner, the throttle again can be buried, and instead of drifting wide of the apex as the front wheels scrabble for grip, the car will power through the corner at the maximum speed without understeering. This will reduce tyre wear quite considerably, and improve performance. In the wet the system comes into it's own, you will go at least 1 or 2 seconds per kilometre quicker, and in tight slippery conditions it will be much more. We have fitted the system to a number of tarmac cars, and in the wet they even outpace some 4wd cars! "
"Front wheel drive cars
If your powerful front wheel drive car is prone to wheelspin or power understeer, then the Traction Control system will give a good benefit. Coming out of tight hairpins the throttle can be buried, and the system modulates the power extremely quickly to provide maximum acceleration without wasteful wheelspin. As you turn into a corner, the throttle again can be buried, and instead of drifting wide of the apex as the front wheels scrabble for grip, the car will power through the corner at the maximum speed without understeering. This will reduce tyre wear quite considerably, and improve performance. In the wet the system comes into it's own, you will go at least 1 or 2 seconds per kilometre quicker, and in tight slippery conditions it will be much more. We have fitted the system to a number of tarmac cars, and in the wet they even outpace some 4wd cars! "
11-15-2004, 09:48 AM
#2
Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (Boostage)
It works.
I drove a p00pra making around 700 RWHP with this, on 19" rubber band street tires. Smoothed out the transition into boost and kept from ripping them loose. I would run AEM's built in traction control, or something more advanced like the traction control built into haltech before I would buy an aftermarket box though.
I drove a p00pra making around 700 RWHP with this, on 19" rubber band street tires. Smoothed out the transition into boost and kept from ripping them loose. I would run AEM's built in traction control, or something more advanced like the traction control built into haltech before I would buy an aftermarket box though.
11-15-2004, 09:53 AM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (Boostage)
Interesting but Honda's don't have traction control already on them so it says you would have to add some wheel sensors and I can imagine that it would get expensive. Plus they don't have a honda application to begin with so who knows.
Interesting thought though
Interesting thought though
11-15-2004, 09:56 AM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (boosted92)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It works.
I drove a p00pra making around 700 RWHP with this, on 19" rubber band street tires. Smoothed out the transition into boost and kept from ripping them loose. I would run AEM's built in traction control, or something more advanced like the traction control built into haltech before I would buy an aftermarket box though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have AEM ems and I still contemplating this one. it has individual wheel sensors. but with aem it doesnt. you basically have to datalog a perfect run and then dial out timing to cut down power if wheel spin occurs, the problem I see with that is. it will cut the same amount of power whether u lost traction because of a mildy wet surface, or because your tires pressure is a bit high or the tire is getting a bit old ect etc
but having wheel sensors will allow u to adjust to any of these conditions without pulling too much power. so I would think this would be better than the AEM traction control
I drove a p00pra making around 700 RWHP with this, on 19" rubber band street tires. Smoothed out the transition into boost and kept from ripping them loose. I would run AEM's built in traction control, or something more advanced like the traction control built into haltech before I would buy an aftermarket box though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have AEM ems and I still contemplating this one. it has individual wheel sensors. but with aem it doesnt. you basically have to datalog a perfect run and then dial out timing to cut down power if wheel spin occurs, the problem I see with that is. it will cut the same amount of power whether u lost traction because of a mildy wet surface, or because your tires pressure is a bit high or the tire is getting a bit old ect etc
but having wheel sensors will allow u to adjust to any of these conditions without pulling too much power. so I would think this would be better than the AEM traction control
11-15-2004, 09:57 AM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (UtahRockabilly)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UtahRockabilly »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting but Honda's don't have traction control already on them so it says you would have to add some wheel sensors and I can imagine that it would get expensive. Plus they don't have a honda application to begin with so who knows.
Interesting thought though</TD></TR></TABLE>
my Civic has 4 disc abs so it wouldnt be a problem for me, but U can pay extra for wheel sensors if you dont have any they said. and the system is universal.
Interesting thought though</TD></TR></TABLE>
my Civic has 4 disc abs so it wouldnt be a problem for me, but U can pay extra for wheel sensors if you dont have any they said. and the system is universal.
11-15-2004, 01:34 PM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (DIRep972)
I used to scroll bimmerforums a lot and they have had great success with those systems.
I doubt there is much information regarding one of those on a honda here at HT, but bump for you anyways
I doubt there is much information regarding one of those on a honda here at HT, but bump for you anyways
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11-15-2004, 01:57 PM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hows it modulate the power? pulls timing or what?</TD></TR></TABLE>
11-15-2004, 04:23 PM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hows it modulate the power? pulls timing or what?</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/traction/faq.htm
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/traction/faq.htm
11-15-2004, 04:35 PM
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Q:- I am concerned that the system cuts fuel, and I have a highly modified turbo engine, which if it runs lean will cause instant damage. How safe is the Racelogic system on these types of engine?
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
11-15-2004, 04:39 PM
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Re: (tegmech)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegmech »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Q:- I am concerned that the system cuts fuel, and I have a highly modified turbo engine, which if it runs lean will cause instant damage. How safe is the Racelogic system on these types of engine?
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats how stock dsm and supra rev limiters work, they cut fuel, not spark. thats why they made fuel cut defenders
http://www.turbosmart.com.au/f...s.htm
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats how stock dsm and supra rev limiters work, they cut fuel, not spark. thats why they made fuel cut defenders
http://www.turbosmart.com.au/f...s.htm
11-15-2004, 05:05 PM
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Re: (Boostage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thats how stock dsm and supra rev limiters work, they cut fuel, not spark. thats why they made fuel cut defenders
http://www.turbosmart.com.au/f...s.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>
its also how uberdata's full throttle launch and shift work. humm....i wonder if they could write a script to do this? interesting
Thats how stock dsm and supra rev limiters work, they cut fuel, not spark. thats why they made fuel cut defenders
http://www.turbosmart.com.au/f...s.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>
its also how uberdata's full throttle launch and shift work. humm....i wonder if they could write a script to do this? interesting
11-15-2004, 05:34 PM
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Re: (Mikes01GSR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mikes01GSR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man if something like this would work it would be a God sent. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's the thing, it does work. I prefer the AEM system because you can take a varying amount of power out of the engine based on engine speed, load, TPS, and gear. If you're in third gear slowly accelerating in vacuum and your tires are slipping a bit it isn't even going to notice because it's only programmed to limit slip when you're driving agressively, IE, high throttle, boosting, high RPM's, etc. Plus you can have it take out boost, so if you downshift and hit full boost in a gear and light up the tires it can dial it back which is nice. I havn't done much fiddling with it (mainly because I don't have a laptop
) but I figure with a good 10 hours spread out over a weekend I could get it working quite well.
That's the thing, it does work. I prefer the AEM system because you can take a varying amount of power out of the engine based on engine speed, load, TPS, and gear. If you're in third gear slowly accelerating in vacuum and your tires are slipping a bit it isn't even going to notice because it's only programmed to limit slip when you're driving agressively, IE, high throttle, boosting, high RPM's, etc. Plus you can have it take out boost, so if you downshift and hit full boost in a gear and light up the tires it can dial it back which is nice. I havn't done much fiddling with it (mainly because I don't have a laptop
) but I figure with a good 10 hours spread out over a weekend I could get it working quite well.
11-15-2004, 05:57 PM
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Re: (boosted92)
I think this is a great product but (don't know if the pricing is current) for the $1200 they want for this device I could sell my hondata and buy an ems already equiped with the feature..
Just my 0.02 cents
Just my 0.02 cents
11-15-2004, 06:29 PM
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Re: (newgsr)
I have the Racelogic system but have yet to install it . It uses stock ABS sensors or after marketwheel sensors the company sells . It will work on anything with fuel injection, You can either have it limit timming , boost ( Via a soloniod) or cut fuel. Alot of Supra guys run them I talked to and had great luck with it .
I will use it on my new project and see how it works.
I will use it on my new project and see how it works.
11-15-2004, 08:03 PM
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Re: (CRVRX)
it'd be cool if they made a system that read tire slip through the ABS sensors and viewed them in real time to make the changes neccessary. So you wouldnt have to select between some "generic" wet/dry and % choices. There are a lot of others variables I'm sure.
11-15-2004, 08:14 PM
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Re: (AVATAR)
That's how it works, You tell it 10% , 20 % etc , If the drive wheels spin X times faster than the trailing wheels it will limit power untill they catch , Up have a demo on there site of before and fter on an M3.
11-15-2004, 09:24 PM
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Re: (Bryson)
Without ABS you must mount wheel speed sensors. Not too difficult, depending on what equipment is available to you. And as I understand it this is very different from a normal fuel cut, Racelogic cuts fuel only for one pulse at a time, a rev-limiting fuel cut will cut many pulses at a time for the "stutter." Racelogic will simply decrease power output by cutting a SINGLE injector pulse at a time.
11-16-2004, 08:45 AM
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Re: (Bryson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bryson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sooo...basically it wouldn't work if you don't have ABS?
well thats gay.</TD></TR></TABLE>
no, u can buy their wheel sensors and it will work, thats why its a universal system
well thats gay.
</TD></TR></TABLE>no, u can buy their wheel sensors and it will work, thats why its a universal system
01-03-2005, 02:55 PM
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Re: Could this be a solution for traction problems in big HP cars? (Boostage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have AEM ems and I still contemplating this one. it has individual wheel sensors. but with aem it doesnt. you basically have to datalog a perfect run and then dial out timing to cut down power if wheel spin occurs, </TD></TR></TABLE>
WOW, that is completely gay. Boost cut I could see, timing cut in a big power ride sets you up for excessive EGT and engine meltdown. Well, I'm not surprised given the average AEM OMG WTF EMS owner/tuner I meet...
Last I knew, Haltech has two flavors of EMS: dinosaur, and problem child. I'd rather have the Racelogic unit.
Installing 4-wheel ABS is junk - most of the big power boys run axle heads that don't incorporate ABS sensor rings. Those still running stock hubs tend to run Accord heads that do not have ABS rings. Besides, it is not needed, at least for a simple big power FWD drag race application.
VSS generates two pulses for every revolution of the front wheels. ABS rear disc brake swaps are easy to come by - I have a set myself. A quick comparo of the two should work great.
FYI, the Racelogic unit takes basic microcontroller skills to build - a $30 book on PIC micros or one of those nifty DIY battlebot books tells all. VTEC loving stunnas need not apply.
WOW, that is completely gay. Boost cut I could see, timing cut in a big power ride sets you up for excessive EGT and engine meltdown. Well, I'm not surprised given the average AEM OMG WTF EMS owner/tuner I meet...
Last I knew, Haltech has two flavors of EMS: dinosaur, and problem child. I'd rather have the Racelogic unit.
Installing 4-wheel ABS is junk - most of the big power boys run axle heads that don't incorporate ABS sensor rings. Those still running stock hubs tend to run Accord heads that do not have ABS rings. Besides, it is not needed, at least for a simple big power FWD drag race application.
VSS generates two pulses for every revolution of the front wheels. ABS rear disc brake swaps are easy to come by - I have a set myself. A quick comparo of the two should work great.
FYI, the Racelogic unit takes basic microcontroller skills to build - a $30 book on PIC micros or one of those nifty DIY battlebot books tells all. VTEC loving stunnas need not apply.
