Offer

Hey....Im running the Edelbrock turbo kit (gt28r with internal wastegate) on a d16y8 engine, The wastegate has been ported out due to big boost creeping issues on the dyno...after having it ported..it held boost fine in 4th gear...but when you punch it from a roll in 1st, 2nd or third...it sometimes sees 14 to 15 psi...very bad, everyone who has this kit..complains about the crappy internal wastegate design...Anyways, I've now decided to do a external conversion. All I wanna run is 8.5 to 9 psi max at all times. Now I have the original edelbrock manifold I wanna weld a flange for the wastegate on it because i dont feel like getting another manifold and having to modify downpipe, charge pipe and so on...So for this setup, I'm assuming i should go with a tial 38 mm wategate...

Here's what I had in mind of doing :


original pic:


do you think this will work fine or will I run into the same creeping issues

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that will work. I would position it slightly to the right (where it says edlebrock). The middle of the manifold seems like it would be a difficult place to weld a flange. I have never seen an internal wastegate that holds the proper low boost level.

Offer

Thanks for giving me hope hehee....were gonna have someone mill a flange to match the pattern of the top of the manifold and were gonna weld it on. You're right about that...thats why they designed this kit to work at 7 psi with basically stock cat with a after market cat-back at most....there is like no room to upgrade without modifications with this kit..soon as you put a test pipe of some sort...creep !!!!

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I made that mistake with the last turbo I had on my Talon (evo316g). Tried to run 15psi and it would go right to 25+psi (internal wastegate). My 20g is holding 27psi rock solid with a 38mm TiAL wastegate.

HiProfile

FYI Lower boost is harder to control than high boost. Higher backpressure in the exhaust and/or downpipe (like that cast DP) as well as combining them will make the wastegate less effective.

If you are to weld a flange on there, I'd recommend having the manifold stress-relieved first, then using a thick 1/2" flange that's been ground down (moulded) to the curves for that spot. Thats a common spot for all cast manifolds like that (from DSM to Volvo to Revhard) to crack due to it being the hottest part as well as holding the most weight. A local machine shop could tell you where to go for stress-relieving, as well as make that extra-thick flange and weld it.

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FYI Lower boost is harder to control than high boost. Higher backpressure in the exhaust and/or downpipe (like that cast DP) as well as combining them will make the wastegate less effective.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct

Offer

[QUOTE=HiProfile]FYI Lower boost is harder to control than high boost. Higher backpressure in the exhaust and/or downpipe (like that cast DP) as well as combining them will make the wastegate less effective.

Well the downpipe itself isn't cast, only that elbow piece is...but anyway you think it will still creep even with the external wastegate ?

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

No.

DaveF

i dont see why the OP cant just get a weld el, and weld that to the mani, and put the wg flange on the el. ....

imo, it would be a pita trying to mill cut grind a flange to fit all those differant contours.

Offer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont see why the OP cant just get a weld el, and weld that to the mani, and put the wg flange on the el. ....

imo, it would be a pita trying to mill cut grind a flange to fit all those differant contours.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You mean something like this ??



Would that be easier ?

DaveF

exactly !

Tjabo

Do you have someone who can weld that cast iron for you? That's not a job for an amateur (like me )!

StolenTeg

Would be a lot easier to buy a log manifold that is flange for your turbo with external wastegate

rainmanEK

Welding on that cast manifold is going to cause you more headaches down the road!

It would prolly cost less and be eaiser to just buy a log d16 manifold with external wastegate!

Eric

Offer

Believe me..I know you guys are right...I would have bought a manifold a long time ago...But I wanna keep my A/C and I dont wanna have to modify the DP and charge pipe and so on....I'm having a good welder weld on the el pipe for me....he saw it and he said it shouldn't be too hard to weld

Offer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'd recommend having the manifold stress-relieved first, then using a thick 1/2" flange that's been ground down (moulded) to the curves for that spot. Thats a common spot for all cast manifolds like that (from DSM to Volvo to Revhard) to crack due to it being the hottest part as well as holding the most weight. A local machine shop could tell you where to go for stress-relieving</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that like a heating process before you start welding on it ?

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Offer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is that like a heating process before you start welding on it ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Welding cast has a lot to due with the post processing and after treatment of it. You need to heat it up before you weld it, then when your done you toss it into a bucket of sand to let it cool slowly.

Offer

Where can I find one of those el pipes ?

RCautoworks

http://www.acestainless.com , tell Big Rich I sent you

Offer

can you weld stainless on to the cast or only the regular steel

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Offer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can you weld stainless on to the cast or only the regular steel</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep

nihad

iTrader: (2)

we used a walmart cheap welder the 110 mig welder and it does the job pretty well
the ones with out gas.

Tjabo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nihad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we used a walmart cheap welder the 110 mig welder and it does the job pretty well
the ones with out gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're saying you welded cast iron with a flux core mig? Wow!

Did you preheat the cast iron or anything?

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont see why the OP cant just get a weld el, and weld that to the mani, and put the wg flange on the el. ....

imo, it would be a pita trying to mill cut grind a flange to fit all those differant contours.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, I didn't think of that because I'm so used to WG's right on the manifold now. That would be easier since you won't need an extra-thick flange, have less to weld, and could shape it to the contour of the manifold.

I recall someone here welding a flange to an HF manifold, and to make it worse, he had the welder fill a rather large gap. I know it saw quite a bit of use and hadn't cracked - and thats on 15 year-old cast iron made for 90 BHP...

Stress relieving is basicly vibrating and/or altering the temp to reduce stress w/in the grain...or so. I'm not up to the speed on the process, but I do know the place I worked at always had large drilling machines w/welded frames (6x6 square, 3/8" wall stuff) put through the process, as they were dealing with very tight tollerances on the machines, and a single little crack would essentially ruin the machine.

You can weld stainless with mild steel, but its the steel to cast iron that would be more of an issue. It would be best if it was done properly, preheating it and TIG'd using special fillers. It has to due to the porosity of the cast iron as well as the materials added to the iron. Thats were stress relieving afterwords would help.

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I recall someone here welding a flange to an HF manifold, and to make it worse, he had the welder fill a rather large gap. I know it saw quite a bit of use and hadn't cracked - and thats on 15 year-old cast iron made for 90 BHP</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to do this very same thing on an hf manifold soon, if people would like I can do a walk threw step. I'm not welding the flange on the manifold, to hard to get the contours to fit. I will be using a 90 el sanded to match the surface.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nihad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we used a walmart cheap welder the 110 mig welder and it does the job pretty well
the ones with out gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to see pics so I can judge what your definition means when you say pretty well. Even then, looks are not everything, like I said its all about the post and pre-process treatment.