Confused on B or K series
03-01-2014, 10:11 PM
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Confused on B or K series
Hi, I'm pretty much new in the Honda field. I been thinking of doing a B or K series swap in my Civic. What Ive read so far that K24 is the best to go with. I want to add turbo, so in that case I read turbo is best with B series. Why? The K24 block cant handle the boost? Or just work better on a B series. Can someone clarify? Thanks
03-01-2014, 10:21 PM
#2
Re: Confused on B or K series
Before you even start considering what motor you want, you need to figure out how much money you have to spend (no, "I'm not worried about my budget" is not a valid answer), how much power you want, what you want to use the car for, and most importantly, what car are you going to put it in. Those four things are the main start for you.
03-01-2014, 10:34 PM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
Before you even start considering what motor you want, you need to figure out how much money you have to spend (no, "I'm not worried about my budget" is not a valid answer), how much power you want, what you want to use the car for, and most importantly, what car are you going to put it in. Those four things are the main start for you.
Power: 300-400hp
Purpose:- DD, occasional track
Budget: I think it mostly comes down to the turbo setup because any motor mods or machining i have the skills and resources to buy and do my own work. I wouldnt mind it being a year project because I have another car to drive while I am doing this project.
I am just new in the turbo area. Is one block stronger than the other? Is it similar to the F22/H22 situation?
03-01-2014, 10:47 PM
#4
Re: Confused on B or K series
See, the one thing I said you can't waffle about, and you waffled...Unless you have the skills and resources to forge pistons and rods, quite frankly you don't have everything necessary.
Regardless, at the end of the day, you can make 400 with a B18 swap, some forged internals, and a properly sized turbo. A turbo B will be cheaper than a turbo K, so there you go.
Regardless, at the end of the day, you can make 400 with a B18 swap, some forged internals, and a properly sized turbo. A turbo B will be cheaper than a turbo K, so there you go.
03-01-2014, 10:55 PM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
I am kind of in the same situation. If money is no object I would go K series. Better head design and roler cams, VTC etc. Bigger engine as a k24 means generaly larger powerband and more overall tourqe.
Down side is it is easyer to brake trannys with a k24 and stock tranny. You need a gearset earlyer with k 24 compared to b series. I hate tuning the 26 fuel, ignition maps in kpro that comes with vtc. B series is only two or max 4 depending on ecu. I have very little experience with any other ecu than hondata for k series so AEM might be better. K series oil system is weaker than the b series. K have not so wide rod bearings on top of that. K series is sensitive on oil starvation around the oil pickup especially if doing any kind of autocross with R compounds. If it is a serious build I would go drysump pretty early compared to b series. Also timing chain on k are prone to failing with aftermarket cams etc. K needs a little more supporting mods and the k stuff is more expensive. K series needs a good shifting mechanism since that it is easy to go into the wrong gear with stock equipment and a aftermarket clutch. A serious shifter like the k-tuned or hybrid racing with bushings and cables makes it alot better but again costs more. B series don´t have that problem as much since they have linkage instead.
So it is up to your budget and what you want and the intended use.
Down side is it is easyer to brake trannys with a k24 and stock tranny. You need a gearset earlyer with k 24 compared to b series. I hate tuning the 26 fuel, ignition maps in kpro that comes with vtc. B series is only two or max 4 depending on ecu. I have very little experience with any other ecu than hondata for k series so AEM might be better. K series oil system is weaker than the b series. K have not so wide rod bearings on top of that. K series is sensitive on oil starvation around the oil pickup especially if doing any kind of autocross with R compounds. If it is a serious build I would go drysump pretty early compared to b series. Also timing chain on k are prone to failing with aftermarket cams etc. K needs a little more supporting mods and the k stuff is more expensive. K series needs a good shifting mechanism since that it is easy to go into the wrong gear with stock equipment and a aftermarket clutch. A serious shifter like the k-tuned or hybrid racing with bushings and cables makes it alot better but again costs more. B series don´t have that problem as much since they have linkage instead.
So it is up to your budget and what you want and the intended use.
03-01-2014, 11:30 PM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
for the average person with little to no mechanical skills and not having any Honda connections, you're looking at roughly 10,000USD for a turn key k series swap installed, this is just a stock motor
people have made 700+ hp on stock k series bottom ends, highly built NA K24s are making over 300hp
b series are much cheaper and they still have more aftermarket support and support by individuals than any other Honda motor, so parts are plentiful and cheap
400 is a stretch on a stock b series bottom end, even with e85... if you want it to be reliable.
people have made 700+ hp on stock k series bottom ends, highly built NA K24s are making over 300hp
b series are much cheaper and they still have more aftermarket support and support by individuals than any other Honda motor, so parts are plentiful and cheap
400 is a stretch on a stock b series bottom end, even with e85... if you want it to be reliable.
03-01-2014, 11:37 PM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
the other issue is the fact that your car is OBD2, so any b series swap must be OBD2 in order for you to pass emissions.. this isn't hard as the civic came with OBD2 b series motors. The wiring is a whole separate issue for k swaps into civics as you have to wire every sensor to the ecu, most of which have to come from an OEM equipped k series car. there are more sensors than what's on the motor, there are sensors on the chassis as well... like the fuel tank and such
most OEM sensors don't transfer from b to k and vice versa
you need to decide on a rock solid budget before making any decision... quality turbo components for a k series motor, plus the cost of the swap, supporting modifications, plus a tune a such puts you well over 15,000 dollars.
and what does "track" mean? drag, road course, etc... there's more than one kind of racing
most OEM sensors don't transfer from b to k and vice versa
you need to decide on a rock solid budget before making any decision... quality turbo components for a k series motor, plus the cost of the swap, supporting modifications, plus a tune a such puts you well over 15,000 dollars.
and what does "track" mean? drag, road course, etc... there's more than one kind of racing
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03-01-2014, 11:49 PM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
I don't get why people spend so much on a k swap.... at that point it's not financially intelligent. it's still a Honda at the end of the day and you'll never see that money again.
sorry but it's the truth lol, I might love my Hondas but I'll never put 15k into just a swap alone... I can justify spending that on our z06 track car because it's a supercar and is appreciating in value.
at some point there needs to be a common sense point where you go enough is enough. I could see it if you can get a motor, trans and wiring cheap (wrecked car or from a friend) and are able to do the swap on your own because the cost is fairly low
when paying full price from a motor from a shop, importer, junkyard, etc. on too of paying a shop for labor and parts as well as wiring the car *biggest labor cost and hard to find a shop to do it clean and correctly* (if you let them have your old motor sometimes they'll drop the price a bit because they'll sell, use, or do something with the motor) then it gets expensive really quick
sorry but it's the truth lol, I might love my Hondas but I'll never put 15k into just a swap alone... I can justify spending that on our z06 track car because it's a supercar and is appreciating in value.
at some point there needs to be a common sense point where you go enough is enough. I could see it if you can get a motor, trans and wiring cheap (wrecked car or from a friend) and are able to do the swap on your own because the cost is fairly low
when paying full price from a motor from a shop, importer, junkyard, etc. on too of paying a shop for labor and parts as well as wiring the car *biggest labor cost and hard to find a shop to do it clean and correctly* (if you let them have your old motor sometimes they'll drop the price a bit because they'll sell, use, or do something with the motor) then it gets expensive really quick
03-02-2014, 07:48 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
See, the one thing I said you can't waffle about, and you waffled...Unless you have the skills and resources to forge pistons and rods, quite frankly you don't have everything necessary.
Regardless, at the end of the day, you can make 400 with a B18 swap, some forged internals, and a properly sized turbo. A turbo B will be cheaper than a turbo K, so there you go.
Regardless, at the end of the day, you can make 400 with a B18 swap, some forged internals, and a properly sized turbo. A turbo B will be cheaper than a turbo K, so there you go.
03-02-2014, 07:52 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
I am kind of in the same situation. If money is no object I would go K series. Better head design and roler cams, VTC etc. Bigger engine as a k24 means generaly larger powerband and more overall tourqe.
Down side is it is easyer to brake trannys with a k24 and stock tranny. You need a gearset earlyer with k 24 compared to b series. I hate tuning the 26 fuel, ignition maps in kpro that comes with vtc. B series is only two or max 4 depending on ecu. I have very little experience with any other ecu than hondata for k series so AEM might be better. K series oil system is weaker than the b series. K have not so wide rod bearings on top of that. K series is sensitive on oil starvation around the oil pickup especially if doing any kind of autocross with R compounds. If it is a serious build I would go drysump pretty early compared to b series. Also timing chain on k are prone to failing with aftermarket cams etc. K needs a little more supporting mods and the k stuff is more expensive. K series needs a good shifting mechanism since that it is easy to go into the wrong gear with stock equipment and a aftermarket clutch. A serious shifter like the k-tuned or hybrid racing with bushings and cables makes it alot better but again costs more. B series don´t have that problem as much since they have linkage instead.
So it is up to your budget and what you want and the intended use.
Down side is it is easyer to brake trannys with a k24 and stock tranny. You need a gearset earlyer with k 24 compared to b series. I hate tuning the 26 fuel, ignition maps in kpro that comes with vtc. B series is only two or max 4 depending on ecu. I have very little experience with any other ecu than hondata for k series so AEM might be better. K series oil system is weaker than the b series. K have not so wide rod bearings on top of that. K series is sensitive on oil starvation around the oil pickup especially if doing any kind of autocross with R compounds. If it is a serious build I would go drysump pretty early compared to b series. Also timing chain on k are prone to failing with aftermarket cams etc. K needs a little more supporting mods and the k stuff is more expensive. K series needs a good shifting mechanism since that it is easy to go into the wrong gear with stock equipment and a aftermarket clutch. A serious shifter like the k-tuned or hybrid racing with bushings and cables makes it alot better but again costs more. B series don´t have that problem as much since they have linkage instead.
So it is up to your budget and what you want and the intended use.
03-02-2014, 07:58 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
for the average person with little to no mechanical skills and not having any Honda connections, you're looking at roughly 10,000USD for a turn key k series swap installed, this is just a stock motor
people have made 700+ hp on stock k series bottom ends, highly built NA K24s are making over 300hp
b series are much cheaper and they still have more aftermarket support and support by individuals than any other Honda motor, so parts are plentiful and cheap
400 is a stretch on a stock b series bottom end, even with e85... if you want it to be reliable.
people have made 700+ hp on stock k series bottom ends, highly built NA K24s are making over 300hp
b series are much cheaper and they still have more aftermarket support and support by individuals than any other Honda motor, so parts are plentiful and cheap
400 is a stretch on a stock b series bottom end, even with e85... if you want it to be reliable.
03-02-2014, 08:03 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
the other issue is the fact that your car is OBD2, so any b series swap must be OBD2 in order for you to pass emissions.. this isn't hard as the civic came with OBD2 b series motors. The wiring is a whole separate issue for k swaps into civics as you have to wire every sensor to the ecu, most of which have to come from an OEM equipped k series car. there are more sensors than what's on the motor, there are sensors on the chassis as well... like the fuel tank and such
most OEM sensors don't transfer from b to k and vice versa
you need to decide on a rock solid budget before making any decision... quality turbo components for a k series motor, plus the cost of the swap, supporting modifications, plus a tune a such puts you well over 15,000 dollars.
and what does "track" mean? drag, road course, etc... there's more than one kind of racing
most OEM sensors don't transfer from b to k and vice versa
you need to decide on a rock solid budget before making any decision... quality turbo components for a k series motor, plus the cost of the swap, supporting modifications, plus a tune a such puts you well over 15,000 dollars.
and what does "track" mean? drag, road course, etc... there's more than one kind of racing
03-02-2014, 08:10 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
I don't get why people spend so much on a k swap.... at that point it's not financially intelligent. it's still a Honda at the end of the day and you'll never see that money again.
sorry but it's the truth lol, I might love my Hondas but I'll never put 15k into just a swap alone... I can justify spending that on our z06 track car because it's a supercar and is appreciating in value.
at some point there needs to be a common sense point where you go enough is enough. I could see it if you can get a motor, trans and wiring cheap (wrecked car or from a friend) and are able to do the swap on your own because the cost is fairly low
when paying full price from a motor from a shop, importer, junkyard, etc. on too of paying a shop for labor and parts as well as wiring the car *biggest labor cost and hard to find a shop to do it clean and correctly* (if you let them have your old motor sometimes they'll drop the price a bit because they'll sell, use, or do something with the motor) then it gets expensive really quick
sorry but it's the truth lol, I might love my Hondas but I'll never put 15k into just a swap alone... I can justify spending that on our z06 track car because it's a supercar and is appreciating in value.
at some point there needs to be a common sense point where you go enough is enough. I could see it if you can get a motor, trans and wiring cheap (wrecked car or from a friend) and are able to do the swap on your own because the cost is fairly low
when paying full price from a motor from a shop, importer, junkyard, etc. on too of paying a shop for labor and parts as well as wiring the car *biggest labor cost and hard to find a shop to do it clean and correctly* (if you let them have your old motor sometimes they'll drop the price a bit because they'll sell, use, or do something with the motor) then it gets expensive really quick
03-02-2014, 08:42 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
Bro, if your not buying top of the line parts around here you're doing it wrong.
Ill make it easy for you.
Go autoworks kit
Turbo from theshodan
Ignitor bypass from turbo-ls
Fuel system from full blown
Tune at ddtech
If you do anything different you might as well get an ebay kit.
Ill make it easy for you.
Go autoworks kit
Turbo from theshodan
Ignitor bypass from turbo-ls
Fuel system from full blown
Tune at ddtech
If you do anything different you might as well get an ebay kit.
03-02-2014, 09:03 AM
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Re: Confused on B or K series
doing a k will cost from 3-10k.. depending how much you wanna spend. now if you get rods and pistons for a b and slap a head on it (aussming you dont have vtec) and a decent turbo kit your good up to like 400whp. so with a turbo kit, head and pistons and rods you;ll be at like 2500...
03-02-2014, 09:23 AM
#18
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Re: Confused on B or K series
Bro, if your not buying top of the line parts around here you're doing it wrong.
Ill make it easy for you.
Go autoworks kit
Turbo from theshodan
Ignitor bypass from turbo-ls
Fuel system from full blown
Tune at ddtech
If you do anything different you might as well get an ebay kit.
Ill make it easy for you.
Go autoworks kit
Turbo from theshodan
Ignitor bypass from turbo-ls
Fuel system from full blown
Tune at ddtech
If you do anything different you might as well get an ebay kit.
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