blundar

I've seen some interesting posts lately from SEFIxCivic, tony1 and others who are replacing the stock honda ignition system.

I'm looking for some coilpacks (either coil-on-plug or just independent coil) to fit onto D, B, H and F motors that traditionally have used distributors. I think using something that is not coil-on-plug would probably suit my goals better, but I'm not firm about this. I need modules that are capable of regulating their own charge/dwell and being triggered by a logic(ish) level signal.

I saw some interesting points in some of the past threads about the energy of various setups, and I'm curious what people have to say. I'm also curious if any COP systems are appropriate length to work with D/B series motors without modification. I'm not really looking to get into purpose-built race units as much as find a relatively inexpensive OEM unit (that can be found in yards) that provides a significant increase in energy over OEM, particularly at high RPMs.

Obvious choices:
CBR bike coils (coilpack)
K series (COP)
D17 (COP)
RX7 (coilpack)
DSM (coilpack)
Ford EDIS Coils (Coilpack/COP depending on vintage)

I've heard very good things about the RX7 coils, and I'm figuring that most of the Honda bike stuff is probably massively over-engineered to deal with the high revs those bikes see. Any suggestions or experiences would be great.

Thanks in advance,
-Dave

HRTuning

This should be interesting... Subscribed...

YiNYaNg

Is there a way to swap a D17 direct ignition coil pack into a OBD1 D16Z6?

I sure would want to know how to do it?

FormulaGSR

how do you trigger the coils?


there has to be a way to do this with off the shelf parts

PrettyLude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HRTuning &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This should be interesting... Subscribed... </TD></TR></TABLE>

me 2

kungfuSiR

iTrader: (1)

You trigger the coils using a crank trigger, or the setup offered by tony1 which mounts a magnetic sensor that takes readings from your cam gears.

This type of setup has to be run with a compatible standalone, like AEM, autronic, motronic, etc, i don't see it working with a stock honda computer

Widebody1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kungfuSiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This type of setup has to be run with a compatible standalone, like AEM, autronic, motronic, etc, i don't see it working with a stock honda computer</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats probably why dave is asking the question. So he can figure it out Bump

Jaker

It can be done with the Honda OEM ECU:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=872449

blundar

Ok, yes someone tipped me off on an exceedingly simple way to do it (from an engineering perspective, at least) with the stock ECU, or *any* distributor that provides a CYP signal or similar used to index cylinders in a MPFI setup. I'm not just talking hondas here.

I know this is honda-tech and if the signal/noise ratio wasn't garbage it wouldn't be honda-tech, but please for the love of god don't fill this thread with 20 pages of meaningless bullshit. I will not post information on this mod until it is built, tested and ready to go. I don't want to have a similar thing happen as with the PGMFI RTP board, namely where a good idea has failed to live up to its full promise because it was released too early to too many people with too little testing.

If you have knowledge or experience with using either a logic-triggerable coilpack or a coil-on-plug system suitable for the D, B, or H series motors, please post. You know what I'm up to, and if you really want to help you will keep this thread so real information can be found and I don't have to sift through 10 bazillion posts of gabage. I don't plan on hoarding this information, I just want to make sure it works properly before people go tearing apart distributors and blowing up their cars.

D-tuned

I"ve been running the COP on my daily driver for almost 1 year now. I have a direct fire setup. I'm using 4 01 honda 954 coilsticks, 4 channel AEM C2DI with the AEM EMS. I had allot of misfiring problems. I went with the COP conversion and never had another misfire. So far the only downside to running the coil sticks is that your limited to the type of spark plugs you can use. The honda 954 coil sticks fits perfectly in VTEC heads(you can still use you spark plug cover, and there is not modification to make them fit). On a non-vtec head the coil sticks, stick out alittle bit. He is a picture of the coil sticks on my LS(the one in my sig). I can show you a picture of what the coil sticks look like on a VTEC head. I'm still using the stock dizzy for the trigger.

PrecisionH23a

Thanks again for the info a few weeks ago... I got all my new goodies in. CBR 929rr coils, AEM CDI.... I'll be throwing it on soon

blundar

great info 2000civicsi, thankyou. Anyone have any comments about the limitations of 954RR Coilsticks? F4i? Boost? Gapping? Spark energy? More info on plug limitations?

Do the 929RR coilpacks mentioned require the use of an external driving unit or can they regulate their own charging/dwell and simply respond to a trigger?

D-tuned

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">great info 2000civicsi, thankyou. Anyone have any comments about the limitations of 954RR Coilsticks? F4i? Boost? Gapping? Spark energy? More info on plug limitations?

Do the 929RR coilpacks mentioned require the use of an external driving unit or can they regulate their own charging/dwell and simply respond to a trigger?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know a few supras using the 954 coil sticks putting down over 1000+whp and they dont have any problems. There have been quite a few treads on AEM forum about having to run allot smaller gap when using those coil sticks. I'm running a gap of .023 on my plugs

JDogg

the cbr coils need an external ignitor/cdi, they work fine with an inductive ignitior as well, just make sure you control the dwell if you ahve an inductive ignitor or they will fry themselves.

we have made shittons of power on the cbr coils...

rx7 coils im not sure about... we usually end up having to add a cdi to them or replace them all together on the rx7s making any kind of power.

from the testing i have done, the kseries, dseries and s2000 coils all "seem" to be the same thing... and they all suck

try supra coils, or LS1 coils those have been proven to 1000+ hp

liam821

A few pictures i found...also using the cbr COP. These are from a CBR929.







liam

SEFIxCivic

hey blundar, by self contained dwell, are those coil packs 2 wire or 3 wire? i've run s2000 coil pack before. they were 3 wire i remember.

tgreaves

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liam821 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>

Where do you get that type of wire loom at???

JDogg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SEFIxCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey blundar, by self contained dwell, are those coil packs 2 wire or 3 wire? i've run s2000 coil pack before. they were 3 wire i remember.</TD></TR></TABLE>

generally if a coil has 3 wires then it has the ignitor built in and will control itself, however it is still dependant on the ecu to provide dwell. the ONLY ignitor i know of that calculates dwell on its own is a mkIV supra ignitor, but they need an HKS DLI hooked up to extend the dwell time for high hp apps. if you use a 2 wire coil and a cdi, dwell is unimportant/dosnt matter

troubledsol03

What about the coil packs the DSMers use I believe from a 300m come with the Buscher kit have a few friends running them with good luck

blundar

Keep em coming! Great info guys!

blundar

With COP, I'd worry as much about fitment as anything else. After looking on ebay, it seems LS1 coilpacks still use a spark plug wire. Interesting. Anyone know any more about these?

siblues

iTrader: (1)

Well as far as the 954rr coils they fit good on a b series which is what I am currently working on the only thing that puzzles me is that I cant find the info on what side of the connector is pos or neg ?I didnt mean to jack your thread but I figured that I wouldnt be the only one looking for this info .

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I am kinda interested in the Rx7 coil packs. I have a few of them laying around. And I am setting them up on an Rx7, but not to be used with a distributor, but with the 2nd gen CAS. It can be intergrated into a megasquirt. That is the way I am going to do my ignition on that car. I am not sure of the benefits, but would you have to use just the trailing coils, which fire seperatly, or use the leading coils which are a direct fire setup.

JDogg

if you goto your local honda dealer you can get the ignition sub harness, the black wire on that is the positive.

D-tuned

this is alittle bit off topic. JDOGG what spark ;plugs do you use or recommend when you setup the cop on your customers cars. I know some people use denso's. Is there some cheaper spark plugs you use to iron out the fuel map before you put the denso's in.