warhorse 4.6

Hey guys whats up I was just thinking to my self why don't you guys use Centriugal Blowers? I see a lot of you use turbos on your car can any one tell me why?? I understand that turbos are very efficient and make lot's of power. But for a street driven car wouldn't a Cent- blower do just as well as a Turbo??? I understand that a turbo has a lot of room for growth as long as you build the motor. Any way can some one give me some HP&TQ Numbers for a 8 pound kit on a GSR or any Honda. Are turbos hard to tune and will it cost a lot of money vs a blower Cent or Roots. I had a chance to ride in a Gsr with a jackson racing blower and it was bad ***. Me and my cousin had a chance to race a friend that we have. My cousin has a Gsr with type-R cams and Bolt-ons and he jumped the supers charged of the line two times and held him off till second gear. Any way I would love some info thank you guys

Boostage

Generally turbos work better on high reving hondas. and they been around longer than supercharges. so the majority seems to stick to that. same way v8 guys stick to superchargers. because they have been around longer and as a result make better power. on average Turbo hondas will be much faster than a supercharged one.

warhorse 4.6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Generally turbos work better on high reving hondas. and they been around longer than supercharges. so the majority seems to stick to that. same way v8 guys stick to superchargers. because they have been around longer and as a result make better power. on average Turbo hondas will be much faster than a supercharged one.</TD></TR></TABLE> OK I see what your saying but still centrigaul blower make most of there power up top. Any way are you saying a Turbo Charged GSR will out run a Cent Blown Gsr with the same amount of boost???

Finest

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by warhorse 4.6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> OK I see what your saying but still centrigaul blower make most of there power up top. Any way are you saying a Turbo Charged GSR will out run a Cent Blown Gsr with the same amount of boost???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Centrifugel SC's are essentially a turbo compressor, driven by the crank. As opposed to being driven by the exhaust gas like a turbo.

This brings two problems:

1) Parasitic loss. You need power to spin the centrifugal SC.
2) To match the compressor to the motor, you'll need one that'll be efficient at higher rpms without being inefficent at lower rpms. Most people would rather opt for the previous, aiming for peak HP.

So in essence, you get the parasitic loss of a blower and lag of a large turbo. In the end, HP is pretty much the same, if not less than a properly tuned turbo setup.

93TurboSi

you kinda answered your own question on why people don't use centerfugal SC more for street use. Becaue they make most of there power up top. the truth is a Turbo will reach more boost faster then a centerfugal will and will end up with more peak power. and roots type blowers kinda defeat the purpose of having a high revving little 4 cylinder. a roots would be good if you didn't care about being super faster or making huge power but just wanted some down low grunt so you don't have to down shift as much or rev high to get to the power.

plus a good sized modern turbo setup will spool extremly fast. my sohc greddy will get 5-7 psi if i give it some gas cruising in 5th on the hwy at like 3000-3500 rpms. thats plenty of grunt to make quick hwy pass.

Basically it faster to specialize in 1 section of the power curve and make that are have huge power and then just keep the car in that area then to have meium power through out the rev range. thats why you want to add more top end to a honda and keep rpms high were its at its best. And V8's like the roots type blower because it just amplifys the huge low end torque they have and they keep in that area to be fast.

sure the guy with medium power thoughout might pull for a second if he catches you out of your peaked power band but as soon as you get into it you'll dip out on his *** like hes in reverse.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by warhorse 4.6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> OK I see what your saying but still centrigaul blower make most of there power up top. Any way are you saying a Turbo Charged GSR will out run a Cent Blown Gsr with the same amount of boost???</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes especially if that boost is coming from a 60-1 or greater. but even a drag 3 kit on 10 psi would pull away on a vortech GSR with the same boost. u wont get 10 lbs until about 8k or so with the vortech , but 10 psi is around 4k on a turbo GSR with maybe 20+ more tq throughout the entire power band.

Centri's dont have more top end than its turbo equivalent. your would think that based on v8's see when you run 15 pounds on a S trim on a mustang your making good power. thats a 1000cfm blower. its turbo equivalent is maybe a t66 or so. you dont find too many stangs running soomething like that on the street (or turbos period) and if you do its around 8-11psi (from what i have seen) and keep mind the Supercharged stang ratio is like 30:1 compared to turbo stangs. so really it just seems like centris have lots better performace because.

(a) there are more of them than turbocharged ones
(b) the few turbocharged ones are not running big turbos and or the same amount of boost.

now back to Hondas. the top end of a supercharged B series is paltry compared to the average turbo setup even on less boost.

as far as hondas..

Proper sized Turbo&gt; any supercharger

and I dont think this will ever change.





Modified by Boostage at 1:49 AM 8/24/2004

warhorse 4.6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Generally turbos work better on high reving hondas. and they been around longer than supercharges. so the majority seems to stick to that. same way v8 guys stick to superchargers. because they have been around longer and as a result make better power. on average Turbo hondas will be much faster than a supercharged one.</TD></TR></TABLE> I think it comes down to cost it look like turbo are less then a Centrifugal blower. Both will make a lot of power on A Gsr or any Honda. A Centrifugal has to spool up like a Trubo and is Rpm depened. I would think that it would be great for high reving Hondas because they make a tone of Mid to High end power same as a Trubo of same size. On my stang I make power from 3,000rpm all the way to red line. If my car could rev higher it would still make power . I think the real reason you guys don't use Cent Blower is the $3,700 price tag of a Vortech blower. Any way thank you all for the help

kyosoeg6

iTrader: (7)

i call bullshit on alot of these replys. i have personally seen two vortec supercharged hondas. one 1999 civic si stock motor and one 95gsr stock motor.

the 1999 si had an aftercooler running 10lbs bonestock motor doing 13.9-14.0 all day @4000ft elevation.


the 1995 gsr had no aftercooler just basic vortec running 9lbs and was doing 13.4-13.6 @4000ft

these cars were extremely fast on the street and track. the only reason why the gsr was a bit faster is becasue both centrifugal supercharger kits(ati and vortec) make a bigger blower for the gsr motors. kinda like a 15g and an 18g for comparasion.

i have never seen an ati procharger powered honda but i sure would like to try it. ati has always been a better,more efficient blower than vortec.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kyosoeg6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i call bullshit on alot of these replys. i have personally seen two vortec supercharged hondas. one 1999 civic si stock motor and one 95gsr stock motor.

the 1999 si had an aftercooler running 10lbs bonestock motor doing 13.9-14.0 all day @4000ft elevation.


the 1995 gsr had no aftercooler just basic vortec running 9lbs and was doing 13.4-13.6 @4000ft

these cars were extremely fast on the street and track. the only reason why the gsr was a bit faster is becasue both centrifugal supercharger kits(ati and vortec) make a bigger blower for the gsr motors. kinda like a 15g and an 18g for comparasion.

i have never seen an ati procharger powered honda but i sure would like to try it. ati has always been a better,more efficient blower than vortec. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So what exactly do you call BS on?

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by warhorse 4.6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think it comes down to cost it look like turbo are less then a Centrifugal blower. Both will make a lot of power on A Gsr or any Honda. A Centrifugal has to spool up like a Trubo and is Rpm depened. I would think that it would be great for high reving Hondas because they make a tone of Mid to High end power same as a Trubo of same size. On my stang I make power from 3,000rpm all the way to red line. If my car could rev higher it would still make power . I think the real reason you guys don't use Cent Blower is the $3,700 price tag of a Vortech blower. Any way thank you all for the help</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually you would make more power just switching to a turbo.. you say you make power from 3k to redline.. with the right sized turbo you will make power before 3k and pull hard to redline.

kyosoeg6

iTrader: (7)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So what exactly do you call BS on? </TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry i wasnt clear on my post.

i call bullshit on teh fact that a good honda supercharger set up will fuking rock just as hard as a turbo set up. there is no real race centi chargers yet for hondas but when there is i promise they will take off like the v8 market. u can do 8's and 9's on a turbo, supercharger or nitrous in a v8

warhorse 4.6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

actually you would make more power just switching to a turbo.. you say you make power from 3k to redline.. with the right sized turbo you will make power before 3k and pull hard to redline.</TD></TR></TABLE> Ya your right I could get a smaller Turbo and that will get me more low end boost. But will not make as much power at the top of the rpm band. If I need more low end power then I could get a Twin screw blowe or Roots. I know a small turban will make boost faster but will not make that much top end power.

ILLICON3000

turbos work great....why try something else..it's not like it's even worth the power difference (which probobly would be negative difference cause superchargers suck)

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by warhorse 4.6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Ya your right I could get a smaller Turbo and that will get me more low end boost. But will not make as much power at the top of the rpm band. If I need more low end power then I could get a Twin screw blowe or Roots. I know a small turban will make boost faster but will not make that much top end power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bro, if the turbo is properly sized. you will make more low and and more top end thats not even a question. with the low reving ability of a v8. a t3 housing would best suit you along with a 66mm+ T4 compressor.

warhorse 4.6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ILLICON3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turbos work great....why try something else..it's not like it's even worth the power difference (which probobly would be negative difference cause superchargers suck)</TD></TR></TABLE> Why do you say that do you have one??? It comes down to what your looking for one is not better then the other. Both have there Pro's and Con's I just put the question up to see what you guys would say. Like I said i had a chance to drive a Gsr with a Jackson Racing Blower and it had a lot of low to mid rang power. But up top it was not as strong as the Trubo Gsr Civic that my friend had. Any way thank you for your help this was fun for me