mchuang

A buddy of mine who also happens to tune for turbocharger.com said they told him about a new carbon turbine wheel upgrade which makes turbos spool faster. Anyone know of this. For example.. a 60-1 with a carbon wheel will spool faster than a than a regular 57trim t3/t4 and if the turbo were to go out instead of you gettin metal shavings the carbon would just exit the exhaust.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

you mean ceramic? i have never heard of a carbon exhaust wheel.

Turbowa

I think you may have miss under stood him. Because unless I'm wrong crabon becomes very brital at extrem temps.

mchuang

my bad i mean ceramic

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

problem with ceramic turbines is that they dont like high shaft speeds, overspeed a ceramic wheel and it basically disintegrates

Def

Yep, ceramic turbine wheels and thermoplastic compressor wheels can definitely shatter when run at very high RPMs. Stock Skyline GTS-T turbos have this problem, they basically explode after only a few weeks/months of 10+ psi.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Def &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, ceramic turbine wheels and thermoplastic compressor wheels can definitely shatter when run at very high RPMs. Stock Skyline GTS-T turbos have this problem, they basically explode after only a few weeks/months of 10+ psi.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i heard that it was 15psi. oh well. betteroff sticking with an inconel wheel or the standard fare. if you want quciker spool just go ball bearing. Oh, and if something passes through the turbine housing of any size and hardness, the turbine wheel is gonna **** itself

adseguy

I'm pretty sure the ceramic wheel is good for the anti-lag feature on turbos. Basically you retard the ignition so much that the explosion happens in the manifold or turbo. Providing instant boost at the cost of the turbo hence the ceramic wheel. I know all rally cars have this and you can hear it when they go off boost then back on for a quick second. I didn't know they wern't good for higher shaft speeds though. to learning something new.

Any other advantages/disadvantages

Does the EvoVIII turbo have this? I've "heard things"

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

not that i know of, no. most of the older nissan turbos off of the skylines do, however.

mchuang

I got confirmation that it is a carbon wheel. It is like paper almost but made of carbon. It is not ceramic.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

then i have no clue. never heard of it. have any pics or links to info?

mchuang

Not yet but my buddy said that it is very light. He is gonna get the turbo next week. I will try to get some pics up. As far as I am concerned the carbon should be able to hold the heat since it is used in twin disk clutches.

Turbowa

The heat generated by an clutch is no were near what a turbo is going to put out. If your familuar with Formula 1 racing they use a lot of carbon and carbon fiber. The suspention on all the car is is made of a carbon/carbon fiber mix (more carbon then carbon fiber). And there is constant worry about the exhaust heat coming to close to the suspension parts and melting or damaging one of them. Carbon is very strong, stronger then alot of steels, but when it sees very high heat (1500 degrees F) it tends to become very brital and unstable. I would be very interested in knowing how they got this to work and what it may be coated in.

xci_ed6

carbon/carbon brakes take alot of heat and stress, i see no reason a turbine wheel could not be made.

Sobe_Death

also, the leading edges of the Space Shuttle nose and wings are made out of reinforced carbon/carbon, and are the most re-used thermal insulating material on the exterior of the vehicle.

mchuang

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbowa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The heat generated by an clutch is no were near what a turbo is going to put out. If your familuar with Formula 1 racing they use a lot of carbon and carbon fiber. The suspention on all the car is is made of a carbon/carbon fiber mix (more carbon then carbon fiber). And there is constant worry about the exhaust heat coming to close to the suspension parts and melting or damaging one of them. Carbon is very strong, stronger then alot of steels, but when it sees very high heat (1500 degrees F) it tends to become very brital and unstable. I would be very interested in knowing how they got this to work and what it may be coated in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As a matter of fact they took the idea from formula 1 race cars which was what I was told. As soon as I get my hands on 1 I will post pics

ShaunRR

I was wondering when this was going to be possible.

Def

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wantboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i heard that it was 15psi. oh well. betteroff sticking with an inconel wheel or the standard fare. if you want quciker spool just go ball bearing. Oh, and if something passes through the turbine housing of any size and hardness, the turbine wheel is gonna **** itself</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe it is 15 psi, but I seem to recall my buddy with an RB20 always talking about 10 psi or more being "death" to his turbo due to this. Maybe he was being too conservative.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

have you ever seen that rb20 powered 240 that srolls around atlanta? some girl drives it. she said after 15psi, you really need to swap turbos, because the stock ones tend to grenade after that. i mean, you could run it over 15psi. but it wouldnt last long

crx12

Most carbon fiber components won't withstand 400F much less 1500 deg, I don't know where that number came from? The stiffness falls off as heat goes up as well. The problem is not the fiber but the resin in the laminate. The fibers can take over 2000 deg F but resin just burns up. Yes you can get resin systems that go higher for about 10x the money but I doubt that is what this turbine wheel is made from. If I had to guess this is a fiber reinforced ceramic product using a carbon fiber matrix and a ceramic base. I know in brake disks made from this material have been tested to 1400 D Celsius not F. Wow! Yes this could save a bunch of weight. When carbon brakes or clutches are made the are first molded using a regular resin and the the part is coated with silicon and super heated to 2-3K degrees and the silicon displaces the burned off resin. I expect this option on a turbine wheel would be expensive. The best thing of all is the CTE in carbon is much lower than most metals so you get little expansion under heat. You shoul be able to get much better tolerances. Lets see pics and prices.

Here's a website I found that explains how this is used in some brake disks:

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/....html

Def

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wantboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you ever seen that rb20 powered 240 that srolls around atlanta? some girl drives it. she said after 15psi, you really need to swap turbos, because the stock ones tend to grenade after that. i mean, you could run it over 15psi. but it wouldnt last long</TD></TR></TABLE>

Never seen the girl, but I know a guy with a white S13 coupe and an RB20.

Is the girl hot?


As for carbon fiber not being up for this - it can be, there are lots of different ways to make carbon structures(i.e. carbon brake rotors are different than your cheap CF hood).

superstud

bump - any updates on this wheel yet?

Turbowa

I want to keep this up to date as I'm interested on what this is really made of. If it is really made of solly carbon that would be awsom but the prise would have to be expensive as hell. those breaks that your talking about are like $10,000 each.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Def &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Never seen the girl, but I know a guy with a white S13 coupe and an RB20.

Is the girl hot?


As for carbon fiber not being up for this - it can be, there are lots of different ways to make carbon structures(i.e. carbon brake rotors are different than your cheap CF hood).</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, let me put it this way. the first time i saw her at nopi i almost asked her if i could take her somewhere more "private"

yea, the carbon rotors are made from a special material with special resins. they arent cheap but they work

ShaunRR

So what company are these supposed to be coming from?