Too_Smooth

As the title states the car just doesn't have any power. I had the valve stem seals changed two months ago maybe...could have been longer. Let me clear up what I call no power also. Before the seals were changed the car would spin the wheels like any other FI Honda. Now it doesn't turn the wheels over at all...not even in first.

Here's some background on the setup.

84mm GSR block with LS internals
B16 head with a little work and oversize valves
Compression is 8.5:1...somewhere in that area (Compression
tested at 180-170-170-170)
SC61 (S cover, .63A/R)
Full 3in exhaust
GSR cams
Hondata
1000cc injectors
Walbro fuel pump
One Fab top mount

Ok, so that should be enough background. Here's what I've done so far.

Changed the distributor
Disconnected 6al
Changed coils
Checked the timing belt several times
Measured cam lobes
Made sure vtec engaged
Played with cam gears
Checked for boost leaks...12 psi solid.
Yes, valves are adjusted
NGK plugs (7 heat range) gapped at 27
Turbo looks fine and the shaft turns freely.

I haven't done a leak down test because the car doesn't smoke, the oil isn't getting contaminated from combustion by-products (getting black quick), and I don't have a leak down tester. It's not using any oil either.

I have been at this for months and I'm really about to give up and just pass this project on to someone else. I've been thru a lot with this car. Every time I correct one problem another one surfaces. I'm totally beat, stumped...you name it I'm it!

Oh and the car drives fine....just no power. Almost seems like the air is blowing right thru the cylinders.

I'm attaching a datalog. Car is a little lean once vtec engages, but I corrected that. I didn't rev it out either....car is on it's face. Any other info I can provide please ask.

This is my last resort, so HT what can any of you guys come up with? Thanks for any ideas!!!!!!!!

non-VTEC

do the RPM's climb up fast and the car doesn't move? could it possibly be clutch slipping?

and it looks like your running much leaner from 6.5krpm compared to whats going on between 5-6.5k

is your hondata tuned?

Too_Smooth

Nah, it's not a slipping clutch...wish it was.

I corrected the a/f reading. It was street tuned, but I have been fooling around with the car so much stuff got changed up some. If the problem can be resolved I'll retune it.

Anymore ideas?

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Too_Smooth &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 84mm GSR block with LS internals </TD></TR></TABLE>

LS internals? You mean LS dimensions, or actually LS internals? I really hope you meant deminsions.

Too_Smooth

Yes, LS internals......crank and rods.

Anyway, bump for morning folks.

Dunc

So what you're saying is that you have basically a completely built motor correct (see as it's an 84mm)? Nice injectors, EMS, nice turbo, nice everything basically agreed? I'm curious as to why you still have stock rods....that just seems really dangerous. The crank is cool, but the rods are just plain scary. What's the reasoning behind it a.k.a method to your madness haha?

raene

I think he's saying he's using LS rods, as in rods for an LS application, not stock rods. You wouldn't use GSR rods with an LS crank, you need LS-length rods.

What gear was that datalog in?

It only takes 1 second to get from 5k to 8k!

Too_Smooth

It's a built motor.

That datalog was in 2nd gear. Since the car doesn't spin I figured I would just use it.

raene

Try a run without the filter and try a run unbolting the exhaust at the cat. To me, it sounds like a major blockage in the intake or exhaust since af is OK... something that's happened over time. No EGT gauge?

Too_Smooth

I have ran without the filter a couple of times and there was no change in respond.

I haven't tried unbolting the exhaust though....Will give that a shot. Oh and there isn't a cat in place. EGT's seem to be where they were at before I had the valve stem seals changed.

I was also thinking should I remove the intake manifold and check it out?

seen4ever

have you checked all the connections on your pipe? as that datalog isn't showing any boost. with hondalogger, 0-1bar is just vacuum, past that you are in boost. So.... you weren't making any boost there. assuming the turbo is still ok, then i would think you have a coupling dead somewhere, which also explains why the car is slow, as no boost would make the car pretty damn slow.

hopefully you haven't overspun the turbo

Too_Smooth

I'll go and check the coupling again. Strange thing is that I see boost on the boost gauge and AVCR. The gauge and AVCR are getting there reading from a vacuum block that gets its reading from the intake manifold. Oh and the wastegate opens.

raene

The datalogs show almost a bar of boost, I don't think it's that!

seen4ever

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The datalogs show almost a bar of boost, I don't think it's that!</TD></TR></TABLE>

NO, the datalog shows 1 bar of vacuum.

see example below of a stock b16 running stock map sensor running 9.5psi:

D@nnY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LS internals? You mean LS dimensions, or actually LS internals? I really hope you meant deminsions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what the hell are you talking about?? lol

Check your cam timing check the wheels on the turbo

b18BoostedDC2

i had the same problem until today. took my tuner the whole day to figure out that it was my timming belt skip 2 teeth on the intake and skiped one on the exhaust. my situation is exactly like yours. shows there is boost present but dont feel the throw back. i guarantee you its you cam timing.

Too_Smooth

Wheels on the turbo are fine.

I have taken the timing belt off almost 20 times now. I'm was thinking about intentionally timing it wrong. All of my marks are dead on....crank lines up with oil pump mark and cam line up. I even put a pin in the cams to lock them in place.

Anyone think it's possible the timing belt stretched or something to that nature?

raene

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by seen4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
NO, the datalog shows 1 bar of vacuum.

see example below of a stock b16 running stock map sensor running 9.5psi</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, I didn't know Hondata measured it like that Looks like no boost then...

Question though, why is it showing vacuum being drawn even though the throttle is wide open?

Too_Smooth

*Here's an update*

I unbolted the exhaust yesterday. There's no difference there.

Now, onto why Hondalogger isn't seeing boost. I'm stumped there because if I'm using Romeditor I see numbers populating the boost colums.

mike1114

iTrader: (1)

maybe you need a severe valve adjustment?

SuperTeg95

Did you say what map sensor you were running? Check the MAP's vac source and wiring.

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what the hell are you talking about?? lol

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I meant like an LS rod length (thats the "LS dimensions" part), or if he was using stock LS rods (thats the "actual LS internals" part). Sorry if it didn't make sense haha. Since they're not stock, which rods did you use for your setup by the way?

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe you need a severe valve adjustment?</TD></TR></TABLE>



&lt;Edit&gt;
And yes I see you said it in your original post now. When was this checked?
&lt;/Edit&gt;


Modified by 0x64 at 12:28 PM 10/28/2005

raene

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperTeg95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you say what map sensor you were running? Check the MAP's vac source and wiring.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dunno if that makes sense either... 'cause he's seeing 12.5:1 a/f under boost and he says it's hitting 12 lbs! Seems more like a logging problem.

That's a damn confusing problem, I wish I could get my hands on the car to look at it in person. As stated above many times, valve adjustment?

seen4ever

just thought of this, on hondalogger, if you have the wrong map sensor checked, it will read wrong. AKA have stock checked when you have a 3-bar running. that could easily explain it.

as far as reading boost but not going, this is still a very strange thing. there is the possibility of valves being extremely out of it, but it should still get up and go. How do the plugs look?