Chris F

Hey FI guys,

My boosted ITR has been making some interesting sounds. I don't know what the deal is. Some of it (piston slap?) started after an HPDE last weekend and a switch to synthetic oil after break-in. This is my first built motor, so bear with me, I could be smoking crack.

I was running dino 10w40 for a break-in of about 1000+ miles, including an HPDE at Road America last weekend.

During the HPDE I was catching a lot of oil and overfilled my catch can every session. It even happened at low boost. My crankcase ventilation is just the valve cover breather and PCV (hollowed, no valve) going to a vented Moroso can. Kinda strange, I'll have to figure out how to deal with that before my next HPDE, either a drainback or a overflow bottle

My water temp (OEM gauge) looked normal, but my oil temps were higher than before the motor was built. 280+F. My EGT's were also higher, 1800+ instead of 1600+. I decided to wrap the downpipe by the oil pan to see if that helps.

After the HPDE I switched oil to 15w50 Mobil1 in anticipation of another HPDE coming up. The 15w50 seems to hold up the best for high temperatures. I think my piston slap got louder after that oil change or the HPDE. It's pretty obnoxious when its cold.

Also, after it's warmed up and idling, there's a faint sound, like someone doing a drum solo, or a bad bearing about to crap out, coming from my timing belt cover area. I thought maybe it was a shredding timing belt so I took a peek under the cover while it was running, and the sound didn't get much louder, although when I stuck my ear right by it, it's pretty loud. I don't hear that same sound on the other side of my motor. It's not very noticable with the hood down but I can hear it from the driver's seat.

Timing belt (OEM), oil pump and water pump have ~1000 miles, replaced with the rebuild.

Am I just paranoid about that sound when it's warmed up? Should I be worried, or wait for it to get louder? I hadn't noticed it until today, when I was playing around with my new TurboXS dual stage MBC.

-Chris

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

is it tuned ? could be you leaned it out and expanxed the piston then it contracted.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it tuned ? could be you leaned it out and expanxed the piston then it contracted. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It it totally tuned. Hondata, dyno and street tuned on 93 octane, was running 98 octane at the track.

On the other hand, it's not impossible that the pistons expanded. It was an HPDE, after all, 30 to 35 minute sessions.

-Chris

Harassing Herbs

built motors are noisey.

when u start the motor is tends to make some noise until the pistons heat up.
do you have bigger cams or head work? you may be hearing your lifters/valves.

i never liked syn oil, it tends to break down/evaporate when in a high temp motor.

10-40 is kinda thick so u have to wait for your oil to heat up so it can start flowing, and if you were runinning rich the fuel will bring your oil rating up to 10-50.

hope its not a bearing.

nikolai.

I cant comment directly on an FI built ITR motor, but I know H22's easily see 280+ degree oil temps at an HPDE.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cant comment directly on an FI built ITR motor, but I know H22's easily see 280+ degree oil temps at an HPDE.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds reasonable. Well, we'll see how this one holds up.

Here's a quick vid of the piston slap sound.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D


Modified by Chris F at 10:43 AM 5/9/2005

BoostR41

Chris my motor slaps too and I get paranoid as well. from what I have heard it is normal for forged pistons to slap till it is full warm.

also don't blinks can was also overflowing last year on hard runs at the drag strip. he found out all the oil on the launch was goin up the lines and overflowing the can. I think he just rerouted the lines and it is fine now. talk to him about it I am sure he would help you out.

nonvtecD

Well I don't know about the blow-by but my built motor slaps just as loud.

White_EK49

that happened to me before. all 4 intake relief valve on the piston cracked. My car was also tuned. However I got a bad batch of gas and the pistons took the abuse. I was tuned on c16 and imo it was like 112 or so. The motor had the same noise you did. I would do a leak down test....

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slow29 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would do a leak down test.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, my compression is perfect and it still runs well. We'll see if it gets louder or quieter.

Black R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sounds reasonable. Well, we'll see how this one holds up.

Here's a quick vid of the piston slap sound.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D</TD></TR></TABLE>


vid no worky for me.....

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">vid no worky for me..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

whoops...

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D

You can hear the tapping/slapping.

earl

I don't understand why people think this noise is normal. What is your piston to wall clearance and what kind of pistons are you using? Noise is not good. It is pounding 2 pieces of metal together. Eventually it will fail.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand why people think this noise is normal. What is your piston to wall clearance and what kind of pistons are you using? Noise is not good. It is pounding 2 pieces of metal together. Eventually it will fail.</TD></TR></TABLE>

JE 9:1 Pistons in stock sleeves. It quiets down when it warms up.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand why people think this noise is normal. What is your piston to wall clearance and what kind of pistons are you using? Noise is not good. It is pounding 2 pieces of metal together. Eventually it will fail.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The piston to wall clearance should be .0045. (JE 9:1). I think the spec is .0030-.0036, it's over the spec to survive extra heat/expansion during HPDE's (half-hour of WOT at a time, **** gets hot). So yeah, it knocks when cold, most of the time. Sometimes not so much. (?). It goes away during the minute or two it takes to get to the exit of my subdivision. Maybe it wouldn't with a tighter piston to wall clearance.

Anyhow, I took it over to Suprdave to look at the odd tapping noise coming from the timing belt cover area. Turns out a cam bolt had backed out. Anyhow, that's fixed (hooray!) and the car feels a bit better now.

I'll deal with the blowby somehow, probably with something that looks like the Endyn kit setup.

-Chris

_entropy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Harassing Herbs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">built motors are noisey.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They don't have to be. With 8.8:1 Wiseco's here my motor doesn't knock, slap, or make any kind of abnormal noise in general on start up. I think your wide PV clearances have something to do with it. I had my Wiseco's were installed on the large end of Wiseco's tolerances, and I am going to do a lot of HPDE's with my car. I did one with the old set of pistons (flat top 10:1's) and they didn't knock, slap, or anything else.