graphic

i got my car tuned a couple of weeks ago and i have a re-tune coming up but i just wanted some input on my situation..

engine is a built bottom end/ stock head h22 w/ 9:1 compression
running 750 cc injectors walboro 255lph pump
neptune for EMS
turbo t3/to4e 60 trim .63ar hot side t31 turbine wheel
stock cams and stock cam gears
2.5in DP, 3in exhaust
high flow cat
and closed loop wastegate
ignition is stock and new plugs were gapped at .18


the most the car put down was 275 whp at around 16psi
when boost was increased to 18-19psi car lost 20-30whp

we tried to trouble shoot
we speculated it was the short dump from the wastegate(1inch or so)
so we unbolted it and dumped into the atmosphere and only gained around 25whp bringing us to 275whp we dropped the cat and only gained around 10 whp

timing and a/f was correct i think a/f was 11.8-12.1 straight through.

so then we unbolted cahrge pipe and did a n/a run and only made 100whp and 95 tq

any ideas?

only thing left is cam timing,
so i got adjustable cam gears in and have a re-tune scheduled

we think it might be cam timing because uping the boost causes the car to loose power and at 12 psi on a cooled down engine produced same power as engine after 4 runs on 16psi

so maybe exhaust gas isn't getting out fast enough and is backing up in engine and heating things up??

any opinions??

dustin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by graphic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so then we unbolted cahrge pipe and did a n/a run and only made 100whp and 95 tq
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eh, that's not a particularly good idea. You were still spinning the turbine/compressor wheels... hehe. Overspinning the turbo is a no-no.

What does your timing map look like?

For that much boost on a h22 I think I'd run a larger turbo. But it should still make more power than that.

it'd help if you could post the graphs

CiViC SiR

check your engine compression first.
i had same problem in my friends lude with almost the same setup, we found that the injectors wire were not in sequence we fixed it and the car was totally diffrent. even thought the a/f ratio was showing us 12.0 ~ 12.4

graphic

compression is 190-187psi across the board...

""we found that the injectors wire were not in sequence we fixed it and the car was totally diffrent""

when i installed the 750cc i went one at a time with the stock harnesses, so how am i supposed to check if they are not in sequence???

thanks for the input though

CiViC SiR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by graphic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when i installed the 750cc i went one at a time with the stock harnesses, so how am i supposed to check if they are not in sequence???</TD></TR></TABLE>
They are color coded
Cyl#1 Brown, Cyl#2 Red, Cyl#3 Blue, Cyl#4 Yellow

graphic

don't know how its possible, but i'll check later on...

Pikachu

100whp and 95 tq? Something definately wrong there. Check plugs, wires, dizzy.

booja

wow.... sounded like my car.

i made 285 or something at like 17psi

i thought something was wrong with mine too... still dont know y it only made that much

i had a t3 60-1... im thinking it was my turbo it was smoking when we were tuning and like 1 month later the turbo went bye bye completely

that was me though. i hope you figure out whats wrong id like to know also

graphic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CiViC SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
They are color coded
Cyl#1 Brown, Cyl#2 Red, Cyl#3 Blue, Cyl#4 Yellow</TD></TR></TABLE>

checked today, and they are in that order..

blown_LS

Check your compression if you havent done it yet. Because that 100whp all motor is just not right.

twkdCD595

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blown_LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check your compression if you havent done it yet. Because that 100whp all motor is just not right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by graphic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">compression is 190-187psi across the board...</TD></TR></TABLE>

graphic:
How much timing do you have in the motor? is vtec working for sure?

turboEGhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by graphic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so then we unbolted cahrge pipe and did a n/a run and only made 100whp and 95 tq</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you being serious? You actually ran the car for a full pass with the charge pipe just disconnected and the turbo just spinning? If you didn't destroy your turbo on that pass take it off the car and check for shaft play ASAP.

Check your plug gap. Should be more like .028", not .018", do that ASAP.

And I don't know why anyone is making a big **** fit over 100 WHP naturally aspirated, do you know how big of a restriction the turbine housing and wheel pose to the motor? A pretty big one. That paired with the rediculously close gapped and cold plugs and probably no timing = dick for power.

twkdCD595

oh wow, I missed that... a .018 gap is pretty damn tight! I agree with the above, try .028 or so.

Quaalude

Double check your engine/cam timing to make sure the timing marks all line up. Make sure the ignition timing between the standalone and engine are in sync. With pretty much the same setup (i.e. Fmax kit, built bottom end, and same turbo) at 20 psi, I made 385 whp on a conservative tune. This is with Wiseco pistons, which are rated at 8.5-8.2:1 compression. The only other difference would be I have a Portflow head with Ferrea valvetrain, running 720cc/min at the time, and MSD 6A with Blaster 2 coil. Also, I made 271 whp at 9 psi with said turbo and stock bottom end so something is differently up.

Don't be worried too much about the spark plug gap because I run mine at 0.022" (20+ psi) even with the MSD.

TurboLude97

with pretty much the same setup

built bottem, stock head, but open loop and .28 sp gap i was making 255 @ 8 psi... number are low. check the plugs

graphic

problem is at .25 gap i was having misfire/spark issues.. between 12-16psi
so we lowered the gap to .18

when i bought the car before anything was done to it i noticed that the coil housing was cracked so i replaced it..

maybe something is worng w/ the stock ignitor??

becuase before my engine build i also had major power issues w/ really wavey dyno graphs...on 5.5 psi boost i made 180whp/160wtrq

so something was not right prior to the build and all..

car was salvaged..
only engine damage was broken radiator...but maybe dizzy got F'ed up a little from impact..


twkdCD595...i am going to try to get a hold of my timing..

Quaalude...ignition timing was matched to neptune before tune..
cam timing was not touched because lack of adjustable cam gears...but now i have them on the car for the next tune..

until then any other suggestions??

NRN GT4

look at the cams make sure nothing is scored up

graphic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NRN GT4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">look at the cams make sure nothing is scored up </TD></TR></TABLE>

you mean like damaged? cut? camlobes right?

NRN GT4

yeah if the cams are scored anywere on the lobes then the car wont make upper power but the compression will look good. Check the cams and c if there are any marks that look that they would effect the engine opening and closing of the valves which would drop the power quick especially in the upper RPM

graphic

190 - 187 psi compression across the board was taken in nov 2004 when the built engine had only 700 miles on it..

i took it again today..
engine has approx 4000 miles on it..

i also did another compression test today..
numbers are

cyl1 193
cyl2 193
cyl3 190
cyl4 182


so i still think the cylinders are good

graphic

bump!!

NRN GT4

how did the cams look&gt;?

graphic

did not check yet..
i am going to pull the valve cover and check the valve clearences and also do a leak down test..

i will check the cam lobes then..

PrecisionH23a

Dustin is right... that's a pretty small turbo for such a large displacement engine.

Either way, you should be well into the 300's at this boost pressure. Set your valve-lash on the loose side of the suggested clearances. When you are checking valve lash, set the engine at TDC and verify through the cam plates that the holes in the camshaft align with the holes on the cam plates... if not you may need to advance/retard your cams.

H series ignitions are a tad weaker than B series, but it should not be giving out this early. Replace your cap and rotor button... I would also throw on some NGK blue plug wires on accompanied by a new set of ngk 3330's. Usually if an ignitor is going bad, you may sometimes experience a hesistation/stutter throughout your engines rpm's. I know it sounds rediculous... but it almost seems that you arent engaging in vtec. Pull your vtec selenoid and make sure the screen isn't clogged up.

Post your hi-cam timing map when you get a chance.

graphic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dustin is right... that's a pretty small turbo for such a large displacement engine.

Either way, you should be well into the 300's at this boost pressure. Set your valve-lash on the loose side of the suggested clearances. When you are checking valve lash, set the engine at TDC and verify through the cam plates that the holes in the camshaft align with the holes on the cam plates... if not you may need to advance/retard your cams.

H series ignitions are a tad weaker than B series, but it should not be giving out this early. Replace your cap and rotor button... I would also throw on some NGK blue plug wires on accompanied by a new set of ngk 3330's. Usually if an ignitor is going bad, you may sometimes experience a hesistation/stutter throughout your engines rpm's. I know it sounds rediculous... but it almost seems that you arent engaging in vtec. Pull your vtec selenoid and make sure the screen isn't clogged up.

Post your hi-cam timing map when you get a chance.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I will check cam plate hole and camshaft holes..

as far as the ignitor goes...if it was bad would i get a CEL?
also car pulls pretty hard until i hit vtec then it feels a little hesitant, even though the engine will continue to pull till redline..

if vtec wasn't working i would of throw a cel.

because i through a CEL a couple of months prior to the tune.
turns out that the engine builder supposedly installed a h23 head gasket instead of an h22 and it blocked off oil flow to the head..

so he ran a "ls/vtec" style oil line from the bottom of the block to the side of the head...