RACEPAK

hey guys, i need some advice,
so here is the deal,
its a friends car, i'v built the engine and i'm the one tuning it.

setup is:
Toluene mix with 98ron ratio is 30% Toluene.
precision 5858bb
d16z6 with vitaras
stock head, y8 manifold
ebay cast manifold
3" exhaust
tuned with crome
timing is dead on

i'v tuned the car today on a mustang dyno, the car was semi street tuned and made 180 whp @ 13 PSI on the first pull,
we ended up with only 280 whp and 32kgm (or 231foot pound) @22 psi
timing wont add power significantly. no knock at all,
raising up the boost to 24-25psi only raised the hp about 5whp

any ideas? i'm lost lol.

not enough cam? the cast manifold :S ?

thanks

shawty22

How does it feel on the street? Are the settings on the dyno correct? It's seems about to be 200whp lower than it should be. Haha

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

stock length rods? if so the 7.xx:1 compression ratio definitely isn't doing you any favors

the turbo manifold is not an issue

also check distributor timing and mechanical timing, if either are off it could be part of, if not all of the problem

RACEPAK

yup, it is 200 lower than what it need to be

it feels good on the street, spinning 3rd and $hit,

distributor timing and mechanical timing is ok (i checked it after the dyno)
dont know about cam timing, since it has astock cam and a stock cam gear.


thanks

KevinEF7

Stock cam is definitely killing you at that point

Is there a cat? Disconnect before it and try a pull

KevinEF7

And stock head and vitaras in the block is FAR from "built"

RACEPAK

its a bugdet build and makes more power then stock, so yeah its built,

Schister66

Low comp and stock head are killing the power. You can shove more air into the engine, but if it can't move it through efficiently, it will build boost (resistance) but won't create much additional power.

What is the static compression ratio?

ls joker

is your intercooler effecient enough. mite be blowing in hot air. and you have a exhaust restriction, on top of the head not being able to flow enough.

exact thing happened to me at the beginning of last year. from 16psi to 19psi, i gained 1whp.
then i swapped out the fmic, then the cams and that was the difference.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

either your intercooler was tiny or you had some piece of **** eBay/china intercooler

most of your problems are related to vitaras on stock rods... compression ratio is way too low... just going up to 9:1 you'd see almost 30hp more without doing anything.

b20ricepower

Its not the vitaras or the stock cam. You should still see more power with that setup. Was the engine machined at all? I would check cam timing and do a leak down test to make sure everything is holding compression. Then again it could also be high iats as well. Theres a lot of troubleshooting for you to do. Just gotta take it one step at a time.

RACEPAK

hey guys,
i dont know the static cr,
its a chinese tube and fin cooler iats are ok, we had 13c on the dyno and 25c on the road, (it was night)
iv sent the dude to do a leakdown test and a boost leak test,
if everythng comes up ok.
my next step is to check the mechenichal timine, walls in the cast manifold, and finally if everything turns out ok , buying a cam and degreeing the engine,

blackeg

I agree it's not the cam or stock length rods. My vitara motor was over 200whp on 10 psi. It was taking and loving timing more than I thought due to the really low comp.

Is the wastegate dumptube anywhere near the turbo inlet? Do u have a flex section in the exhaust and is it crushed or collapsed on the inside u can't see it externally

RACEPAK

the dump tube is ok, it exhausts under the car,
i will check the flex pipe today,
i also remembered that i saw about 2 layers of chicken wire as a filter on the turbo, :S

91integraLSVTEC

check for vtec engagement. also check for boost leaks. pump air through the turbo around 5 psi and you should find a leak. theres a write up on how to do it, google it. my setup made 388whp stock head and ebay cast mani. i was having problems similar to yours. my issue was tiny boost leaks coming from the vaccum lines and mechanical timing.

skateboard_ej8

iTrader: (4)

Based off the specs of the turbo set up you have listed in the op, i believe your car should be putting down way more power than mine, especially at 22psi.

Sounds like a boost leak to me or excessive blow-by.

This is stock bore right? What do you have the ring gap set at?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I've seen Greddy kits make more power than this on stock d series motors...

siregcivic

should have made alot more then that... i street tuned a stock sohc vtec with arp headstuds on 10psi on a ebay kit and it made 263whp 212tq on 10psi, even the guy who ran the dyno when we put it on to see what it made was really suprised ... was tested on a dyno jet...

i street tune another sohc vtec vitara setup on 18psi 2nd gear it just shreds the tires ...

what is your total timing at 22psi in boost? if you want to upload the map i can look at it and help you..

the first time i tuned one of those vitara piston sohc a few years ago i was being overly safe on the timing being we were street tuning it on 22psi it wouldnt break traction in 2nd or 3rd.. finally i started adding timing it got faster and started spinning the tires in 3rd gear, but i took it slow and check the plugs after every pull..

i ended up running 14 degrees of timing at 22psi with a t3 t4 .57

blackeg

just for *****, did you try running a different fuel? try going to a different dyno just for baseline pulls to compare?

RACEPAK

i will do so after all the mechanical checks.

the car pulls hard on the road and is spinning 3rd.

timing is around 13deg at this boost (it should be more with the toulene) but we didnt had any significant power changes when we advanced the timing even by 4 degrees.

Tony the Tiger

Spinning the tires just means there is a torque spike, and rarely has anything to do with good overall power up top.

If you can spin mid way after the first rush of torque, then you got HP.

RACEPAK

yup, but were using it as a general ref

ok some resaults
did a leakage test and 3 intake valves are leaking,

i also did a compression test and its 130 150 130 130...
fun times

DDTECH

Timing?

AFR?

boost? 13 degrees @ 22 psi seems a tad low to me. Mustang dynos do read low, I've had my far share of experience with them, we're talking probably a 30-40whp difference on some of the ones I've done vs a Dynojet.

Whats the spark plugs looks like?

stock cam definitely hurting.

RACEPAK

13deg is really low considering the toluene, but adding even 5-8 degrees didnt help alot, maybe a 10hp gain,

but i'v found the main problem,

i will know tomorrow if its bent valves or just too tight clearance,

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

fix the valve problem first (should just be a matter of redoing valve lash) then re-dyno the car, make no other changes, not even the tune


then report back


as far as the conpression test, that looks normal for a stock length rod vitara setup, ideally though you want no more then a 10% difference in numbers cylinder to cylinder

was this done on a hot motor with the throttle wide open and injectors uplugged? add some oil to each cylinder and see how much the readings jump

I highly doubt you've bent multiple valves... not with a stock cam and those pistons. it would require that mechanical timing is off or the piston hit the valves (unlikely)

if they were all bent the car would run like crap, it has to be valvelash