foca

HAS ANYONE BROKEN A STOCK HONDA ROD ON A BOOSTED MOTOR? how and what kinda rod?

ANYONE BENT ONE?

just trying to get som edown-n-dirty numbers. I think there is a lot of hoopla surrounding the mystery of what these rods can handle. much like the crank hearsay that estimated 300hp max. we now know this number ios more like 800hp.

Seams to me like these rods could handle some power. I would GUESS on the order of ~400hp at ~7500rpm. I'm basing that on the fact that i've heard NA people run them up to 300hp at 10k rpm before they broke at the rod bolt.

any experiences out there?

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

broken rods have a lot to do with what bolts you use as well. I have never seen one other than the ones where people just torque down rod bolts and they came off. I have seen some pics of crowers that broke right in half of the middle of the rod but I can't recall what had happened.

quicksilver1689

tensile loads are usually what rapes rods

k24em2

you'll probably break the stock rod bolt before you break the rod

tricura

seen gsr's bend at around 20+ psi, still have some layin around.

steven_highet

Like quicksilver1689 said tensile stress is what will destroy a rod which is related to RPM's. Its the strecthing effect of the rod and piston coming to a stop an TDC. A rod can take alot of compressive force on it as this is basically puching it togther. i would think a hod rod could take 400hp also depending on the rod to stroke ratio. Im sure that it would help out the motor been able to hold together easier.
anyone else got any thing on it?

HiProfile

If you look at the computer stress models of rods, its right at the top of the exhaust stroke where the rod stretches the most, pinching the bearings, and biting the crank. Spins the bearings, heats up like crazy, then seizes and snaps the end. I have 2 d16's from cheap cars that did that exact thing.

The thing is most problems come from accidents, like bad gas, freak gas shortage, detonation, etc. There are more than a handful of 400+ whp stock GSR blocks, and its the pistons that break first.

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by foca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HAS ANYONE BROKEN A STOCK HONDA ROD ON A BOOSTED MOTOR? how and what kinda rod?

ANYONE BENT ONE?

just trying to get som edown-n-dirty numbers. I think there is a lot of hoopla surrounding the mystery of what these rods can handle. much like the crank hearsay that estimated 300hp max. we now know this number ios more like 800hp.

Seams to me like these rods could handle some power. I would GUESS on the order of ~400hp at ~7500rpm. I'm basing that on the fact that i've heard NA people run them up to 300hp at 10k rpm before they broke at the rod bolt.

any experiences out there?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the crank thing has been known for about 10 years now... but yeah, i would say 380 on stock rods and race gas and not raping the ish out of them, i know there are guys who push it further than that, but i wouldnt.

foca

agreed, rev's are the killer. and the weak point is indeed the rod bolt area. on that note...

of course it is possible to upgrade the rod bolts. this may be a good question for the ARP tech guys, but is the failure actually the bolt or the rod cap or a weak point on the casting where it thins out? obviously a tough question, but has anyone seen the rod bolt intact when the rod has yielded?

a little background on what I am considering. have a stock B16B. gonna use a 1.8 crank for the daily drivability. keep the P72 rods. get some forged pistons at about 10:1 ratio. the goal is to get down a little over 300hp to the wheels before detonation.

any thoughts?

steven_highet

What are you trying to prove?
Most people would think you are crazy for going all the way in there and not buying a set of Eagle rods for it. Cause if those rods or rod bolts give way bye bye engine.

But it is something I would like to see. Cause the pistons are the weakest point on a honda bottom end would be nice to see what would be next inline to break if you upgraded the pistons only. I say do it if you have the wallet to fix it later. 300hp aint inything special people are making 300 on stock pistons and rods all day long. try and push the limit a little bit more maybe around 400hp.

gunslinger

injector was 80% plugged on that cyl went really lean then boom
im currently on stock everything on a gsr making 465whp

foca

you are probably right about the pistons being good on stock config.

BUT, i still need pistons, cause the CTR ones i have are a no-go. so if I'm gonna spend the $150, why not go a little more and gain some margin on the only part that i really have a chance of breaking. you detonate on those cast pistons and bye bye. the forged is good insurance. besides, I will probably set up some alcohol injection for an extra ~40 ponies just to give me somewhere to go from here, for when i get ansie.

All I am trying to do is not throw a bunch of parts that aren't needed at a motor. if the rods are good to 400+hp, why would i switch them? i am going to detonate way before that. if the crank is good to 700hp, why would i upgrade? It's common sense to me.

taggart_lumpy

isnt there a most hp on stock bottom end thread somewhere with a variety of motors

but thats most likely 1 time things

philafelman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven_highet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But it is something I would like to see. Cause the pistons are the weakest point on a honda bottom end would be nice to see what would be next inline to break if you upgraded the pistons only. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i did this the first time around (wiseco pistons on stock rods/arp bolts) on my all motor setup and it lasted about 1k miles before the rod bearings went....also the wrist pin clearance in the piston got really tight and it was very hard to wiggle the piston by hand....had to have them re-honed. i ended up going with eagle rods and calico coated bearings after that....in addition to my new crank.

Runnerdown

I know some road race guys that have broken stock ls rods (stock bolts too) but they are 6k-9k all day. broke at the bottom where the oil hole is.

Jared

bent some h22 rods at around 350-400whp

dustin528

we did in our civic in ESPN's Pipes... THis was a stock jdm b18c. Go to the bottom of the page...

http://uglycarracing.com/pipescivic4.aspx

It was pretty funny... the big end still spun freely on the crank! haha

foca

dustin528,

got HP numbers on this car before the blowout? thanks

agrn93ls

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by quicksilver1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tensile loads are usually what rapes rods</TD></TR></TABLE>



RPM's or detonation seems to be the big killer not HP

quicksilver1689

yeah detonation really starts to pound rods, bearings see it too

DaveF

we broke a pauter rod this past year, and in 05 we bent a crower rod.

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by foca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a little background on what I am considering. have a stock B16B. gonna use a 1.8 crank for the daily drivability. keep the P72 rods. get some forged pistons at about 10:1 ratio.
any thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, how are you going to fit that in the b16's short deck block? You're aware that the b18s and b20s have a taller deck height, no?

DA_HONDA_BOY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, how are you going to fit that in the b16's short deck block? You're aware that the b18s and b20s have a taller deck height, no?</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://ericksracing.com/id192.html

nfn15037

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gunslinger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


injector was 80% plugged on that cyl went really lean then boom
im currently on stock everything on a gsr making 465whp
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Piston seized in the bore and broke the rod.

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, how are you going to fit that in the b16's short deck block? You're aware that the b18s and b20s have a taller deck height, no?</TD></TR></TABLE>


you do know that a b16b actually shares the same deck hight as b18a,b,c