Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Im beginning a b18c1 build, got the bare block...

My question is what would be better for boost? I would like to eventually be boosting 16-18 lbs, obviously I'll be building the block from the bottom up..

I've heard of a lot of people boring the engine to 81.5mm, but I've also heard of people getting 83mm sleeves..

Which would be better off for the most possible potential? And what size bore would also bring the best potential?

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

How much power are you looking for and what turbo? More info on the setup? whats your budget.?
Sleeve block is always better than stock block. But thats why I ask for budget.

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

No actual budget right now, its not going to be an instant build, Im still in college and working two jobs to get the money, but I make alot in the summers, the way I look at it, I want to keep it under 10k by the end of the engine build, thats with the turbo kit..Im a total noob, but I'm learnin, damnit :) Jeeze, umm, powerwise, I probably want to end up with 350-450whp, that sounds like a pretty decent legit goal

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

ill trade you budgets.

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Haha whats that supposed to mean?

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

How about a timeframe? How soon do you want something built?

I'd start by sleeving. With your budget, sleeving is definitely in order.

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

You can make 350-450whp on stock sleeves, but if your budget allows, you would be better served to sleeve the block. It adds a level of insurance to your build. I know your budget is rather hefty for what you're trying to accomplish but shop around a little before deciding what to do. It would be a shame to throw money at something that isn't 100% necessary only to fall short in other areas. I would build a budget and have it broken down into part subsections before moving forward...

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

I think for the power goals you have, you could better spend your money than on sleeving. If not on quality turbo parts, then on quality tuning. If not on quality tuning, then on getting your car to hook up 350-450 whp.

But if you feel that in a year (or less) you'll be bored with it and wanna shoot for big numbers, than go ahead and sleeve it.

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Also, what size would be best for a boosted setup? I have heard both that higher compression is better, and that lower is better..Would a higher compression be more prone to breaks?

I was reading around a little, and I have quite a bit of literature being delivered as we speak, but it seems that if I were to go with bore-ing (rather than boring like "yawn") a popular bore seems to be 81.5mm, but with sleeves I have seen a large popularity with 83mm sleeves.

Thank you all!

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

For stock sleeve setups, the common bore is 81.5mm because with the stock bore being 81mm, the next step up (and the only larger bore safe for boost on stock sleeves) is 81.5mm.

As for sleeved setups, people pick a variety of sizes. Most people stay in the 83-84mm range for the first bore since that gives one room to work with in case of problems. The biggest bore of course being 85mm for boost and 85.5mm for NA.

Compression depends on your use for the car, the characteristics you want, the fuel you plan to use and how much power you're going to make. This works in conjunction with your turbo setup. A properly sized turbo with a matched engine setup will have a more off-boost power while still working well under boost.

I think you're concerning yourself too much with irrelevant details at the moment.

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

my last setup was a straight gsr .20 over pistons and rods, STOCK sleeves STOCK head,AFI topmount kit with a blowzilla and i made 406@14psi(93oct) and at 22psi 540whp(on c16) so if you ask me you dont really need to sleeve the block to make 350-450 ,BUT what comes into play is cracking a sleeve plus it was tuned by god Miller himself lol

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

I am aiming for 350-450whp, trying to stay under $10k, currently I have a bare 99 gsr block with ~75k on it, looking at my options still.

As for uses, it will essentially be my dd, as I cant afford insurance on 2 cars :( but I would like to be able to keep the boost low (8-10lbs) during the week and turn it up for the weekend fun :devil:

I'm not sure if my budget is TOO high, or not enough, but I'm getting alot of reactions on it lol, but if I can get more hp than 350-450 with 10k, that would be essential.

BTW, this is my FIRST build..never tried this before. Im taking a risk, but its something I've always wanted to do..So basically, I know the bare minimum, and will be using H-T alot for help cuz y'all are awesome! So thank you everyone so far!

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Ok. With your budget, I would send the block out to be sleeved and assembled. There are several companies in the Forced Induction Marketplace that offer such services. Be sure to check around before doing anything. Personally, i would suggest Benson or Golden Eagle sleeves. Start off at 83mm so you have room to grow in the future.

I can help you put together a turbo setup if you're unsure about that aspect as well. Honestly, i would suggest damn near the same setup i have currently. The S256 spools up so nicely on an 81mm GSR, i can't imagine how nice it'd be on an 83mm. It will make your power goal with ease but isn't large and laggy. By the way, there is NO turning this thing down during the week with a build like this. You'll be able to run 16-18psi daily and more on the weekends/trips to the strip/bank holidays, etc...you'll find excuses to go fast.

Do you have access to E85 where you live? Is it easily accessible?? If so, would you consider running that as your primary fuel?? That changes the game if you answer yes...it makes life A LOT easier. If you're hesitant, i run E85 as my primary fuel. Other than a loss in gas mileage, its fine. Plus the cost savings more than compensate for the gas mileage loss

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Yep I've been looking edxtensively about sleeves, and I've pretty much decided on Golden Eagle :thumbup:

We do have a few stations around here that have e85 actually, so yes I do have access!

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Its a hard transition to decide upon, but running solely E85 has its benefits. It has an effective octane rating of ~107 which gives you a lot more wiggle room and the ability to make quite a bit more power than on 92-93 octane pump gas. The trade-off is the decreased mileage (~25%) and that you have to plan for a larger fuel system since it requires ~25-30% more fuel. For your goals, a single Walbro pump will work just fine...you would have to simply get a set of larger injectors. Compared to the cost of running 110 octane fuel or race gas, this is a cheap option

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Holy crap dude, I think maybe I underestimated the power I want...You keep referencing to a lot smaller options that I thought would be too small (i.e. single pump, not sleeving, and a smaller turbo) Maybe I am shooting for a bigger number than I thought..All I know is I want a dd thats a monster, my noobiness is definately showing even more now to myself

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Sleeving it is good for peace of mind :) IMO, if you can afford to sleeve it, it's kind of a no-brainer to me. And Schister is right, E85 with a single Walbro and some good injectors should easily get you to your goals. I should add going to a larger bore just adds a lot of fun to the setup - I'm running sleeved to 84mm and it adds a lot of torque down low :) Just be sure the size the turbo appropriately.

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Meaning with a larger bore, you would want a bigger turbo? Or vice-versa? I'm thinking about going 83mm sleeves from GE

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Precisely. I'm not too sure why you're set on 83mm, but with my 81.5mm build, the T3T4 57 trim 0.63 a/r was perfectly sized to hold to redline. Now on my 84mm build, it's seriously too small. It's great fun hitting boost at 2500, but not so great at the track (which is what I size turbos for, your interests may vary).

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

But by sizing the turbo correctly on the 83 wouldn't it be no different? And where exactly would you want to be hitting boost at for the track? I would like to be hitting boost early on, just because it is alot of fun, but I want to be able to run the best times I can also..

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

i look at it like this....if you want big numbers stock sleeves wont handle the power you want then you need to go sleeves 84mm is the way i would go if you are going to sleeve IMO. anything over 500 i would sleeve

if you want a fun car that is quick and isnt going to break the bank take it out to 81,5 get some weiscos or cps and eagle rods and a nice turbo and put down 400s. This is the cheaper of the 2 options

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

I want to grab 450 maybe 500hp now that I've been thinking, and I would like to have the insurance of the sleeves, I'm not too worried about breaking the bank, and I definately want a beast once I'm done (of course still with the ability to drive daily on the street)

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

Okay so here's what I've got so far (Planned NOT bought)

1. 84mm GE sleeved b18c1
2. JE Pistons 9:1/Crower Rods (http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...-gsr-1020.html)
3. ACL bearings
4. GE Crank (the block came without..should I find a b18 crank instead?)
5. GSR head (possibly B16 head..still reading up)
6. Skunk2 upgraded valvetrain
7. Still reading about cams..any input would be appreciated!
8. ARP Head studs
9. ITR Mani
10. AEM High Volume Fuel Rail
11. AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator


Let me know what you think so far..Need to start tearing into what turbo and researching that while tweaking some more stuff on here probably. Thanks guys!

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

bump..any advice?

Re: Boring vs. Sleeving Question
 

I would start looking into how to read compressor maps, they will help you find the most efficient turbo for the size of your motor and such. Im in the situation you are in as well, im about to be building a gsr and shooting for about 400ish, my current set up is boring lol. but here is a link on how to read them, it can get confusing lol.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html