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Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

 
Old 10-29-2018, 01:53 PM
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Default Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Okay, so I have a boosted B1 with ARP head studs and ARP rod studs. I rebuilt the motor with all OEM parts before boosting it. The turbo kit is a Go-Autoworks kit. I have their intercooler and piping, a Garrett 60-1 T3/T4 hybrid 550hp turbo, Tial wastegate, Aeromotive 340 pump, AEM fuel rail, AEM fuel pressure regulator and ID 1,000cc injectors.

The car made 335 hp @ 11.6 lbs of boost and 356 hp @ 12.4 lbs of boost.

Iím running a cheap Glowshift boost gauge, but it seems to be doing (or at least has been doing) the job.

I recently rebuilt the turbo myself with a G-Pop Shop kit, and took the shaft and wheels to a reputable turbo shop around me to be cleaned and balanced. After breaking the rebuild in, I noticed that no matter how high I crank my MBC, the car wonít hold over 8 lbs of boost. I have boost leak tested and I canít seem to find any leaks, but when Iím boost leak testing, the system wonít hold over 10 lbs of boost, as far as my boost gauge shows me. Iíve sprayed everything with soapy water and Iím not seeing bubbles anywhere.

I have a Turbosmart MBC with the correct line hooked up to the wastegate, with the other line hooked up to a nipple that I welded in the intercooler pipe coming out of the turbo. Like I said above, no matter how high I crank the MBC, the boost gauge wonít read above 8 lbs of boost, and it doesnít feel like itís boosting more than 8 lbs either. I can adjust it to make less than 8 lbs, but nothing over 8 lbs.

Iím not sure if my wastegate is stuck shut or stuck open, but Iím wondering if this is the culprit. How would I go about checking this?

If itís not the wastegate, what else should I go about checking?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Sounds like the wastegate is sticking open, or the MBC is jacked.. At least, that's the first places I would check. Double check your wg plumbing, try another MBC if possible.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Sounds like the wastegate is sticking open, or the MBC is jacked.. At least, that's the first places I would check. Double check your wg plumbing, try another MBC if possible.
This is actually a brand new MBC. Like legitimately less than 100 miles on it - probably less than 50. How do I check the wastegate? I had it off a few days ago and everything moved by hand as it should.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post

How do I check the wastegate? I had it off a few days ago and everything moved by hand as it should.
Please explain the highlighted part.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

1) the boost reference should be at the manifold, not post turbo or on the turbochsrger compressor housing.

2) check what the Wastegate spring was from the box. Of the gate is old, perhaps something is wrong with it, possibly. But first and foremost, chenge boost reference, and turn the MBC all the way down
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Please explain the highlighted part.
I took the wastegate off of the manifold and it was completely shut. With some force of my fingers, I pushed the piston in against the pressure of the spring. It opened and sprung closed. Assuming this would mean the wastegate is working properly. I had the wastegate open, and the seal to the diaphragm was flattened out in of section, but I unflattened it and put some Hondabond on it to reseal it. I know this is the cheap way around it - just donít really feel like buying a new wastegate at this time.

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
1) the boost reference should be at the manifold, not post turbo or on the turbochsrger compressor housing.

2) check what the Wastegate spring was from the box. Of the gate is old, perhaps something is wrong with it, possibly. But first and foremost, chenge boost reference, and turn the MBC all the way down
Iím not quite understanding what youíre saying. Thereís 2 nipples on the MBC - one of which goes to the wastegate, which is at the manifold, and the other goes to a vacuum port, which I have it on the intercooler pipe coming out of the turbo.

Iíve had this turbo kit on a car that I used to drag race, with the MBC setup the same as I have it now, pushing 30+ lbs of boost, running in the 10 seconds.

And I have the red wastegate spring. Iím not sure what lb spring that is, but it held the 30+ lbs of boost that I threw at it before.
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post


I took the wastegate off of the manifold and it was completely shut. With some force of my fingers, I pushed the piston in against the pressure of the spring. It opened and sprung closed. Assuming this would mean the wastegate is working properly. I had the wastegate open, and the seal to the diaphragm was flattened out in of section, but I unflattened it and put some Hondabond on it to reseal it. I know this is the cheap way around it - just donít really feel like buying a new wastegate at this time.



Iím not quite understanding what youíre saying. Thereís 2 nipples on the MBC - one of which goes to the wastegate, which is at the manifold, and the other goes to a vacuum port, which I have it on the intercooler pipe coming out of the turbo.

Iíve had this turbo kit on a car that I used to drag race, with the MBC setup the same as I have it now, pushing 30+ lbs of boost, running in the 10 seconds.

And I have the red wastegate spring. Iím not sure what lb spring that is, but it held the 30+ lbs of boost that I threw at it before.
most eveyone only uses vacuum lines directly off the manifold because of boost drop from intercooler. The manifold is the most accurate reading you can get.
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post


I took the wastegate off of the manifold and it was completely shut. With some force of my fingers, I pushed the piston in against the pressure of the spring. It opened and sprung closed. Assuming this would mean the wastegate is working properly. I had the wastegate open, and the seal to the diaphragm was flattened out in of section, but I unflattened it and put some Hondabond on it to reseal it. I know this is the cheap way around it - just donít really feel like buying a new wastegate at this time.



Iím not quite understanding what youíre saying. Thereís 2 nipples on the MBC - one of which goes to the wastegate, which is at the manifold, and the other goes to a vacuum port, which I have it on the intercooler pipe coming out of the turbo.

Iíve had this turbo kit on a car that I used to drag race, with the MBC setup the same as I have it now, pushing 30+ lbs of boost, running in the 10 seconds.

And I have the red wastegate spring. Iím not sure what lb spring that is, but it held the 30+ lbs of boost that I threw at it before.
I found a clue, Scoobydoo!!
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post


most eveyone only uses vacuum lines directly off the manifold because of boost drop from intercooler. The manifold is the most accurate reading you can get.
I believe he's stating it's on the hotpipe, PRE intercooler.
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
I believe he's stating it's on the hotpipe, PRE intercooler.
yep, thatís why I was hinting that it might need to be moved
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
I found a clue, Scoobydoo!!
Maybe I will go ahead and order a new diaphragm. Iím just not understanding why the Hondabond wouldnít seal it up.

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post


yep, thatís why I was hinting that it might need to be moved
You said that you get boost drop from the intercooler. The pipe coming out of the turbo is pre-intercooler. And when you say Ďmanifoldí are you referring to the intake manifold? Because if so, thatís post-intercooler, so wouldnít I be seeing the boost drop?
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post


Maybe I will go ahead and order a new diaphragm. Iím just not understanding why the Hondabond wouldnít seal it up.



You said that you get boost drop from the intercooler. The pipe coming out of the turbo is pre-intercooler. And when you say Ďmanifoldí are you referring to the intake manifold? Because if so, thatís post-intercooler, so wouldnít I be seeing the boost drop?
pre intercooler in my mind would be between the turbo and intercooler. Boost levels are always higher on the turbo side of the intercooler. Pre mean before and post would refer to after, or so I thought. Lol
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post


pre intercooler in my mind would be between the turbo and intercooler. Boost levels are always higher on the turbo side of the intercooler. Pre mean before and post would refer to after, or so I thought. Lol
Well, yes, the nipple on my intercooler piping is on the pipe coming out of the turbo, going into the intercooler, so it would be pre-intercooler. So from what youíre saying, this should be okay then, right? It goes turbo ->pipe->intercooler->pipe->intake manifold
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Buy a new diaphragm. If it has a weak spot, putting RTV on it won't hold it...for long. Try putting a hole in a balloon and then trying to seal it up with something, then blow it up - it won't hold.

It's not the end of the world to have your wastegate / MBC coming off the upstream side of the intercooler, however it is better practice to have it come off the intake manifold, after the throttle plate.
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post


Well, yes, the nipple on my intercooler piping is on the pipe coming out of the turbo, going into the intercooler, so it would be pre-intercooler. So from what you’re saying, this should be okay then, right? It goes turbo ->pipe->intercooler->pipe->intake manifold
no. You need your wastegate to read what the motor sees. The wastegate could see a higher boost pressure than the boost gauge or ECU and open prematurely and could cause some floating as the piping try’s to equalize. All lines should be connected to the intake manifold and the connection on the turbo should be plugged. Depending on the size and flow of your intercooler you might not see a big difference, but in a case of fast spool up, you might have the wastegate prematurely open if you get some spike between the turbo and intercooler. I’ve seen boost levels bounce around before because of the use the turbo connection. Best way to think about is like a tire out of balance, at certain speeds it can get way out of control
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Buy a new diaphragm. If it has a weak spot, putting RTV on it won't hold it...for long. Try putting a hole in a balloon and then trying to seal it up with something, then blow it up - it won't hold.

It's not the end of the world to have your wastegate / MBC coming off the upstream side of the intercooler, however it is better practice to have it come off the intake manifold, after the throttle plate.
That was a really good way to explain it. Looks like Iíll be ordering a new diaphragm tomorrow!

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post

no. You need your wastegate to read what the motor sees. The wastegate could see a higher boost pressure than the boost gauge or ECU and open prematurely and could cause some floating as the piping tryís to equalize. All lines should be connected to the intake manifold and the connection on the turbo should be plugged. Depending on the size and flow of your intercooler you might not see a big difference, but in a case of fast spool up, you might have the wastegate prematurely open if you get some spike between the turbo and intercooler. Iíve seen boost levels bounce around before because of the use the turbo connection. Best way to think about is like a tire out of balance, at certain speeds it can get way out of control
Understood. So hereís another question then. Iíve heard some bad things about teeing into things. I donít have the factory PCV system on the motor, as I have breather box running to 4 different places on the motor. I have the BOV line running into the nipple on the intake manifold where the PCV line would originally go. Would it be alright to tee the MBC line into this line? This might be a dumb idea, but Iím gonna ask about it anyways - what if I drilled the intake manifold and tapped it and threaded a barbed fitting into it (given thereís enough material to thread it) for a vacuum source for the MBC?
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Either way will work. Again, Teeing in isn't the end of the world, but best practice would be to run a vacuum manifold with a large supply line to the manifold and regular sized lines to components, or like you suggested, to drill / tap the intake manifold for a dedicated line.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post


That was a really good way to explain it. Looks like Iíll be ordering a new diaphragm tomorrow!



Understood. So hereís another question then. Iíve heard some bad things about teeing into things. I donít have the factory PCV system on the motor, as I have breather box running to 4 different places on the motor. I have the BOV line running into the nipple on the intake manifold where the PCV line would originally go. Would it be alright to tee the MBC line into this line? This might be a dumb idea, but Iím gonna ask about it anyways - what if I drilled the intake manifold and tapped it and threaded a barbed fitting into it (given thereís enough material to thread it) for a vacuum source for the MBC?
only thing I have against drilling and tapping would be if the intake is still attached, the smallest sliver shaving can get stuck under a valve.... trust me, it happened to me and I had to pull the head off only to find a tiny metal shaving that come off a intercooler pipe. It took 2 secs to knock off the shaving and 5 hours to remove the head buy and put a new head gasket on and pay the machine shop to pressure test the head. A vacuum manifold always sounds better to me lol
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post


only thing I have against drilling and tapping would be if the intake is still attached, the smallest sliver shaving can get stuck under a valve.... trust me, it happened to me and I had to pull the head off only to find a tiny metal shaving that come off a intercooler pipe. It took 2 secs to knock off the shaving and 5 hours to remove the head buy and put a new head gasket on and pay the machine shop to pressure test the head. A vacuum manifold always sounds better to me lol
So, then get a vacuum block, that uses the brake booster as the main source of vacuum, and use that as the main point if something else from that vacuum block is already attached to the Intake manifold as a reference. Either way, you can boost pressure leak until the cows come home, but because this is a MAP based car, you're not going to find them in the same way as a MAF car from say a Subaru or Evolution. You need to get a better reference source.

You wanted solutions, you're getting them. We didn't say you'd be in love with the solution. But this is the best way to keep consistent boost pressure readings. Especially when /if you find that your diaphragm for the wastegate is perfectly fine.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Either way will work. Again, Teeing in isn't the end of the world, but best practice would be to run a vacuum manifold with a large supply line to the manifold and regular sized lines to components, or like you suggested, to drill / tap the intake manifold for a dedicated line.
I think Iím going to go ahead and drill and tap the manifold.

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post


only thing I have against drilling and tapping would be if the intake is still attached, the smallest sliver shaving can get stuck under a valve.... trust me, it happened to me and I had to pull the head off only to find a tiny metal shaving that come off a intercooler pipe. It took 2 secs to knock off the shaving and 5 hours to remove the head buy and put a new head gasket on and pay the machine shop to pressure test the head. A vacuum manifold always sounds better to me lol
Iím pretty meticulous when it comes to things like this, as Iím a CNC machinist. Iím gonna drill and tap the manifold. If I do get shavings in the engine somehow, I can have the head off in an hour. Fortunately, I know the B series like the back of my hand.

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
So, then get a vacuum block, that uses the brake booster as the main source of vacuum, and use that as the main point if something else from that vacuum block is already attached to the Intake manifold as a reference. Either way, you can boost pressure leak until the cows come home, but because this is a MAP based car, you're not going to find them in the same way as a MAF car from say a Subaru or Evolution. You need to get a better reference source.

You wanted solutions, you're getting them. We didn't say you'd be in love with the solution. But this is the best way to keep consistent boost pressure readings. Especially when /if you find that your diaphragm for the wastegate is perfectly fine.
I donít think the wastegate is fine though. The diaphragm is flattened out in 2 separate places, and oddly enough, I figured out that I had a 5 lb spring in the wastegate. I say this is odd because Iíve used this exact turbo setup in the past, pushing 30+ lbs of boost, running 10.8 second quarter mile passes.

I ordered a new diaphragm and a 10 lb spring today. Should have them tomorrow or Thursday.
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
So, then get a vacuum block, that uses the brake booster as the main source of vacuum, and use that as the main point if something else from that vacuum block is already attached to the Intake manifold as a reference. Either way, you can boost pressure leak until the cows come home, but because this is a MAP based car, you're not going to find them in the same way as a MAF car from say a Subaru or Evolution. You need to get a better reference source.

You wanted solutions, you're getting them. We didn't say you'd be in love with the solution. But this is the best way to keep consistent boost pressure readings. Especially when /if you find that your diaphragm for the wastegate is perfectly fine.
I think you replied to the wrong person.... I agreed 100% with you in my post
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by GSR_ITR_BOIB View Post
I donít think the wastegate is fine though. The diaphragm is flattened out in 2 separate places, and oddly enough, I figured out that I had a 5 lb spring in the wastegate. I say this is odd because Iíve used this exact turbo setup in the past, pushing 30+ lbs of boost, running 10.8 second quarter mile passes.

I ordered a new diaphragm and a 10 lb spring today. Should have them tomorrow or Thursday.
At least you're eliminating possibilities. That was really my point. Not to assume that the diaphragm is fine. Sorry for any confusion
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
At least you're eliminating possibilities. That was really my point. Not to assume that the diaphragm is fine. Sorry for any confusion
Not a problem! The diaphragm and new spring just got here. Iím in the process of getting everything back together right now!
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Boosted B18B1 wonít boost past 8 lbs, according to my boost gauge

Got an update on this?
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