Giuseppe

ive read /searched and found a lot of info
so id like to know what u guys are running...

if a mini filter is placed on the valve c. ppl say:

bad because oil saturates the filter..
bad because is creates a bad gradient of
crank case pressure which leads to "catastrophic bottom end failure"
good because it prevents the crank case from seeing boost.
to prevent any damage
good because if your seals are good, you shouldnt have any
problems

if the valve c. it connected to the intake piping (pre throttle body)
via a nipple

bad because the crank case sees boost which is bad
bad because in boost oil exits valve cover and finds its
way to the throttle body and eventually the intake manifold.
good because the honda engineers designed it that way
so air would enter the valve cover.
good because TOO says so...!

whats the deal here.....there must be a consensus..!


[Modified by Giuseppe, 12:42 AM 2/26/2002]

Cramerox

ever concider running an oil catch can?

Giuseppe

sorry double post.


[Modified by Giuseppe, 12:48 AM 2/26/2002]

Giuseppe

yes a moroso is definitely going in before boosting..

b18bvudoo

yes air should enter the valve cover breather, but not under pressure in a boost setup. i have a small filter hooked on mine and its fine.

Giuseppe

maybe the only solution to boosted ppl
is to run a mini CIA to the valve cover...

1fstevo

After quest of searching for the right answer, i have talked to some of my friends in cali drag scene, they basically run a long tube with a filter connected from valve cover down to the bottom of the car. Then place a oil catch can between the manifold the pcv valve can.

But I have talk to one guy saying the best way is use oil catchcan with a electrical vacuam pump to pull crankcase vapor out of the Pcv valve instead of relying on the manifold pressure since oil still going to find it's way into the engine. Catch can helps but only can do so much, the car should have zero contact between the manifold and the crankcase vapor.

InfamousRS

Is that what the Endyn breather kit does? Its just a moroso catch can I know, but does it solve this problem?

dustin

Breather filter is just a fresh air intake for the PCV system.

Don't listen to any of that "larry@endyn slashed tube" nonsense because it is not true.

Dustin

Giuseppe

see thats what i mean, even the TOO board is bs..?!?!


[Modified by Giuseppe, 2:47 AM 2/26/2002]

EE_Chris

dustin - How do you know the information from EN.DYN. is nonsense?

When people start boosting, what they don't realize is that they are creating more pressure in the crankcase. This pressure needs to be vented, which is why you'll see some people use an electric vaccum pump. The people who throw those K&N breathers on there valve cover, I feel, are asking for trouble...this is where your 'oil soaked filter' comes into play. With no pressure on the valve cover, this extra pressure in the crankcase will sometimes force oil out of the valve cover....thus the soaking comes in.

This is why you should vent the valve cover to an area of 'positive pressure' as suggested by EN.DYN and there slash-cut tube method.

The stock PCV system is ample for a stock setup....but when boosting, it becomes a restriction to crankcase vapors.

Perhaps sometime you can do an experiment....find a boost/vaccum gauge and tee it into your PCV system and take a look at crank pressures...might surprise you.

Ri5e

If you connect it to the problem, before the air enters the turbo, it should be no problem. Also, a tip, add an inline mini filter in between the line somewhere. That will keep some of that oil out of the turbo.

BUT, then again, it's bad if you have a lot of blow by because it'll kill your turbo.

rtype11

if you do not evacuate the crankcase pressure you will have bad ring seal, especially bad when breaking in a new motor.

brcivic411

That's what i did. I have it connected to the intake before the turbo.. with a catch can inbetween just in case

dustin

Because it has been refuted a thousand times.

Now, other than for emissions reasons (which is why the PCV system exists), why would it matter /where/ the oil vapors went to ? The volume of the crankcase is changing constantly (motor running), and the rings never seal 100%. Thus we have a fresh air inlet and an outlet (the PCV). CARB would prefer that these oil vapors were not released into the atmosphere... they want your car to burn them. If only your car ran on oil this would be a great idea.

Understand that the amount of pressure you think you are creating with this "slash tube" nonense is negligible. It is easier for the air to just flow into the motor (where an area of LOWER PRESSURE exists, aka vacuum) than to bother with your so called "under pressure" valve cover through a 3/8" hose. That slash tube nonsense just isn't going to evacuate anything.

Apparently not that restrictive, because we are all using breather filters. So your solution to the "restrictive stock PCV system" is to "pressurize" it on the air inlet side? How much extra do you think that PCV valve is going to flow due to your "ram air" effect?

A closed PCV system exists to keep CARB and all the tree huggers happy, not to help your motor. It is getting fresh air through the breather filter, who cares where the old air goes? You do understand the purpose of the PCV system, right? It's just to keep the oil clean and allow somewhere for the extra crankcase air to go.

Dustin

Xerxes

Okay now here's the kicker -- why do we even need the crankcase vapor thing to go to the manifold? why can't that just go to an open tube somewhere (apart from environmental reasons)??

people who say that you need a vacuum to evacuate the crankcase pressure, that's bullshit
If you have higher-than-atmospheric pressure in your valve cover, for example, and the valve cover breather line is hooked up to a filter, then the higher pressure inside will evacuate itself due to the pressure differential between the valve cover and the outside air.

same thing with the crankcase, couldn't we just put a breather filter on the crankcase? why bother with the complicated catchcan and/or pcv valve setup if we aren't worried about emissions?

-Xerxes

dustin

People might say that the vacuum ensures that all of the "contaminated air" leaves the crankcase. I personally do not like the idea of my motor ingesting tons of oil vapor, however. I am sure that plenty of fresh air would enter the motor if both the breather (inlet) and pcv (outlet) were left open atmosphere.

Dustin

Xerxes

HMmm i suppose if air only comes in through the valve cover breather and only goes out through the crankcase breather hole then you end up with some sort of air flow through that gets the oil vapor out.. hmmmm...

so in that case, why would it be bad to have boost going in through the valve cover breather? I.E. hooking up the tube between the turbo & and the manifold?

Dustin how do you have your car set up?

I have the stock pcv valve and then the valve cover breather just goes through a hose towards the ground (no filter)

-Xerxes

dustin

You would not want to do that, because the rings will not seal correctly if there is positive pressure on the other side of them.

I am using the stock PCV system with just a breather filter on the valve cover. Works fine.

Xerxes

Ah, good point.
Now isn't it true that some people have blow-by problems due to their pcv valves getting stuck? If my memory serves me right, one of the reasons for using a catchcan is that the pcv valve often fails and doesn't let the crankcase breathe. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

-Xerxes

civicwagonman

the motor needs vaccum on the crankcase to help the rings and also to keep from blowing all your oil seals out as there is pressure in the crankcase when the motor is running. the best solution is to get a one way valve from a brake booster, or even a pvc valve inline which will allow proper vaccum on the crankcase normally and won't allow boost to go in when the turbo spools.

boosted3g

You could do like me and just take the guts out of the stock PCV valve. Now take a line and run it to a Moroso crankcase ventilation valve on the downpipe. It is basically a venturi on the exhaust creating vacuum an thus sucking the vapors out the exhaust. Then just put a filter on the other valve cover fitting (on an LS anyway) and it will work good. Jsut make sure that you have the fitting in the exhaust behind the 02 sensor and youll be good.

dustin

That sounds like the best soution. CARB is gonna hate you =P

FBP Ex-T

some guy i talked to a long time ago...told me that the best advice he could give me was to buy a buick grand national pcv valve...its good to do....he signed off begore i could ask anything....and i forgot his adress so...i might do it and see what happens.....im jsut gonna put a filter on my valve cover and that should be fine....

X2BOARD

yes, the stock PCV system will, in no freaking way, keep up with the crankcase pressure resulting from a turbo and will more than likely kill your ring seal...... get a catch can... and the exhaust venting system sounds like a trick idea, but wouldn't you cough out some smoke pretty frequently ? (after boosting).