h22aprelude4g

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wantboost

iTrader: (2)

the better business bureau is a joke. unless you were injured, they don't care

going to small claims court would be your only option.

any time you use an unbarbed fitting the hose most be secured or it will blow off. never take anything to this shop again

SpokaneSpeed

Not much you can do other than to try and pursue legal action. Don't waste your time with BBB, just go through small claims court.

As mentioned, any un-barbed fitting should be secured with a clamp.

Sorry to hear about your experience, but it sounds like the shop is not competent enough to be doing that type of work =/

h22aprelude4g

Thanks guys, much appreciated. Heard small claims court can take months..

In the meantime, since this is my daily driver, is there anything cheaper than an engine rebuild that I could do to at least drive it?

SpokaneSpeed

Unfortunately yes, can even take years in some cases. This is your daily?! Might consider picking up a cheap daily - highly modified turbo cars aren't always reliable enough to be a daily ;-).

To answer your question - proabably not, but depends on the extent of the damage. Have you done a leak-down test to determine if the damage is within the cylinder head or the bottom end?? Knowing what I know about H22's, you more than likely melted a piston(s) and/or destroyed the piston ring lands... Not much you can do besides rebuild it. Do you have another shop in your local area that is competent enough to bring it to for the rebuild?

TravisBiggie

first problem : you paid someone to work on your car

time to start learning to rebuild yourself... where are you located?

h22aprelude4g

Still looking, what would you say is a reasonable ballpark for piston/piston ring replacement?

I'm in Colorado.

TravisBiggie

depends what pistons you want. figure a minimum of 3-400$ for labor. Depending if they want to pull the whole motor or just replace the pistons n rings from the bottom.

SpokaneSpeed

Hard to say without seeing the damage - if you're lucky, the cylinder walls are not damaged, but highly unlikely. Being FRM sleeves, it could be very spendy.

I would recommend having the engine removed, disassembled, and properly rebuilt to ensure you do not have any future issues. Are you running stock internals?

turbomaniac

the best thing you can do is to tell them that if they dont help you rebuilding your car (IMO you must pay all the parts needed and they must do the work for free, as it is the best gain you can afford), you are going to inform all the forums about the incident...

you sould have seen the increased boost... how came not to?

m4xwellmurd3r

From the sounds of it, the shop he used will probably laugh at him and not give two ***** if he tells internet tough gaise they messed up

h22aprelude4g

Yup, stock internals.


I asked them to install my gauges along with the turbo, but they said they don't do interior installs and I need to take it to a A/V shop. So they knew there's no way we could have monitored any boost increase.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

Did they tune the car too? No boost cut set?

LightningTeg

The bigger problem is why there was no fail safe / boost cut. Was it tuned?

Schister66

My first thought as well...

If it was tuned, it should have had boost cut.
If it was untuned, you shouldnt have been boosting on it anyway.

boostjunkie757

if it was on a stock h22, especially untuned, this is where you would be in about 3 months anyway..

snobordboy

Sounds like your best bet would be to drop in a used jdm engine, return it to stock, and drive it.

As has been said, a turbo setup on a stock h22 can be very finicky, and if the shop who did this was so lax about how they did the work, I would not have any trust in the tune, if it was even tuned. This kind of setup you as the driver need to have a thorough understanding of the whole setup, how to look it over, what to watch for when driving etc. If the shop would not install gauges to monitor the health and safety of the engine, they should never take on an install of something like this.

Unfortunately I see this as a buyer beware situation. And you had a shop modify a 20 year old car, there is really no expectation of the engine lasting, or any warranty for something so likely to fail.

sirtef9

iTrader: (4)

What shop? im in Colorado as well.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

How did you come to realize that it was 1) An overboost condition, and 2) that it was the "unbarbed T-piece" from the wastegate?

Also, which part of the wastegate did this "unbarbed T-piece" come from? Your description is vague and a picture would really.

The only reasons why I ask this is not to help them out or to question your aptitude to see if you're the one at fault, but to help yourself out when or if you decide to go to court or arbitrator. Remember, you've got the responsibility to show actual proof that it was that exact hose and their lack of care that was the direct cause of this overboosting condition that lead to the death of your motor.

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Here's a couple of areas to check out when gathering your information. Some of it may require some cost on your end to gather and perform. Keep records of those costs so you can add them to your lawsuit.
(It's a bit long, but I've found that these are pretty important steps from what I've seen).

A)-If you have any logs showing a time frame as to when the car met its demise from the your Software. (I.e. detonation, spike in high boost, the car going into limp mode or check engine, etc).

B)-Written statements from a certified technician that works with turbocharged setups that stated that this engine was destroyed due to detonation or an overboost condition. (signed is a must, notary is a plus ). Yes, immediate lowering of compression helps, but you need to have photos of a cracked ring or diagnostic statement showing that the engine was ruined and its from this.. This is the kind of information that is GOLD .

C) -Evidence of communication (other than your statements here) between you and the negligent shop that show that 1) their statements are contrary to what the other technician was saying was the cause of destruction and 2) that they are not willing to work something out, and refuse to work with you again. this can even be by recorded phone conversation, but you'd better check with local laws to see if it allows you to record them without their consent on the phone. If not, you can't use it in court.

D) -Evidence of what it reasonably cost to repair the car to operating condition turbocharged. That may mean more than just an estimate from another shop. (It may be that you have to cover yourself by paying for the new engine and install, then keep those receipts to show in court how much you had to pay to cover the cost of getting you back on the road. ). Any receipts for towing fees and alternate transportation to work would help you too (like cab, bus, or gas receipts from friends getting you a ride to work while your car is getting repaired and back to condition.)

Later on, this could include the cost of a tune, but don't hold your breath. That also means that you can't "pad" the bill by adding what would be "unnecessary" equipment to the repair.. so, for example, you could possibly add a boost gauge and 02 sensor, but you couldn't add a UEGO wide-band or get a block sleeved and expect to be repaid for it. Any extras, you'd be expected to pay out of pocket for.

E) - Find out what contracts you signed as you agreed to have them do the work. Your receipt is a great place to start, but see if you had signed any releases of liability when you agreed to do the work. We all get excited when its time to start, and we all tend to overlook anything that we signed or agreed to when they took the keys. These contracts aren't set in stone, but they do sometimes tell whether or not you can go to court, where or if you have to use some other means.

F) -Lastly, find out what amount in controversy limit is for small claims is in your state. (some states its $3K- $5K , others its $10K,) and see if there are any issues regarding them going to a higher court where you need a lawyer.

A lot of larger businesses will try to move a case to district court to bully people out of a small claim case because of the requirement to retain a lawyer, which in some situations is more money than the cost of the case itself. Don't fall for this. If you can, keep it to small claims and get as much back as you can. It might not be all of it, but some reclaim of money is better than No reclaim of anything..
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I find that with information like this, (and yeah, it'll take a while to gather this stuff and get you back on your feet), your time will be well-spent as you file your suit in small claims court or go before an arbitrator. But you'll need to bring your patience, a clear head, and your "A" game . Because as you said, this will take a while, so you might as well get prepared for your own case as the time goes by.


This use of your time goes a lot better than "bashing", even if they give a crap about internet sales or reputation. Its much more constructive. Because if you're not careful, and say the wrong thing in your frustration, they could come and suit you for libel. Especially, if the claims you're making are untrue...and you know or appear to know that they're untrue.

Remember, Courts only care about getting you back to the point as though everything went fine with the first deal, and that you have damages like Pain, suffering or stress. Courts also make sure that you don't get free stuff, either.


I really wish you luck on this.. This sucks donkey *****.

Dark_Teg

Inspect what you expect.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

if this is your first turbo charged honda experiance i feel really bad for you.

after the engine blew up did go go into the shop raising all hell?
I hope not.

also chances are that if you didn't know how to do the work yourself and something blew, your not in a very good position to question their work because if you knew how to do it, you certainly would have.

I've had my share of bad experiance... in fact 3yrs ago when i first went turbo very similar to yours...on the way drive home from picking up the car at the shop, the issues started to come up...

whitesihatch

what shop?

Pursue legal actions, and call your State Attorney General

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

He can easily google his state's attorney general gov't website and get the forms and information as to how to file a small claim. He'll more than likely just get a phone recording of how to go to their website and do the exact same thing. Even if he got an attorney, what i stated above is what you use to "pursue legal action". An attorney will just charge him an hourly rate to submit an "angry letter" to the shop, which has little chance of being answered.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Its not the shops fault it the customers.. he should have never wanted a turbo charged setup.. amirite shodan?

92frostwhtdb2

What a useless thread op wanted to go "fast" and got screwed chances are the car wasn't even tuned, shop wouldn't even install a boost guage??? Really..