Dartanian

I am blowing a lot of oil recently and I can't pinpoint the problem. It is a lot of oil since I am a quart low after a week. My setup is a stock internal GSR with a GT3255E at 10psi tuned with Neptune on E85.

It smokes on deceleration/heavy vacuum but only when the engine is warm. I'll rev it up a little in neutral and it will smoke heavily a few moments after returning to idle. This leads me to believe valve seals but they were replaced recently too. Could it be worn valve guides? I also put new rings and bearings in less than 3k miles ago and it was smoking prior to the rebuild, so I don't think the problem exists in the bottom end. Any ideas?

steven_highet

Do a leakdown test and see what you come up with.

Also disconnect you boost piping at the turbo side and see if there is any oil in the piping.

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven_highet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do a leakdown test and see what you come up with.

Also disconnect you boost piping at the turbo side and see if there is any oil in the piping.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll see if I can get my hands on a leakdown tester. I've run a compression test and cylinder 2 was slightly lower than the rest, so that may lead me to my problem.

I disconnected the piping at the turbo and there was no oil in there. If the turbo seals were bad, it would be leaking into the turbine side where it is burnt on the hot parts. Possible?

steven_highet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dartanian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'll see if I can get my hands on a leakdown tester. I've run a compression test and cylinder 2 was slightly lower than the rest, so that may lead me to my problem.QUOTE]

How much is slightly lower?

[QUOTE=Dartanian]

I disconnected the piping at the turbo and there was no oil in there. If the turbo seals were bad, it would be leaking into the turbine side where it is burnt on the hot parts. Possible?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sometimes both side, sometimes one side evantually becoming both.

Whatever the problem is oil in your intake charge or leaking into your cylinders is very bad and can cuase detonation due to lower of the octane rating!

Smoking at Vacuum is definitly an engine problem!

Dartanian

180 psi vs 200 for the other three.

Dartanian

Any other opinions?

totsie7944

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dartanian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any other opinions?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You don't have a vaccuum line on the black box on the back of the block do you.....?

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You don't have a vaccuum line on the black box on the back of the block do you.....?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am running an endyn setup, so I don't have a black box anymore.

totsie7944

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dartanian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am running an endyn setup, so I don't have a black box anymore.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Ok well it could be:

Headgasket
Valve guides
Valve seals

I would start with pulling the head (which means replace the headgasket IMO) and taking out the valve train and inspecting everything. It sucks, but its a 1 day job if you've done it before.

welfarepc

its your exhaust side oil seal in the turbo.

think about it really hard and it will make sence

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by welfarepc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its your exhaust side oil seal in the turbo.

think about it really hard and it will make sence</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was my first assumption considering the manifold didn't have any oil residue inside the runners. I wasn't sure though considering the turbo has less than 10k miles on it.

Under boost, the compressed air pushes the wheel toward the exhaust side and seals the leak under load and then in vacuum, the seal is opened back up again. The leak is burning oil on the hot turbine wheel and causing my smoking problem. Is this correct logic?

Would a thicker oil help alleviate the problem a bit while I determine my options on having it rebuilt?

SovXietday

Any oil any other time? During full boost or anything like that?

welfarepc

mine does the same... smokes when i come to a stop, and there is some oil in my down pipe

but not during full boost. and not while cold (i think because the exhaust isnt not enough yet)

i assume its because while im downshifting the throttle is close and the turbo isnt spinning nearly as fast yet the oil pressure is still high because of the rpms

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any oil any other time? During full boost or anything like that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My friend was following me and said it was only smoking on shifts and deceleration. I don't see any smoke behind me when I drive, so I assume it isn't blowing smoke under load.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by welfarepc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mine does the same... smokes when i come to a stop, and there is some oil in my down pipe

but not during full boost. and not while cold (i think because the exhaust isnt not enough yet)

i assume its because while im downshifting the throttle is close and the turbo isnt spinning nearly as fast yet the oil pressure is still high because of the rpms</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you can say for certain that the turbo is the problem in your situation? How much oil do you go through as a result?

Darrell Bs 10SecEG

Hey try taking off the turbo kit and plug the turbo oil line with a fitting and plug the drain.Put a header on it and drive it around and see if it still smokes.If it doesnt,Then your turbo is bad.I do this before I pull my engine apart and it saves me time and labor.It should only take you an half an hour to do that.

totsie7944

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Darrell Bs 10SecEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It should only take you an half an hour to do that.</TD></TR></TABLE>h

If you can pull off a turbo and manifold and bolt up a header in 30 mins I'd like to shake your hand. I just say this because most headers you have to take out your radiator to get the runners to avoid hitting the fans. haha

To the OP, if your only seeing the smoke between shifts, it could very well be the turbo. If it were your headgasket you would see it all the time, especially under boost when your head will want to lift.

If you have access to a header I'd agree you should try that first, and then after that I would pull the head IMO if you still are burning oil

Dartanian

I don't have easy access to a stock manifold or header. If I can track one down, I'll try this.

I am pretty sure the headgasket is fine since it has less than 3k miles on it and it was smoking the same way prior to the tear down. Valve seals were replaced 20k miles ago, so that leaves the valve guides. How common is it for them to go out on a stock head with 170k?

totsie7944

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dartanian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't have easy access to a stock manifold or header. If I can track one down, I'll try this.

I am pretty sure the headgasket is fine since it has less than 3k miles on it and it was smoking the same way prior to the tear down. Valve seals were replaced 20k miles ago, so that leaves the valve guides. How common is it for them to go out on a stock head with 170k?</TD></TR></TABLE>


well at 170k, I'd say the chances are that they are bad, but I'd try the turbo first, because if you pull the head, you can take your head to a shop and they can install new seals pretty cheap, but why do all that work if you have a bad seal in the turbo?

Dartanian

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by totsie7944 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


well at 170k, I'd say the chances are that they are bad, but I'd try the turbo first, because if you pull the head, you can take your head to a shop and they can install new seals pretty cheap, but why do all that work if you have a bad seal in the turbo?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. I want to make sure that I fix the problem the first time instead of wasting money throwing unnecessary parts at it.

The more I think about it, the more I think the turbo is the problem. The headgasket and valve seals were replaced recently, so I'm inclined to rule those out. Since I didn't notice any oil residue in the runners of the manifold, it is pretty evident that the oil is burning further downstream.

I'm going to look into a rebuild. Thanks for all the help guys.

SovXietday

Well... let's put it this way. Turbo rebuild kits are around $80 generally, and it's probably your problem too.

welfarepc

i cant say for SURE that the turbo is my problem but i am confident enough to share it with the world. if that helps.

ive thought about it really hard. researched. installed an adjustable restrictor, and am slowly closing it more and more. and its smoking less and less.

but to be honest, theres a thin line when restricting the oil to make it stop smoking also starves the journal bearings. and im about 95% closed as it is.

i dont burn much oil at all. i would say i lose more from the oil plug gasket i neglected to replace when i installed my new pan last weekend

Darrell Bs 10SecEG

Hey bro u can shave my head but u live too far.lol

I figure at least an hour depends which turbo set up he has!!!

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well... let's put it this way. Turbo rebuild kits are around $80 generally, and it's your problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dartanian

Where is the best place to find a rebuilt kit? Would my turbo use the same rebuild kit as a typical t3/t4 would?

Would this be what I need?: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW


Modified by Dartanian at 4:03 PM 6/21/2008


Modified by Dartanian at 4:04 PM 6/21/2008

welfarepc

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