sp00led

Well the day finally came that I had all my parts together and installed. We thought everything was all good until we got onto the dyno. Here is how it went down.

We started the motor up and everything sounded great. We had only one small water leak from a cracked hose and had to play with it some but quickly got it to idle fine. The car ran for about 15-20min, we noticed it got up to temp and everything seemed ok. The next day we pull it on to the dyno and plan to part throttle tuning. This is when we noticed the problem...

After taking it up to 4k we began to let it engine break to about 2k. As the revs fall from 4k to 2k, we noticed a good bit of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. The smoke appears white but smells like burning oil or fuel. After looking things over we notice the lower radiator hose is still cool. For some reason, the thermostat wasn't opening. We drain the coolant, remove the thermostat and ensure that everything was flowing properly. Now the lower hose is getting warm like it should. It gets back up to temp but sure enough same thing as before. White smoke rolling out pretty steady.

Keep in mind this doesn't happen while accelerating or idling. Only while the motor is decelerating in gear and fully warmed up.

Called Earl and told him about what was going on just looking for ideas and we decided to do the basics. Compression/Leak down test. The compression test was 175-177 across the board. Then the leak down test showed pretty much similar results in relation to cylinder compression numbers. 2-5% leak down in each cylinder. We could not hear any air escaping from the normal problem areas and verified there were no air bubbles in the radiator escaping.

I hope someone can shed some light on this mystery. We have been banging our heads on this one thinking anything from a dropped sleeve to incorrect PCV routing. Mainly looking for a few suggestions/ideas from the honda-tech pros or anyone with similar experiences.

Here is the setup used for this latest project. I planed to show this off with a dynosheet/video but due to the circumstances I had to unveil it in its current state.

B18C1 9:1 Earl assembled longblock
83mm CP Pistons
Pauter Rods
Benson Sleeved
Headwork by Portflow
3-angle cut/P&P
Supertech valvetrain
JDM ITR cams/full-race gears
Full-Race Intake Manifold
Full-Race stage2gt/ac GT3076R .82 a/r
PWR Radiator
Thermal 3"
RC 1000cc
AEM FPR/Rail
Hondata S300 P28
Qualife LSD
ACT XTR6/Streetlite
GM 3bar
Hasport mounts
Moroso aluminum pan w/ pickup
Fluidampr
GE 83mm headgasket

turbotime

i feel your pain whats your pcv setup? What headgasket?

smoke on decel is usually valve seals if im not mistaken.... but since you say its white maybe headgasket? How new are the valveseals?

a1320addict

iTrader: (1)

Hope ya figure it out Lee

4rc-fed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i feel your pain whats your pcv setup? What headgasket?

smoke on decel is usually valve seals if im not mistaken.... but since you say its white maybe headgasket? How new are the valveseals?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Golden Eagle 83mm headgasket

Everything in the head is brand new except the used ITR cams. Portflow did the work on the head. I guess anything is possible but do to their rep it's hard to believe they would send it back to me if something didn't look right.

The valve cover is tapped in the front and is open on the stock nipple. PCV black box is still in the back. At first it was setup to dump to the atmosphere. We tried it connected to the IM and thought we were getting somewhere however once it was back to normal running temp. it started smoking again just as bad. The motor temp. definantly seems to be a factor.

JdmEKCivic

did you pull of the icp and check to see if the turbo is leaking? also check your return line and make sure it's not kinked and that the oil is flowing smoothly.

coneheadsracing

I've been having similair issues too....

Rebuilt my motor, just stock, compression test was perfect, for the y8 it is.

Problems i was having, turbo was leaking oil after running, only into the exhuast side. PCV setup may be an issue as well.

I put in a restrictor, didn't seem to help me. I was thinking too much oil, it does spool quicker now, so thats a benefit. Still get oil inbetween the exhuast and the center housing, again only after its stopped.

Did a track day last thursday, had lines running from valve cover, and black box, to a can, and the other end to pre turbo. Started sucking oil, made a huge mess, so i removed it, and just vented open atmosphere. The oil was coming from the block, not the head. So, i ran that line out my hood and it vented onto my window i just wanted to make sure it wasn't leaking anymore. My first couple laps, moisture came out, and some smoke for a bit. Then the rest of the day, and the next day driving around town, no smoke no oil. Still comes out my exhuast though.

Another wierd thing, i get oil in my charge pipes, but only up by my blow off valve, nothing near my turbo....

The valve seals were done last year, and have maybe 5000 miles on them, i did clean the head with brake clean... anyone know if that hurts them? I'm thinking about redoing them, just to rule it out. At this point i'm stumped. I've done three track days, car stilll runs like a champ, just smokes...

So, i guess are there any similarities with what i've described to your issues, maybe we can help eachother out here.

boosted94cx

couldn't it also mean it's running really lean? a local shop did a mild GSR setup..and was having major issues with fuel...under wot it'd go extrememly lean and they'd let off...and on deccel, it's puff white smoke a LOT...but ONLYYY on decel and never any other time

sp00led

ttt

triax7000

i had the same problem when i was on the dyno too, i got a full race setup with a gt28rs, it only smoked on the dyno and on decel. i totaly rebuilt the motor, new bottem end new valve seals in the head etc last month. my smoking problem ive determined it was my turbo oil seals were leaking.hope this helps cause pretty much the same thing happened to me. make sure u have a restictor on your turbo, the gt series dont like the high oil pressure our motors put out.

DaveF

my car does that same ****.

i think its from too much fuel on decell.

Chris22215

damn lee, so close. Give me a call later if you get it finished

quicksilver1689

tuner error?

4rc-fed

night bump

95GSRTT

i personally never liked my earl built block. Always seemed to have some problem with it... but I doubt its like that for all of his builds.

sp00led

the cause of the problem is still unknown.

Earls work is top notch, no one is blaming anyone

c-techracing

you should have had mike build it we have multiple 30psi pulls on my motor and still strong. .02

miller

a little off topic, but 2-5% leakdown?? wtf

did you happen to do a coolant system pressure test?

sp00led

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by miller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a little off topic, but 2-5% leakdown?? wtf

did you happen to do a coolant system pressure test?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't have the exact data per cylinder . Out of the 4 the lowest one was 2% and the highest was 5%. These numbers also seemed to corespond with the compression numbers. I thought generally anything under 5% was ok is that not the case?

We have not done a coolant system pressure test. We might just give that a try.

sp00led

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">couldn't it also mean it's running really lean? a local shop did a mild GSR setup..and was having major issues with fuel...under wot it'd go extrememly lean and they'd let off...and on deccel, it's puff white smoke a LOT...but ONLYYY on decel and never any other time</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by quicksilver1689 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tuner error? </TD></TR></TABLE>

We used a dynojet wideband and also had my plx wideband taking reading from the downpipe. Both read good numbers.

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my car does that same ****.

i think its from too much fuel on decell.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i tuned a friends car that seemed to do this too. Didn't notice it until we were on the dyno, but everytime you would let off after a pull you'd hear a loud bang and a huge puff of white smoke. It was like fuel cut wasn't kicking in quick enough upon decel. Timing and fuel were just fine as well.

Chris22215

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It was like fuel cut wasn't kicking in quick enough upon decel. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Could be. I think you might have some bad valve stem seals on the exhaust side.

happened to me

sp00led

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris22215 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Could be. I think you might have some bad valve stem seals on the exhaust side.

happened to me </TD></TR></TABLE>

What is the best way to troubleshoot valve steam seals? Keep in mind portflow assemebled all this. If it was something that could be visually inspected I'm sure it would have never came back to me messed up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i tuned a friends car that seemed to do this too. Didn't notice it until we were on the dyno, but everytime you would let off after a pull you'd hear a loud bang and a huge puff of white smoke. It was like fuel cut wasn't kicking in quick enough upon decel. Timing and fuel were just fine as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No odd noises or loud bangs from this setup. What was the fix for this problem?

miller

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sp00led &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't have the exact data per cylinder . Out of the 4 the lowest one was 2% and the highest was 5%. These numbers also seemed to corespond with the compression numbers. I thought generally anything under 5% was ok is that not the case?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

2-5% is not acceptable on a fresh engine, it should be 0-1%.

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris22215 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could be. I think you might have some bad valve stem seals on the exhaust side.

happened to me </TD></TR></TABLE>
this definately wasn't oil smoke though. I've seen similar smoke say when you are doing a pull and shut the car down to check the plugs. If you were still staying in the gas for a second when you shut down the ignition the excess fuel will explode real loud and you'll see a cloud of smoke out the back.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sp00led &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No odd noises or loud bangs from this setup. What was the fix for this problem?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It seemed to stop happening after he switched to different injectors.

Chris22215

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by miller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

2-5% is not acceptable on a fresh engine, it should be 0-1%.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should never have 0% leak down on a motor. 1-5% is fine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sp00led &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What is the best way to troubleshoot valve steam seals?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well if there's not any oil on the plugs when it's smoking. The only way to look and tell would be to remove the valve springs on the exhaust side, remember a little oil makes a ton of smoke