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BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

 
Old 05-02-2017, 05:43 PM
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Default BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

So I've got a 95 GSR that I'm going to be boosting. Its not my daily, just a fun toy. It's got nearly 230,000 miles on the clock. It was a one owner car with EXCELLENT service records; been very well taken care of. I've had the valve cover off and it's cleaner than most cars with less than 100k.

Anyways... I've done a compression check 3 different times. After I just bought the car (about a year ago) I checked it twice with the "5 cranks": each cylinder method. All cylinders had between 230-235 compression. I did 2 checks back to back, because I was surprised (kinda in disbelief) that it was that good. Both checks read the same. Recently I did another check, this time I cranked it more like 7 times just to see how high it would go... every cylinder went over 240psi. Each of my compression checks were with completely cold and dry (no oil added) tests.

So my questions is.... should motor milage really have anything to do with motor health? I mean my compression is real good from everything i read.

This is my 1st honda, but like my 6th turbo car so I'm not a turbo newb (I come from DSM's and EVO's). This is my 1st high milage stock internals build though (and I'm still learning Honda mechanics).

I'd like to meet a goal of 300whp all stock internals. High quality build; No cutting corners. Just a fun little street car to play with when weather is nice. No matter the high mileage though... I should be good to turbo as long as all signs point to a healthy motor, correct?

Last edited by backroadCR-V; 07-01-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:23 PM
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Default re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

You are good to go man. From my experience mileage is not nearly as important as proper maintenance. Make sure your timing belt is in good condition, use a quality turbo setup, get a proper tune and enjoy your ~300whp car.
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:50 PM
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Default re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

This is how she was the day I brought her home.


For the first 5 months I did nothing but maintainence and restoration.

Mechanically the car was very well maintained but I still swapped out everything i didn't have a record of. All head seals, crank seals, all belts, and water pump are now new. Plus all shift bushings, and lower linkage new to get that super crist feel. Some suspension bushings new. I'm doing it the exact opposite way that most newbs would do it... The least fun (and most responsible) stuff 1st lol. I have a slight leaking oil pan gasket but I'm going with the myhondahabit stud and gasket kit.

This year I've been starting to mod some. Keeping it real classy with original Parts. Mugen header and Twin Loop exhuast. Mugen front and rear tower braces.



But today I ordered a whole list of parts. Basics being.... Go-Autoworks turbo kit with GTX2867R, Grams 750cc Inj, Walbro in-tank 190 (quieter than the 255), Hondata, Comp Stg4 Clutch. And every other little supporting mod needed. I spent more today on turbo kit and supporting mods than I did on the whole car lol... but all in all for the total price of everything it's gonna be a fun little street car for the price.

Last edited by backroadCR-V; 07-01-2017 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:59 PM
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Default re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

It should be alright but i'd keep an eye out for the main bearings.
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Old 05-03-2017, 08:13 AM
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Default re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

I'd also be on the lookout with that pump. The Walboro 255 G42 High-volume pump was used for a reason on these hondas vs. the Mitsubishi's, especially with that size injector. You need the high-volume pump. You'll just have to deal with the noise, but I don't recommend that 190lph at all with those injectors.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: High Milage Motor + Boost

Originally Posted by Syeder View Post
It should be alright but i'd keep an eye out for the main bearings.
main bearings, like crank main bearings?

im willing to do whatever needs to be done on the outside but unless I have noticeable issues inside I'm not gonna open anything up.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I'd also be on the lookout with that pump. The Walboro 255 G42 High-volume pump was used for a reason on these hondas vs. the Mitsubishi's, especially with that size injector. You need the high-volume pump. You'll just have to deal with the noise, but I don't recommend that 190lph at all with those injectors.
can you explain further on why u don't recommend the 190? People use it for power levels that are higher than 300whp. Again I understand the Hondas are a different animal (I'm still learning) so that's why I ask why not the 190? The reason I bought the 750 is because i want the supporting mods to run 400whp down the road when I decide to build the bottom end. Everything I bought I speced out more for the 400whp range (for the future block build) even though I'm just shooting for 300whp now.

ive already ordered everything already but if I have too upgrading the pump won't be a problem if needed.

Last edited by backroadCR-V; 05-03-2017 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Add comment:
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Old 05-03-2017, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Why bother dicking with the 190? 255 HP is like $75
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

As stated above I'm trying the 190 because I'm looking for a quieter pump. Both are basically the same price. I've had 255's in other builds and even a 400. I just thought I'd try something new.
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
As stated above I'm trying the 190 because I'm looking for a quieter pump. Both are basically the same price. I've had 255's in other builds and even a 400. I just thought I'd try something new.
for some reason there have been very erratic fuel fluctuations through the lines (from my experience with both pumps on DSMs, and Hondas on the 190lph. They haven't changed in 15 years.

If you want a quiet car, keep the thing stock and don't do anything to it. Otherwise, get the right equipment now, so we don't get frustratingly fiduciary questions of why things aren't working later.
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
for some reason there have been very erratic fuel fluctuations through the lines (from my experience with both pumps on DSMs, and Hondas on the 190lph. They haven't changed in 15 years.

If you want a quiet car, keep the thing stock and don't do anything to it. Otherwise, get the right equipment now, so we don't get frustratingly fiduciary questions of why things aren't working later.
ok man we'll I'll take your advice on it then and see about getting it switched to the 255. I bet the pump won't ship until the whole kit is ready and it like 4-6 week wait on go-autoworks kits anyways so it shouldn't be a issue. I appreciate it Shodan 👍🏼
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
ok man we'll I'll take your advice on it then and see about getting it switched to the 255. I bet the pump won't ship until the whole kit is ready and it like 4-6 week wait on go-autoworks kits anyways so it shouldn't be a issue. I appreciate it Shodan 👍🏼
Be happy it'll only be 4-6 weeks. I know Go-Autoworks are one of the very last companies that are devoted specifically to Hondas for the entire turbo kit. Many colleagues and friends that have started in this business have honestly given up on the average Honda enthusiast and moved onto other endeavors.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Be happy it'll only be 4-6 weeks. I know Go-Autoworks are one of the very last companies that are devoted specifically to Hondas for the entire turbo kit. Many colleagues and friends that have started in this business have honestly given up on the average Honda enthusiast and moved onto other endeavors.
Oh I'm Glad I went with go-autowroks. I'm sure I'm gonna be very pleased with their kit. Many of the old DSM shops have move onto other things as well, especially after the EVO went outta production. i appreciate go-autoworks for supporting a nearly 25 year old system, that most people totally cheap out with junk Chinese parts. Most people have no I dea the cost and effort it takes to build a quality kit. I got $1800 just in supporting mods for this kit, and that's just basic (but quality stuff); and doing my own work without labor cost. This turbo kit will have cost double the price of the car, and it's really just a basic kit (high quality but basic). A lot of people don't understand what it REALLY takes. Anyways......
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:34 AM
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So.... please please excuse this next question.
I know it's been beaten to death a hundred lives over. But I'm reading so many opinions; many of the search thread results are 10-15 years old.

All things being healthy.... By today's standard, what is a safe HP Limit for a stock internal b18c?

so many search result threads are so old. Real old ones say 260whp max, then 280whp, then 300, some now say 350-370whp to be safe.

This isn't my daily. Gets driven maybe 100miles a month. I've done several stock internal DSM setups. My motto is always more boost for more power; keep timing low, & AFR's rich. This method has served me well. My GSR goal is 300whp and I know the car will be plenty fun at that level. But later on if I get greedy.... is 350whp gonna be ok till I build the bottom end? I understand the question is relative and hypothetical... just curious what "today's" max-hp stock-internal-block standard is.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
So.... please please excuse this next question.
I know it's been beaten to death a hundred lives over. But I'm reading so many opinions; many of the search thread results are 10-15 years old.

All things being healthy.... By today's standard, what is a safe HP Limit for a stock internal b18c?

so many search result threads are so old. Real old ones say 260whp max, then 280whp, then 300, some now say 350-370whp to be safe.

This isn't my daily. Gets driven maybe 100miles a month. I've done several stock internal DSM setups. My motto is always more boost for more power; keep timing low, & AFR's rich. This method has served me well. My GSR goal is 300whp and I know the car will be plenty fun at that level. But later on if I get greedy.... is 350whp gonna be ok till I build the bottom end? I understand the question is relative and hypothetical... just curious what "today's" max-hp stock-internal-block standard is.
Just because the results are 10-15 years old doesn't mean its wrong. Little has changed in the way of this engine platform for over 24 years. So, the standard really hasn't changed.

Your motto is a bit outdated because of the fact that you've dealt with so many DSMs; Honda B-series engines like ignition timing, and more boost for more efficient power is true, but only relative to the size turbocharger used. The B-series is a much more efficient engine than the 4G63 by way of cylinder head design. This is why I was saying to get all of that DSM thought process out of your head and use a 255lph pump, keep static compression at 10.0:1 and above, (oh yes, I said it.... I can see your mind blowing already. ) , and 300whp is perfectly fine on the stock B18C1 engine provided that the engine is healthy. That's been the same benchmark for over 20 years for that engine. You just use a different turbocharger to do that with, and you're talking at minimum 48lbs/min before doing it. You don't worry about the boost pressure level so much,because you using a more efficient cylinder head and higher rpms to work with anyway.

About 300-320whp is about as far as safe limits go. There are some outlyers out there, but usually that's because that particular person is just pushing the limit.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

I had my stock jdm gsr (10.6-1 compression) with arp headstuds at ~370whp at 12psi on 92 octane pump gas for close to 4k miles. I street tuned it so my power numbers are based on weight and trap speed. Since then I've dropped pistons and rods in and raised compression to 11.7-1 and added methanol injection. So far I have it on 16psi and I'm sure it's well over 400whp now.

If you don't want to push it stay right around 300whp and it will last a long time. One thing you'll definitely notice coming from the dsm world to the efficient vtec Honda engines is how much more power you can make on a lot less boost. These little vtec engines are a ton of fun with boost.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:58 PM
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Yeah lol I need to get all that dsm stuff outta my head. Coming from DSM's that we're built for boost and didn't have to be effecient, I'm totally surprised and amazed at how efficient the B-series motor is. I know honda efficiency is old news to you honda guys, but it's still a secret to most of the American motoring world.

ive been tuning my own motors for awhile now (with AEM EMS, & ECM tuner). My ecu is off getting Hondata s300v3 right now. There will be a little learning curve with the s300 platform, but I have more to learn about what a b18 likes, then i do about tuning itself. My GTX2867R is rated right at 48lbs/min so I should be good there. I'm building a fun street car, not wanting to try to compete with big-boy locals. I kept the turbo smaller as to not tempt myself hah. Spool will hit under 4K RPM, and if I can get a solid 300whp no matter how hot the day is (with PS & AC) that would be my most ideal goal on this motor.

We'll see how long this motor last at 300whp. I'm not going to pull it out as long as it's healthy. Maybe it'll last awhile especially as much as I use it. I won't baby it though so we'll see. I'll keep this thread updated as I go. Will be interesting to see how it works out; boosting a engine at 230,000 miles lol


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Old 05-04-2017, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
Yeah lol I need to get all that dsm stuff outta my head. Coming from DSM's that we're built for boost and didn't have to be effecient, I'm totally surprised and amazed at how efficient the B-series motor is. I know honda efficiency is old news to you honda guys, but it's still a secret to most of the American motoring world.

ive been tuning my own motors for awhile now (with AEM EMS, & ECM tuner). My ecu is off getting Hondata s300v3 right now. There will be a little learning curve with the s300 platform, but I have more to learn about what a b18 likes, then i do about tuning itself. My GTX2867R is rated right at 48lbs/min so I should be good there. I'm building a fun street car, not wanting to try to compete with big-boy locals. I kept the turbo smaller as to not tempt myself hah. Spool will hit under 4K RPM, and if I can get a solid 300whp no matter how hot the day is (with PS & AC) that would be my most ideal goal on this motor.

We'll see how long this motor last at 300whp. I'm not going to pull it out as long as it's healthy. Maybe it'll last awhile especially as much as I use it. I won't baby it though so we'll see. I'll keep this thread updated as I go. Will be interesting to see how it works out; boosting a engine at 230,000 miles lol
The GTX2867R Gen I is more like 45lbs/min. Think of it as a 20G on some steroids, requiring a little more boost pressure than a good 50 "trim" 54mm inducer/75mm exducer old-timer. Getting that amount of power on a hot day will be easy, but unlike the DSMs which had an engine bay designed to have all the amenities and remained turbocharged, you need to take a few extra precautions on the A/C lines and compressor to ensure longevity, due to their close proximity with one another.
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Old 05-04-2017, 09:36 PM
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I'll be sure to keep updating progress. Starting to receive delivery of some supporting mods. Will little by little get stuff installed, and by the time the T-kit arrives... it'll be going right in.

Good call on the AC, I'll wrap the AC lines with a quality heat sheilding wrap, and will probably end up making a heat shield for the compressor. It's all the little things that count

if I didn't mention it already Go-Autoworks changed my order to the Walbro 255. It was as simple as asking for it. Can't get better service than that.

How bought a pump re-wire? Is that necessary for the 300whp power level? I would say something like "well DSM's bla bla bla, rewire when bla bla bla..." but I'm starting to learn lol. When searching I'm not finding exactly when (or at what HP level) it's beneficial to re-wire.
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
I'll be sure to keep updating progress. Starting to receive delivery of some supporting mods. Will little by little get stuff installed, and by the time the T-kit arrives... it'll be going right in.

Good call on the AC, I'll wrap the AC lines with a quality heat sheilding wrap, and will probably end up making a heat shield for the compressor. It's all the little things that count

if I didn't mention it already Go-Autoworks changed my order to the Walbro 255. It was as simple as asking for it. Can't get better service than that.

How bought a pump re-wire? Is that necessary for the 300whp power level? I would say something like "well DSM's bla bla bla, rewire when bla bla bla..." but I'm starting to learn lol. When searching I'm not finding exactly when (or at what HP level) it's beneficial to re-wire.
Definitely shield the AirCon Compressor if you can, but also wrap the exhaust manifold or have it Cerakote -high heat coated. That will really help the engine bay as a whole. I will worn you, that AirCon compressors tend to wear out on Hondas over time as you get to the higher rpm levels more often. They really weren't designed to stay that way forever. Especially at the mileage you're at if you're on the original compressor.

Pump rewiring isn't necessary for the Walboro 255. Power level isn't really the test to change wiring, it's the wiring itself (age, wire shielding, etc) and the pump size you use. When you start getting over 450lph, at that point its a good idea to look at the wiring. You really find that unlike the DSM world (I remember my 1GA like it was yesterday, although I sold my 2 almost 10 years ago) Honda OEM makes some of the most robust parts for this engine platform. You don't start getting into the big changes unless the purpose of the build changes. Otherwise, rock on with what you have going now.

Clutch is also a bit different. We don't go by 2100 or 2600 ACT numbers like we did back in the day. Like the 4G63, torque is the determining factor for what clutch you need, as the OEM can't hold torque of turbocharging that well. For this power level, I recommend an Exedy 08950B "Stage II" clutch and stock resurfaced flywheel combination. easy to manage, easy to install, and break-in is a subtle 300-400 miles. But do that before going to the dyno and don't break it in on the dyno. Like with the DSMs, you slip that clutch wrong, it's pretty much ruined.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:19 AM
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I'll be sure to fab a compressor heat sheild then. I'm also going to have Hondata turn off the AC before RPMs get too high (say above 5k). Even though I live in the South Ill rarely use the AC in it. I just want the full-street-car option. I use AC in my daily all the time, but in my FunCar I like to roll with the windows down.

Good to know about the pump retire. One less thing to do.

i plan to resurface the stock flywheel if needed. As good as everything else is on this car I'd be surprised if it hasn't been babied like the rest of the car. Maybe I'll get lucky and not have to touch that too. From what I research (pre parts-order research) the Competition Clutches were a good choice. So I've got a Comp Stage4 Clutch and Pressure plate that's probably gonna be here tomorrow. Hope that will serve me well.

did my 1st couple of turbo build mods today lol






Small mods but important none the less 👍🏼

Last edited by backroadCR-V; 07-20-2017 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 05-05-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
I'll be sure to fab a compressor heat sheild then. I'm also going to have Hondata turn off the AC before RPMs get too high (say above 5k). Even though I live in the South Ill rarely use the AC in it. I just want the full-street-car option. I use AC in my daily all the time, but in my FunCar I like to roll with the windows down.

Good to know about the pump retire. One less thing to do. I'm glad I switched to the 255 too because I was looking over my order list last night and noticed I had decided to order 1000cc Inj. Atleast I did that right; the Grams 1000s will give me plenty of room, and still have good drivability.

i plan to resurface the stock flywheel if needed. As good as everything else is on this car I'd be surprised if it hasn't been babied like the rest of the car. Maybe I'll get lucky and not have to touch that too. From what I research (pre parts-order research) the Competition Clutches were a good choice. So I've got a Comp Stage4 Clutch and Pressure plate that's probably gonna be here tomorrow. Hope that will serve me well.

did my 1st couple of turbo build mods today lol

Small mods but important none the less 👍🏼
Wow.. WAY too much clutch for that kind of power. This is for over 250% lbs-ft of torque, which you're not going to be even close to making, with a bit more of leg travel. I'm sure young people disagree with me, but I like smoother, lighter engagements. And yes, you MUST evenly resurface the flywheel for any new clutch on a Honda that you plan to use. There's no "IF NEEDED" about it. That's still DSM talk right there.

Competition clutch is not a bad company. I think, however, you should have asked for a bit more practical feedback on the option choices available.

But, you never know. What one doesn't like, others do.
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:32 PM
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I think 250% more clutch is about right. Say the stock clutch holds 140-150lb/ft, 250% of that is 350-375lb/ft, and wanting to stay under 80% of the new clutches rating puts me at 280-300lb/ft rating for the new clutch. If I turn up the boost or build a bottom end later Ill still be good. I'd rather have more clutch, than just-enough. I also live in the country where there is NEVER any stop and go traffic. So the extra pedal pressure won't bother me much. Clutch actually just came in.


maybe I'll go ahead and order the flywheel too so I'll have everything starting fresh.

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Old 05-05-2017, 01:36 PM
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Supporting mods are coming in




Plan is to make steady progress and just have everything complete by the time the turbo kit arrives.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: BackroadCR-V's High Mileage B18C1 + Boost Progress Build Thread

Originally Posted by backroadCR-V View Post
I think 250% more clutch is about right. Say the sticker holds 140-150lb/ft, 250% of that is 350-375lb/ft, and not wanting to stay under 80% of the new clutches rating puts me at 280-300lb/ft rating for the new clutch. If I turn up the boost or build a bottom end later Ill still be good. I'd rather have more clutch, than just-enough. I also live in the country where there is NEVER any stop and go traffic. So the extra pedal pressure won't bother me much. Clutch actually just came in.

maybe I'll go ahead and order the flywheel too so I'll have everything starting fresh.
Ok. But you'll never make that much torque even when you "turn up the boost" with that turbo. Not until at least the 500whp mark.... Honda is not DSM. They don't make the torque-to-rate ratio you think.
Example: B18C1 at about 350whp makes about 270lbs-ft of torque. that's less than half of the torque capability of that clutch. That basically means that you'd need about 480lbs-ft before that clutch is near its limit. That's over 650whp that the engine needs to make in order to make that amount of torque!!.

But getting another flywheel is fine, but don't get it too light. 12lbs or so is more than enough.
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