slotec

I just installed some 00 ITR cams, a skunk 2 Intake manifold and Throttle Body. The car was tuned before I had this stuff. I had been driving the car around with the skunk 2 stuff for about a month now (weekends only). I didnt have a problem at all until I installed the cams then the car started to spike and hit boost cut. Im currently on 13-14psi tuned but it wants to hit about 16psi(boost cut). Car seems a bit sluggish now in higher gears. Here is a pic of my #4 cylinder plug which looks the worst, the other 3 look pretty normal. This is the first time actually taking the plugs out for about 2-3 months.




These are also 3 step colder plugs. My tuner also tuned pretty conservative. Should I be ok if I just get it retuned.


OK so I ttalked to a few people (including matt). I was told the car is prolly geting too hot on that cylinder and to do a compression test. I did the test this morning and here are the results.

Cylinder 1<U></U>
170 (test 1)
180 (test 2)

Cyliner 2<U></U>
170 (test 1)
172 (tet 2)

Cylinder 3<U></U>
190 (test 1)
180 (test 2)

Cylinder 4<U></U>
180 (test 1)
182 (test 2)

This is a low compression jdm B20B, ITR head with valvetrain, skunk 2 IM and TB, and turbo junk.

I am just going to pick up 2 or 3 sets of new NGKs and just wait to get retuned before I drive it anymore.


Modified by slotec at 5:03 PM 1/22/2008

welfarepc

wow parts of the strap are missing... thats from some high temps for sure

might want your tuner to take a peek

slotec

I just took a razor blade to the strap so it looks like build up or something. It chips off into white powder. Hope this helps

Schister66

Wow...i guess common sense isnt as common as i thought. If you installed new cams, IM and TB one would think that a retune would be necessary, but then again, that's the intelligent thing to do. Get it retuned before you crack a sleeve or ringland.

JACER63

looks a little like oil burn? imo does your car smoke at all {blue smoke}?

slotec

Im getting it retuned before I drive it again. It does smoke when I get on it a little but I also dont have exhuast just open downpipe.

ncturbocivic

Man, get Matt to take a look at that soon. My buddies B20 started doing the same thing. He used a borescope and found his pistons to badly beaten. His engine is stock though with boost. Be careful, those pistons are weak from what I have seen in person. Seriously though, get Matt to go back over it.

JDMs1eeper

Marcus, get matt to retune. Not only are you making 30-40hp (maybe) more at 12psi... but you are now running 16psi due to creep. And you have no idea what the AFR's are doing or if the engine is liking the current timing. So you def. need to retune.

You might be feeling sluggish on topend due to it being super lean. As for your plugs, get a new set because you cant accurately read them after 2-3 months of driving. Get 2 new sets, one for the tune and one to have as spare. After its retuned, look at the plug strap and read the heat mark... Its a heat stain youll see on the strap. You want it in the middle of the strap, towards the bend. Too far at the base or too far at the end will tell you if the plug is too hot or too cold for your application.

Couple Pictures to refer too. They are pictures from a STR4 guy who needed help reading his plugs... lol picture is like 3 years old but gives you an idea of what to look for on a fresh set :

turbodano

Good info right there.!!!!!!!!

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good info right there.!!!!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

quicksilver1689

i dont think checking the base is accurate for AFR's, i have always looked deeper inside the plug at the "fuel ring". Also fresh plugs are required for a more accurate fuel reading. Detonation is detionation so no matter the age of the plugs youll see its wrath. a 100% wot pull on brand new plugs, then turn it off , dont let it idle, is what ive found shows exactly whats going on with the fuel mixture.


Modified by quicksilver1689 at 11:44 AM 1/22/2008

JDMs1eeper

I agree.

quicksilver1689

i hope that guys b20 is ok internally, hopefully the pistons didn't take too much of a beating.

Tippyman

Damn man...

Do you have a wideband in the car? It seems like you're just getting more air at different points in the rpm range due to the new cams. A new tune is mandatory.

slotec

OK so I ttalked to a few people (including matt). I was told the car is prolly geting too hot on that cylinder and to do a compression test. I did the test this morning and here are the results.

Cylinder 1<U></U>
170 (test 1)
180 (test 2)

Cyliner 2<U></U>
170 (test 1)
172 (tet 2)

Cylinder 3<U></U>
190 (test 1)
180 (test 2)

Cylinder 4<U></U>
180 (test 1)
182 (test 2)

This is a low compression jdm B20B, ITR head with valvetrain, skunk 2 IM and TB, and turbo junk.

I am just going to pick up 2 or 3 sets of new NGKs and just wait to get retuned before I drive it anymore.

JDMs1eeper

Good to see the numbers come out ok

slotec

yea somewhat of a relief. Im just going to go straight race gas this time around

HiProfile

To give you an idea, if you push 20% more air in the cylinder than you're tuned for, you would go from 12:1 AFR's to about 15:1 AFR's. Even at just 10% more, which would be 13.5:1, would be way too much for even an NA tune. With boost, you're motor's probably pinging like crazy.

As for the comp test, even if you average your test 1/2 numbers, you're at ~8% difference. I wouldn't feel safe until the head was off and I saw the pistons. The last think you want is for a valve weakened by detonation to break and destroy your pistsons, block, AND head.

I know its a pain to pull it all apart, but its more of a pain to work your butt off paying for a new motor & getting it back in there.

slotec

very true. Im still debating on if I should pull the head or just hope everythings ok. Worst case I buy another B20 for $650.

JDMs1eeper

Good Luck marcus

TDogg Teg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMs1eeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good Luck marcus</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2, keep us posted for sure.

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slotec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">very true. Im still debating on if I should pull the head or just hope everythings ok. Worst case I buy another B20 for $650. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Like i said Marcus we should try doing a leakdown test on it. I can borrow that tester if need be and we can do it at my house. I've seen perfect compression results still yield busted *** ringlands before. When tuning this motor before he put all of the new upgrades on the plugs looked perfect. A few mods and a few fifth gear pulls later and its obvious she needs a retune

Tippyman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Like i said Marcus we should try doing a leakdown test on it. I can borrow that tester if need be and we can do it at my house. I've seen perfect compression results still yield busted *** ringlands before. </TD></TR></TABLE>

A little bit of oil or fuel to the rings will make them seal better, yielding a false reading. Your valves could also be a little burned as well but could still build compression with enough cranks. Leakdown will tell you how much air is escaping the cylinder, and more importantly, WHERE it is escaping.

Ej1ownzu

If I were you Marcus I would take the 45 minutes to pull the head just to check over everything. Incase of a weakened valve you won't be just buying a new b20 but also a new head!

.PLUMMM

Damn, I hope everythings alright dude. Leak it down with Matt, retune it, and then come back with GOOD news