woodenchef

Hey, I just pulled out my B16a, with the cable tranny out of my 91 civic wagon I just bought. So here are my questions that I have with b20 turbo build. I will be doing this build over the winter time and my starting budget atm is 1600. I want to take my time and do this build right. I plan to have a budget of 3000 plus my starting budget.

I currently have a full b16a swap in my garage. Did a compression test on it before I pulled it 155/160/160/170. Has a blown head gasket previous owner had a turbo on a stock b16a I believe, and blew the head gasket.

I want to have a safe and reliable build and get around 300 whp.

1.Which b20 block should I be choosing? There is this b20b(low comp&high comp), Or the b20z. I have seen turbo builds on both, but I hear b20b is better to low comp.
2. Should I keep my b16a head, rebuild it and go b20vtec turbo?
3. Which transmission is best to use? Should I keep the cable transmission on b16a(Makes a noise though while clutch is engaged) ? Or buy the GSR LSD or non LSD transmission?
4. I will be doing a head gasket, and head studs for sure. Is there anything else I should look to upgrade before I drop the b20 in?
5. What turbo size should I be looking for to reach my goal?
6. Engine Mounts: Should I buy hasport mounts? Use the ones off my b16a? Or should the b20 block come with mounts? I plan on buying from eaglejapanmotors.com

justYncredible

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EsotericImage

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I would use the $$ to buy the B20 block and have the B16 block sent off for work. B16's really shine under pressure. B20's are hit and miss. Some have had great results, other havent.

If your B16 trans needs a rebuild, check out syncrotech. theyre one of the sponsors on here and heard great things. http://shop.synchrotech-transmission...issions_c3.htm

Turbo size is the t3/t4 50 or .57 trim. Just your standard turbo that will get you to your goal.

I use HardRace mounts, but Hasports/Innovative/Avid are just as good.

Just my .02

woodenchef

I believe I will go with a B20B with the 8.8:1 compression. Do a head gasket, and ARP Headstuds. I would like to start looking for a turbo kit.

Will a ebay kit compared to a name brand turbo kit change the chance of my engine blowing? Or just the turbo and turbo accessories blowing or being bad quality. I plan on getting the car tuned at a well known Honda tuner from my location. Right after I get the whole set up dropped in and completed.

There is no LSD that comes in a cable tranny? I could of swore there was. So than the only way is to either convert to hydraulic clutch which I heard is costly, and hard to do. Or get the cable to hydraulic converter like you said.

How much do you think it would cost for the block to get redone? What kind of work would this entail do you think? People say it cost more to get it redone than to just buy a whole new engine? Or put the money into building my b20b more.

I have heard B20's can be very reliable if tuned properly, and not revved passed what they are not meant too. Unless it is a fully built b20. My concerns though are I can cheap out on building my engine, and put more money into getting a really good turbo kit. Or build my b20 more, and say get a cheap turbo kit like ebay?

justYncredible

iTrader: (1)

cheap and turbo do not go hand in hand

build the b16 for turbo and just simply drive the car with the b20 in it. shmebay kit have poor quality parts plian and simple. you have to pay to play, just understand that now.

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

^^

good advice

Modding cars isnt cheap.. and realize you wont get the $$ back once you cross the line where you put 5000 worth of mods on a 2500 car. Going fast isnt cheap either.

You also have to plan on a good suspension to control a car with 2-3 times the power is designed for. So your ball joints, trailing arm bushings, among other things need to be checked and/or replaced if needed.

Clutch should be upgraded as well.. So keep that in mind when crunching your numbers..

heres some solid advice

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/building-your-dream-car-101-a-3102979/

woodenchef

Thanks for the information guys. I remember someone once telling me this. "Choose two things, Fast, Cheap, and Reliable. You can be fast and cheap, but you won't be reliable, or you can be fast, and reliable but it will not be cheap. You get my drift lol.

Schister66

Rather than buying a B20, just buy an LS (b18a/b) instead. A simple LS/VTEC with your B16 head would be a nice setup and you could beat on it a bit more without worrying about the sleeves cracking

1SIKMOWR

Has anyone here done a b20 turbo build or b20vtec turbo build chime in?

Schister66

There's a nifty little SEARCH button for a reason...try it

grumblemarc

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https://honda-tech.com/search.php

1SIKMOWR

If you google alot of this. You dont find alot. If you did find alot of info on a b20 turbo build he wouldn't be askin. Im not sure how many get honda tuning mag here. But there was a good read like 2 months ago, at the front of the mag saying how alot of vet honda builders say just us search button like people don't. I have on this forum and found maybe 3 b20 turbo post. None that offer the info he is looking for. So if a non-troll can chime in and help. It will help the honda world grow. Or you can push people away from it... Thank you.

justYncredible

iTrader: (1)

help the honda world grow huh...dude it has grown TO much! turboing hondas have been around since the mid to late 90's, so all the info is out there for the taking. if you are to lazy or do not know how to search for things on the internet then that is a personal problem. im not attacking you but come on man! i stopped reading magazines a long time ago but to hear "alot of vet honda builders say just us search button" just tells me how serious this has become. ive notice we get a lot of "flavor of the month"members that come around and disappear. yeah its super easy for me to tell you what you need to know because i took about 150+ hours of looking into, but how will that help you? there are other things you need to know as well. you want to turbo a b20, do you have any idea why people dont get over 350 or even 400 on a stock bottom with a b20?

if you need help outside of the turbo world, i can hook you up dawg!

woodenchef

I honestly want to stick with the b20 turbo setup. I do not think I want to go any higher than 250whp on stock b20b sleeves. This is going in a 91 Wagon that will be my DD. I also do not intend to beat the crap out of it!

Build I am aiming for so far.

b20b $ 500 shipped
Arp Head studs $100
RC 550cc $150 (I may not need to buy some depending which I have from the previous owners b16a turbo build.
Cometic 84mm Head Gasket $100
Walbro 255 Fuel pump $125
Hasport Axles $330

Parts I can keep from previous owners b16a build.
OBX Intake Manifold
AEM fuel rail

Transmission?
I really want a LSD tranmission or I may just go with a LS. I have heard the b16a tranmission is very bad for a b20 turbo build unless you switch the 5th gear with a ls 5th gear. I know I will be looking at around at least $1300.

Turbo Setup
http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/gostkit.html
I came across this site for a turbo kit decent prices with quality parts it looks like. What do you guys think. Gives three different turbo size options. I would have to choose a 2 1/2" downpipe size due to my exhaust is already that size.
Cost with shipping I am guessing around $2500 Unless I find a kit locally. Or I can buy a used turbo kit? Could be taking a risk with that though.

ECU
I am currently running the previous owners ecu that he had on his b16a turbo setup. Could I just have this retuned or should I be looking for a new ecu as well?

I anticipate this build to cost around $5000 just for my engine and turbo setup alone. I have my suspension set up pretty much planned out already. Again this will be my DD with occasional track use. In the future I plan to build the engine more to raise my whp goal. Maybe next winter This winter Ill suffice with a 250whp goal on stock sleeves!

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

That's a bunch of BS. Your search skills must be bunk. I can find Atlantis on Google.

Schister66

With the goals you have in mind, it all makes sense. I was originally against the B20 idea, but if your goals are 250whp give or take, thats safe enough and with the added displacement, it should be a torque monster. Which turbo are you planning to buy with the GoAutoworks kit? If i could offer a suggestion, go with the T3 Super 60 .63 ar.

I lol'd pretty hard at that...at work, no less.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

B20s weak link is the stock sleeves... they start to crack around 300hp or less depending on tune

4tika4

you dont need a cometic head gasket, oem works good, i have a felpro head gasket and it works just fine in my 250hp b20 turbo. you could use dsm injectors. they are only like 50 bucks. why not just use regular axles? my "ebay" stuff works great in my car

4tika4

no offense to you, but I think you need to do a little more research. How about taking a look at this b20 turbo thread. So many people say things about b20s that arent true. Just read through this thread, you'll learn a lot from the people that ACTUALLY have a turbocharged b20.


https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/turbocharged-supercharged-b20-thread-2026738/

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

^^
I was one of those people..

going high comp NA B20 now.

woodenchef

Was thinking that one because it is is the middle of my whp goal. Also it can allow for higher whp if I ever sleeve, and build my engine more. I have a question though why do you suggest the super t3 60 .63 over the custom t3/t04B .63.

Thanks, but have to ran it with the oem head gasket, and had no problems? Or do you just know my whp goal will be fine with the oem head gasket? I am asking because you just told you have a felpro which is not oem right? Also one of my axles are broken from the previous owner. So I might as well replace them. It costs nearly as much to buy new oem axles as it does to just get the entry level hasport axles. I have also read through that whole thread you linked me. I did find a lot of useful information, and I have been doing my research. It is truly hard to find any good useful information though about b20s... Most people are just repeating what has been heard or said(Even though they never personally built one!). I can probably find tons of quotes throughout that b20b thread with people having great results. I would like to really hear though from the ones who have not... They never tell you though if they revved to high. Had to much whp than it could handle... etc Just my sleeve cracked! b20s are bad do not turbo them...

I bet if people truly did there research and stayed within the b20s means. Not over revved, and payed more attention, B20s would have a lot more attention. Honestly people who like you bang gears and rev very high, plus beat on there cars should just stick with b16s,and b18s. Like everyone knows this engine is a low end tq monster. It came out of a CRV capable off roading abilities.

Reasons why b20s sleeves crack:

A. WHP is way to high for stock sleeves(Which is why I am staying in the safe zone)
B. Drove it like they have VTEC... and took it passed 8k on stock sleeves. which is honestly dumb. ( I plan to not go passed 7000)
C. Bad tunes
D. Have not done their research and learned from others mistakes.



This build has been done time and time again with great results, and great success. I plan to go for it... This will be my first turbo build ever, and I plan to enjoy it. Everyone who has had a b20b turbo said they loved it. If this build last the winter on stock sleeves. I defiantly will sleeve it and go for higher numbers!

I'll turn it into a build thread and let you all know how it goes on stock sleeves! Worst case scenario a sleeve DOES crack. I would of lost $500...

Schister66

I suggest that one because it is still capable of making the power you want, but it isn't overkill either. Since you're limited to 300whp or less (sensibly), run a small turbo at higher pressure levels and have a more usable powerband. That's not to say you couldn't run the T04b, but that's up to you. Each has its own characteristics and either one would be a good choice, but the Super60 would be my personal choice

Builda'Teg_92

I think your on the right path...Heres my thread going on right now, looks like we got the same ideas.https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/buildategs-first-attempt-forced-induction-3065370/

4tika4

It has been proven that oem honda headgaskets are very reliable at 250whp. many people use them for way more power than that. I mentioned that I had a felpro just to let you know that it works for me, and its cheap. You will be fine with oem, just get your head resurfaced. but if you want to go with cometic thats fine as well.

If the hasport axles are almost the same price, then you should go for them like you said. I apologize, I figured they would have been more.

On my b20, my rev limit is set at 7300, the rod bolts tend to stretch after that. I have had it set there for years "Naturally Aspirated". And this year I kept it the same with the turbo setup. I usually shift around 7100 anyways. I would say no more than 7300 and you will be very safe for the revs.

250ish hp and you will be fine with a good tune. thats about where i am at power wise, and all is well. With the ARPs of course

kyden

oem headgaskets are reliable at ANY power level.