Natural Aspirations

Its that time of year where I am thinking about my winter project and how and what I will improve for next year. I always do my best to KIS (Keep It Simple) but at times i tend to get distracted and go a little overboard.

My B20B has been around for a number of years and survived a few owners and a bit of abuse so Im looking to do a simple rebuild over the next few months. Its a JDM low compression B20B I got third hand from H-Motors. When I acquired the engine the previous owner had removed the head in thought of using it for a B20Vtec, so I felt this was a great opportunity to refresh the top end a bit. I had the valves re-cut and the head milled .030"




Coupled the engine with a S4C trans and had some fun. I then came by a set of Stage 1 CRANE cams on ebay for cheap so I slapped that together and decided to see how it would fare on the dyno.





A solid 150/135


Shortly after that the B20 got taken out and stored for a few years while I played with other engines. A few years ago I decided to dust it off and see how I could improve on it. With a better header, Crower 403's, valve springs and a ITR replica manifold I retuned and returned to the (different sadly) dyno.

164/134


About a year ago I was looking for more power and started looking at JRSC's but didn't feel that the M45 kit that fit the B20 would be sufficient for the 2L engine so I started looking at ways to improve on the kit or fit a larger M62 charger. I shopped around quite a bit and finally came across a B16 kit for fairly cheap. I had adapted B16 manifolds in the past to fit LS heads and while it isn't necessary pretty I knew it didn't take much to make it fit.


205/158@7PSI About the best I have seen on a non-vtec JRSC engine


So on to the plans this year....
I would like to pick up another 20-25hp. Looking to rebuild the bottom end with B20Z pistons and have ARP bolts installed in my stock rods. The bottom end doesn't use much oil but I have been pretty hard on it and think it would be a safe option to rebuild it.

Possibly pick up a P8R head, but everyone wants more than what I would like to spend on one. Maybe add a 404 cam on the exhaust side and see how it likes that, from what I have seen SC engines tend to favor a larger cam on the exhaust side.

I am currently running a B16 crank pulley and switching to an LS should net me an additional 2PSI for a total of about 9PSI. My fuel system is set up for E85 and I have a local station I just don't have enough experience with it yet and haven't gone that route yet.

I would rather not spend good money having LHT modify my hacked manifold and will probably try to piece together a simple aqua-mist/methanol system or buy one second hand.

I do not daily drive this car it is mainly used for autocross and something fun for me to play with. I have no interest in turbocharging it I thoroughly enjoy the JRSC for autocross and would just like to make it a little more efficient.



Any suggestions of comments would be great!

rev-speed

u can pick up a great load with crv pulley and meth injections

Natural Aspirations

I agree that a CRV pulley will spin the hell out of the supercharger but it is also going to create a lot of heat I am trying to avoid.

rev-speed

meth injection will cool it down alot......

ridikk

exhaust flow exhaust flow exhaust flow. start from the chamber and work outwards if u have the option. valves, ports, cams, cam timing(very critical), header, exhaust size. all sized as resonably large as u can.

K7-1Ktrevor

sick build. id love to see a nicely ported p8r on it.

Natural Aspirations

I'd like a p8r if I could find one cheap enough.


The only thing is that no one seems to be making any more power on them vs a STD p75 head

D-Rob

Good to see you here, Dan!

As far as E85 goes, don't be afraid of it. It's just like tuning anything else, except it (usually) requires more timing, and a bunch more fuel.

You'll probably pick up 15whp just from switching to E85 alone, honestly.

- Derek

Natural Aspirations

Thanks Derek I think this time around I'll be coming to you and John for the tuning.

Cast pistons and stock rods with ARP's?
Suggestions on a methanol injection kit?

D-Rob

I say just leave the stock rods at your power level.

As for alchy, look into "AIS", they have a pretty big following with the RSX guys.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Well 33mm valves is a huge increase in airflow through the head, but the combustion chambers in the head are 47cc vs 42cc, which lowers compression, especially on the b20b. If you ran higher compression pistons with valve reliefs for the 33mm valves then you would likely gain quite a bit from switching the heads.

Natural Aspirations

Thanks Derek the AIS looks great.

I have my tune file posted here if anyone is interested in looking at it.

http://forum.ectune.com/viewtopic.php?t=2903

Wish list:
P8R head
Crower 404 Exh cam
Stock Rods with ARP's
B20z pistons (NPR?) will net 10.5:1
AIS standard kit

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

725 injectors? are you actually making use of them that big with the m62?

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

i was gona say that 205 looked a tad bit on the low side given the parts, but then i see, your running 12.55 afr...any particular reason your running so lean under boost?

Natural Aspirations

Not at all, but they are the Injector Dynamics Bosch injectors. They are supposed to have a fantastic spray pattern and atomization properties, I got them in trade for a set of RC 310's.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

also, i cant open your ectune file cus i dont have the program but i was wondering if you could post up what your ignition maps look like, heres what im running on the b18b with the m45



and this is on 310cc injectors




i target 11.8 afr under boost, thats what gave me the most power and response, but thats strictly on the butt dyno.

Natural Aspirations

As far as I have seen I am the first to break 200hp on a non-vtec setup. For low boost and no intercooling or methanol I think my numbers are considerably good.


My timing maps are similar to yours, maybe a little less timing on top. I'm on my iPhone at the moment I'll try to post something later.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

i was bored last night and decided to play around with desktop dyno, i threw this around since this is the build that im doing in the spring, waiting on the block to get here next week, this is a b20z with SRP pistons, crane FI cams, P8R head fully ported with valve work, the eaton m45 blower fully ported. All of the numbers for the head airflow came from actual P8R flowbenching as well, keep in mind this is a simulator, and probably estimating crank horsepower at that. If you have some pictures of your ignition timing and fuel maps from your tune that would be great too, just curious as to what your running, also are you using E85 by chance?

Natural Aspirations

Have you used this software with stock engine parameters to see how close it is?

You can download ectune for free it just will not connect to any devices.

Yes I hope to try E85, but recently the price has shot up $0.11 beyond the price of 93 at my station so I may rethink that move.

I am surly convinced that you will be thoroughly disappointed unless your using an m62 blower. I don't think you can get anywhere near 300 cfm out of one but I may be wrong.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Well the 300cfm rating came directly from the charts provided for the supercharger itself. http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_m45data.htm

I dont know if you saw the JRSC thread but apparently Magnuson is releasing 6th gen superchargers in these sizes so i hope to maybe work with that in the near future if the price is right.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

oh and as far as stock parameters, i had did it on my b18b1 but the flow data for the head was incorrect, it was actually slightly under the factory hp but the numbers seemed to be on target at the right rpm's.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

couple more quick questions

what are your IAT's like?
did you take into account the IAT correction values for ignition timing retard?
are you measuring for knock at all?

AcuraIntegraLS-T

Switching to E85 would make a good chunk of difference for you. I am running the same injector you are and you have the injector to do it no problem, my setup is a b20vtec, with the lht after-cooler on e85. Comparing my setup to others around here, who do not have the LHT, i would say the lht and e85 are the main differences and mine is most defiantly making more power. I am running a b20 crank pulley, a stepper pulley and a 3.6 snout and I see just under 10psi on my logs. Sounds like you have a good list made up and you should see the results you are looking for especially if you are going e85.

fernando.

This is fantastic. I've always wanted to put a SC on my B20 but never found a solid thread like this to get info from. Subscribing as well.

Natural Aspirations

Stock B20Z dyno