q8delsol

when i ask alot of questions like: could i use darton sleeves on b20 block?
i got most answer said isnt impossible to do that but u should going to good shop or better find b18 block bla bla bla

well if its possible so there is a chance to do it right and i'm adventure lover so we start it in kuwait and i take some picture for this project its still not finish

here is the picture on b20 block this isnt my block we want to try on this block before start the real work on my block...























please we need all advising and opinion...

q8delsol

any replys....

slodel

good luck?

NJIN BUILDR

I don't believe Darton recommends sleeving a b20 with their stuff.I take it we are looking at the block drain hole.I don't see that causing a problem.The sleeves seal on the id of that bore and seat on the top of the "T".I think the problem with the sleeved b20 is cracking on he outside of the block and leaking water.

q8delsol

if u mean cracking while remove the sleeve actually we havnt seen this problem.
and the guy who working on this he said its will working 100% without any leaking.. and i believe on his job.

non-VTEC

i have and B20 with B18 darton MID sleeves.......they are leaking coolant into the oil.....

darton never said they wouldnt fit.......they just said they dont reccomend it because of this issue.

GE HD sleeved block going in soon

NJIN BUILDR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by q8delsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if u mean cracking while remove the sleeve actually we havnt seen this problem.
and the guy who working on this he said its will working 100% without any leaking.. and i believe on his job.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually it was after running the engine for some time.It may have been an isolated case.
So what is your question actually.It sounds like you have already sleeved the block and it's working fine.

wabaki

so where does the leak come from??

q8delsol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wabaki &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so where does the leak come from??</TD></TR></TABLE>

93supercoupe

I dont get why b20sleeves would cause any problemes in a LS.I thought b20s were bored b18's?Is there something im missing here?

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont get why b20sleeves would cause any problemes in a LS.I thought b20s were bored b18's?Is there something im missing here?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dimentionally they are the same, but B20's have 1 solid piece of metal that makes up the sleeves. You can see in #3 and #7 how part of the original sleeve 'webbing' is left after removing the sleeve. I'd bet that Honda's sleeve sealed as one peice, meaning if most of the original sleeve was removed, there is no glue/sealant between the remanant sleeve iron and the block's aluminum. With heat expansion, that could cause enough shifting to open the crack enough for water to move through.

This pic below also shows the final holes before sinking the sleeves. You can definately see remanants of the iron sleeve on either side of where the sleeves get closest together.



Hopefully it works for you, but given that B18's are not hard to find for $250 for a complete running longblock, let alone a bare core, and that B20's aren't legal swaps in many states, the B18 is just a more logical choice. Unless you have a CR-V

tony1

Do the MID sleeves not locate on the outer oem aluminum part? I thought they bored out the steel part and opened up the aluminum part to fit the new sleeve in, and the sleeve sealed to the alum. part with orings? Seems like there's no side support for the sleeve at all there. Surely that's not right?

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Its sliding down into the bottom section tony. the bottom portion of the MID is supposed to seal tightly along the bottom to ensure a proper seal and from what I can see his seems to be fine.

q8delsol

from the 'webbing' i guess this way will make the stock sleeves stronger cuase they like inside each other i know its bad way if a sleeve had crack then all the sleeves should change together i guess..

and about the down hole :


like what SD said the sleeves will sliding down inside the hole with the seal so the diff between the sleeves wouldnt be so closest as shown in the picture?

non-VTEC

I'm not sure where my sleeves are leaking from yet. but i did contact darton about a couple years ago about the issue. they said the most common area they have seen the MID/B20 leak is between cylinders 2 and 3. something about the way the stock B20 is cast most of them will leak around that area.

if you install them with some type or epoxy/sealer then you might be perfectly fine. if you simply hope the o-ring seals will hold up I'm not sure what will happen.

Darton is a member of HT. you should PM them and see if they can clear some of this up for you....they might be able to tell you from those pictures if it will be alright and what you can do to prevent any issues.

q8delsol

thanks for this note. i wouldnt use just the stock seal ill put something else too like the epoxy or some thing make them stronger..

ill pm Darton now. and i tolk with him before in diff threads and i hope he will reply in this thread too

wabaki

pls update us when you get answers

Steve D

I can answer your question about the B20 leaking since I am one of the patent holders of the MID sleeves and do many Darton MID installations.

That remaining iron original sleeve in the bottom bore is where the orings on the sleeves seal coolant from the crankcase. The iron does not machine out leaving a smooth surface for the orings. Usually you end up machining through the iron on one side leaving an irregular surface the sealing rings have no chance of sealing on. This leads to coolant leaks into the crankcase.

I have done a few for racing use only using Loctite 515 or 518 on the inside bore of the sealing area of the block along with the orings on the sleeves. This works reasonably well but I will not do this install on a street engine. In time they will all leak.

Steve

q8delsol

well thank u Steve i was wondering what to use for holding the sleeves into the bottom.
is there something better than Loctite 515 - 518 or another kind of holder?

im realy interseting to know what i should using please some advises...

boosted92

What you should be using is a B18 block. He just told you it doesn't matter what you use that it will eventually leak coolant into the oil.

q8delsol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What you should be using is a B18 block. He just told you it doesn't matter what you use that it will eventually leak coolant into the oil.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i meant what kind of epoxy - loctite - high temp silicone etc

non-VTEC

you could probably use some high quality epoxy and permanently seal them in there. kinda like how golden eagle does. only problem is they are not removable after.

you can try and ask GE what type of epoxy they use when sleeving their blocks. i don't think they will tell you or sell it to you but you can ask.

if you ask me it looks like JB weld only stronger.

Steve D

The two versions of Loctite I mentioned work the best of anything we tried in testing.

I have a pressure testing setup for the B series blocks. The B20 blocks I do for racing that leak I pressure seal using Moroso Ceramic Engine Sealer. This is done using a hot solution of the sealer poured into the water jacket area of the block then pressurizing to thirty pounds with compressed air. This usually works very well but there is no guaranty against leakage over time for street use.

Steve

HiProfile

Another suggestion would be devcon aluminum epoxy. The stuff I've used on my oil pump showed no problem signs when I had it apart after a few thousand miles.

IMO it would just be easier to go with a B18. Sorry

hpc.aeroe.

im going threw this aswell...i heard a couple places its a 50/50 if they work or not i guess depending on the machinist? the block was leaking into the crankcase from the seals aswell. but the motor was also overheated...supposedly the car ran good and made good power untill it overheated.(which i think could be because of the seals). my machinist knocked the sleeves out and said the block looked cut fine he can do new o-rings and try it out...has anyone found a good epoxy or is it a better idea to spend extra money and go with the b18 block...(this isnt for everyday driving...but for street use)