B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction?
03-07-2007, 12:13 PM
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B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction?
ACCORDING TO IMPORT BUILDERS...
When you have a street car, you need to pick the motor that is going to make your car the fastest in the quarter mile with street tires. With all factors being equal (drive, tires, car, etc) nothing is going to beat a 1.6-1.8 liter B16A in a car that weighs under about 2500 lbs. Huh? Yes, snap out of it, bigger is WORSE not better. Street tires here, remember? We want the highest horsepower, lowest torque motor we can get for the job. We want the motor with the best power band as HIGH as possible in the RPM. With a B16A, you have considerable less torque in the launch RPM’s as you do a GSR motor, LS/VTEC or any 2+ Liter motor. For example, at 10 PSI in our B16A turbo motor that was 1.74 liters, it made 322 WHP and 199 lbs of torque. In a stock GSR long block with the same turbo kit, it made the same WHP, 322, but with 214 lbs of torque. And at low boost, while the GSR was making 160 lbs of torque, the B16A was making 149 lbs. That’s HUGE. And that’s 1.74 liters VS a Stock GSR that’s at almost 1.8 liters. A B20/VTEC would have 15 lbs of torque more than THAT and would get lit up and left behind by both motors in the quarter mile with street tires. Let us look at this grid:
Comparison
B16A 1.74 liters
GSR 1.797 liters
B20 1.997 liters
Low boost torque
149 lbs
160 lbs
175 lbs
High boost torque
197 lbs
214 lbs
238 lbs
Which one will hook up the best; have the least amount of wheel spin and the best power band? Look at these charts… B16A flat out dominates. Undisputed. King. The thing is, nobody wants it. They all insist on building 2 liter turbo motors. And those motors are great in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear for sure, keeping up with bikes in some cases. But its going to get worked by any domestic V8 on any freeway onramp, and from any stop. Versus the B16A turbo I can actually launch very MEAN from a dead stop with less than 150 lbs of torque and when it hits 2nd gear, its going strong. I shift the GSR into second gear I get a big stripe on the floor, I shift the B20 into second gear and I hit the rev limiter from massive wheel spin (of course all of first gear was wheel spin too). Also, with a b16A motor you don’t get peak HP until very high in the RPM which is another advantage because you will be going a higher MPH when you hit the most power. AND you will have the least amount of torque! Versus a 2 liter where you will peak at about 7600 RPM or so, and have the most amount of torque. On that motor, you will have less MPH, more HP and more torque. Not a good combination. You want the tires to reach more MPH before more power touches the ground. It’s as simple as that. That’s why people buy longer gears for first gear, so they can get 10 more MPH out of first gear before they hit maximum power. This creates more traction. Ever wonder why all motor cars that weigh about the same just KILL turbo cars that have up to 300 horsepower more? Or even 50 HP more. Because the more horsepower, the less the car is going to hook, and the all motor car is GONE, with you catching up. Before you know it, you run out of track. And then you always hear the almost “guaranteed” excuse from the super high HP turbo guy. “I didn’t hook up, I was just spinning, and if I didn’t spin I would have killed you”. LOL that’s a laugh, when you hear that line just say “want to race again, double or nothing??” And kill him again, and again, and again. All day. What a joke! People actually expect their 400 wheel horsepower car to hook up and be neck and neck with all motor cars! And some cars I hear have 600 + WHP and want to race all motor cars for money. Can I borrow 10 grand to bet on the all motor car? No 600+ WHP cars or even 500+ WHP cars is going to hook for crap on the street without wheelie bars, and some HUGE slicks and $1000 dollar axles. On top of that, the more HP you have, the more skill and harder the car is to drive. So consistency is very, very difficult to achieve without the utmost practice and conditions. This is why the fast domestics go with power glide trannies. That is a 2 speed, automatic tranny. All they have to do is floor it and steer and they run fast, and consistent. If they had to shift gears 4 times like a Honda they would have a 20x harder time at it. Driving an all motor car that runs low 13’s compared to a turbo car that “can” run 11’s is like slow motion. I feel like I can sip a coke between shifts on the all motor car, while the turbo car is just: shift, bam, bam, bam, it’s over…very hard, or harder I should say.
how true is the lower the torque, the faster it is on the streets because of being able to "hook" on the ground?
When you have a street car, you need to pick the motor that is going to make your car the fastest in the quarter mile with street tires. With all factors being equal (drive, tires, car, etc) nothing is going to beat a 1.6-1.8 liter B16A in a car that weighs under about 2500 lbs. Huh? Yes, snap out of it, bigger is WORSE not better. Street tires here, remember? We want the highest horsepower, lowest torque motor we can get for the job. We want the motor with the best power band as HIGH as possible in the RPM. With a B16A, you have considerable less torque in the launch RPM’s as you do a GSR motor, LS/VTEC or any 2+ Liter motor. For example, at 10 PSI in our B16A turbo motor that was 1.74 liters, it made 322 WHP and 199 lbs of torque. In a stock GSR long block with the same turbo kit, it made the same WHP, 322, but with 214 lbs of torque. And at low boost, while the GSR was making 160 lbs of torque, the B16A was making 149 lbs. That’s HUGE. And that’s 1.74 liters VS a Stock GSR that’s at almost 1.8 liters. A B20/VTEC would have 15 lbs of torque more than THAT and would get lit up and left behind by both motors in the quarter mile with street tires. Let us look at this grid:
Comparison
B16A 1.74 liters
GSR 1.797 liters
B20 1.997 liters
Low boost torque
149 lbs
160 lbs
175 lbs
High boost torque
197 lbs
214 lbs
238 lbs
Which one will hook up the best; have the least amount of wheel spin and the best power band? Look at these charts… B16A flat out dominates. Undisputed. King. The thing is, nobody wants it. They all insist on building 2 liter turbo motors. And those motors are great in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear for sure, keeping up with bikes in some cases. But its going to get worked by any domestic V8 on any freeway onramp, and from any stop. Versus the B16A turbo I can actually launch very MEAN from a dead stop with less than 150 lbs of torque and when it hits 2nd gear, its going strong. I shift the GSR into second gear I get a big stripe on the floor, I shift the B20 into second gear and I hit the rev limiter from massive wheel spin (of course all of first gear was wheel spin too). Also, with a b16A motor you don’t get peak HP until very high in the RPM which is another advantage because you will be going a higher MPH when you hit the most power. AND you will have the least amount of torque! Versus a 2 liter where you will peak at about 7600 RPM or so, and have the most amount of torque. On that motor, you will have less MPH, more HP and more torque. Not a good combination. You want the tires to reach more MPH before more power touches the ground. It’s as simple as that. That’s why people buy longer gears for first gear, so they can get 10 more MPH out of first gear before they hit maximum power. This creates more traction. Ever wonder why all motor cars that weigh about the same just KILL turbo cars that have up to 300 horsepower more? Or even 50 HP more. Because the more horsepower, the less the car is going to hook, and the all motor car is GONE, with you catching up. Before you know it, you run out of track. And then you always hear the almost “guaranteed” excuse from the super high HP turbo guy. “I didn’t hook up, I was just spinning, and if I didn’t spin I would have killed you”. LOL that’s a laugh, when you hear that line just say “want to race again, double or nothing??” And kill him again, and again, and again. All day. What a joke! People actually expect their 400 wheel horsepower car to hook up and be neck and neck with all motor cars! And some cars I hear have 600 + WHP and want to race all motor cars for money. Can I borrow 10 grand to bet on the all motor car? No 600+ WHP cars or even 500+ WHP cars is going to hook for crap on the street without wheelie bars, and some HUGE slicks and $1000 dollar axles. On top of that, the more HP you have, the more skill and harder the car is to drive. So consistency is very, very difficult to achieve without the utmost practice and conditions. This is why the fast domestics go with power glide trannies. That is a 2 speed, automatic tranny. All they have to do is floor it and steer and they run fast, and consistent. If they had to shift gears 4 times like a Honda they would have a 20x harder time at it. Driving an all motor car that runs low 13’s compared to a turbo car that “can” run 11’s is like slow motion. I feel like I can sip a coke between shifts on the all motor car, while the turbo car is just: shift, bam, bam, bam, it’s over…very hard, or harder I should say.
how true is the lower the torque, the faster it is on the streets because of being able to "hook" on the ground?
03-07-2007, 12:21 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (CXtypeR)
Damn I can't believe the dumbest thread of 2007 already showed up 
....I wanted to wait at least till Summer
Throttle position owns you son
....I wanted to wait at least till SummerThrottle position owns you son
03-07-2007, 12:33 PM
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Man U FTW
well then it seems like the B20 is the best....except for the fact that the sleeves are thin and not many people use them not to mention you can make plenty of power on a stock GSR. This comparison is dumb and I agree w/ Adseguy....
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03-07-2007, 01:21 PM
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Re: (Schister66)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is vile and disgusting, yet i'm very aroused!</TD></TR></TABLE>
well thats just gross.
well thats just gross.
03-07-2007, 01:22 PM
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Man U FTW
Re: (ekslax)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekslax »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well thats just gross. </TD></TR></TABLE>
lmao....way to creatively edit my post....that probably makes better sense anyway....lol
well thats just gross.
</TD></TR></TABLE>lmao....way to creatively edit my post....that probably makes better sense anyway....lol
03-07-2007, 01:34 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (CXtypeR)
The original poster is a little off.
He assumes that all turbo people are going to go beyond their tire's ability to grip, and as a result should go to a smaller displacement to limit their torque. You know, because obviously, unless the person gets a smaller engine they are eventually just going to lose to an all motor guy.
I'm going to repost that on my non-honda car forums, so that they can get a good laugh. No wonder everyone hates people that own Hondas. We alienate ourselves by coming up with absurd, stupid things like this.
He assumes that all turbo people are going to go beyond their tire's ability to grip, and as a result should go to a smaller displacement to limit their torque. You know, because obviously, unless the person gets a smaller engine they are eventually just going to lose to an all motor guy.
I'm going to repost that on my non-honda car forums, so that they can get a good laugh. No wonder everyone hates people that own Hondas. We alienate ourselves by coming up with absurd, stupid things like this.
03-07-2007, 01:50 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (nateg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nateg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how does a b16 come out to 1.74 liters when they are 1595 cc????</TD></TR></TABLE>
stock stroke, bigger bore
stock stroke, bigger bore
03-07-2007, 03:49 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (g23_ej1)
So the article says use less power to avoid the need to control power to the ground...
Hey I got an idea! How about use more power combined with one of the many already figured out ways to control it...
Hey I got an idea! How about use more power combined with one of the many already figured out ways to control it...
03-07-2007, 04:59 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (CXtypeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CXtypeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
how true is the lower the torque, the faster it is on the streets because of being able to "hook" on the ground?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
although there are many variables to this argument....it does hold a large amount of merit. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where in certain situations this will very much be true.
how true is the lower the torque, the faster it is on the streets because of being able to "hook" on the ground?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
although there are many variables to this argument....it does hold a large amount of merit. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where in certain situations this will very much be true.
03-07-2007, 05:15 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (spectacle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spectacle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
although there are many variables to this argument....it does hold a large amount of merit. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where in certain situations this will very much be true.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
People that say this don't know how to drive....Please revist second post.
More "bigger" ladies
:
although there are many variables to this argument....it does hold a large amount of merit. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where in certain situations this will very much be true.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
People that say this don't know how to drive....Please revist second post.
More "bigger" ladies
:
03-07-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (adseguy)
****, if that article was correct, then a D15B should own dohc's at the track, and KILL them on the street. Flat-out destroy. End.
I have a feeling the author is just another internet-racer quoting numbers. I can get sohc's to break loose after boost because they start making enough HP, not because torque numbers go through the roof. Launch a 500whp b16a with slicks improperly, and you'll either spin like crazy or bog like mad. Do the same with a bigger motor, and you'll spin like crazy or bog for a few hundred rpm less.
I have a feeling the author is just another internet-racer quoting numbers. I can get sohc's to break loose after boost because they start making enough HP, not because torque numbers go through the roof. Launch a 500whp b16a with slicks improperly, and you'll either spin like crazy or bog like mad. Do the same with a bigger motor, and you'll spin like crazy or bog for a few hundred rpm less.
03-07-2007, 05:54 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (HiProfile)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">****, if that article was correct, then a D15B should own dohc's at the track, and KILL them on the street. Flat-out destroy. End.
I have a feeling the author is just another internet-racer quoting numbers. I can get sohc's to break loose after boost because they start making enough HP, not because torque numbers go through the roof. Launch a 500whp b16a with slicks improperly, and you'll either spin like crazy or bog like mad. Do the same with a bigger motor, and you'll spin like crazy or bog for a few hundred rpm less.</TD></TR></TABLE>
SHUT UP AND POST FAT GIRLS!
I have a feeling the author is just another internet-racer quoting numbers. I can get sohc's to break loose after boost because they start making enough HP, not because torque numbers go through the roof. Launch a 500whp b16a with slicks improperly, and you'll either spin like crazy or bog like mad. Do the same with a bigger motor, and you'll spin like crazy or bog for a few hundred rpm less.</TD></TR></TABLE>
SHUT UP AND POST FAT GIRLS!
03-07-2007, 07:02 PM
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Re: B16 turbo > B18 turbo > B20 turbo... fact or fiction? (adseguy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adseguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
SHUT UP AND POST FAT GIRLS! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Suzi called, she's waiting for ya Give chips, get sex.
SHUT UP AND POST FAT GIRLS!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Suzi called, she's waiting for ya
Give chips, get sex.