Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
03-29-2014, 06:04 AM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
First off, I have a 1999 Honda Accord EX Automatic with a JDM F23A in it. Trans is the one from the F23A1 and so is the ECU.
I have looked around at other F23 turbo builds but only found a few that were built with automatics. I have seen someone say to use a p28 ecu with an automatic tcu, and the obd2 to obd1 harness. This seems like the safest and surefire route to take, but I also saw someone mention an Apexi VAFC while staying with obd2. I read that the stock computer does not like it when you run more than 1 psi of boost, but the sensors can read up to 11 psi. I want to weigh all my options before I do anything because I am on somewhat of a budget and don't want to make any purchasing mistakes.
I found a thread call "The 6th Gen Accord Guide to Turbocharging!!" and the writer said he also has a stock auto trans that he used. He only mentioned using a p28 and a tuning software called NepTune that lets you tune an auto trans.
I guess my main question is will I need a separate tcu to go with the p28? Will any honda obd2 to obd1 harness work for my ecu to the p28? It is hard to find ones that say they are for a 99 accord, but I can't image they are too different from each other. Do I need a separate specific harness to hook up to the tcu? Which tcu should I get if the one for my trans and block are built into the ecu?
I have looked around at other F23 turbo builds but only found a few that were built with automatics. I have seen someone say to use a p28 ecu with an automatic tcu, and the obd2 to obd1 harness. This seems like the safest and surefire route to take, but I also saw someone mention an Apexi VAFC while staying with obd2. I read that the stock computer does not like it when you run more than 1 psi of boost, but the sensors can read up to 11 psi. I want to weigh all my options before I do anything because I am on somewhat of a budget and don't want to make any purchasing mistakes.
I found a thread call "The 6th Gen Accord Guide to Turbocharging!!" and the writer said he also has a stock auto trans that he used. He only mentioned using a p28 and a tuning software called NepTune that lets you tune an auto trans.
I guess my main question is will I need a separate tcu to go with the p28? Will any honda obd2 to obd1 harness work for my ecu to the p28? It is hard to find ones that say they are for a 99 accord, but I can't image they are too different from each other. Do I need a separate specific harness to hook up to the tcu? Which tcu should I get if the one for my trans and block are built into the ecu?
03-29-2014, 10:39 PM
#2
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
Honda autos don't hold up to any sizeable torque increase... you'll be lucky if you make it through tuning with a working trans, they start slipping between shifts under high torque loads and that glazes the clutch packs and one good slip kills it
the accords have a separate tcu and when it doesn't read the stock ecu it has a seizure (tried my aem ems on my 90 accord F22A1 and the tcu threw endless codes and wouldn't let the car start)
5spd swap is your only option for a reliable boosted Honda... you'll need an obd1 chipped ecu at least to tune, the vafc **** is well, ****.
you cannot use an OBD2 ecu
the accords have a separate tcu and when it doesn't read the stock ecu it has a seizure (tried my aem ems on my 90 accord F22A1 and the tcu threw endless codes and wouldn't let the car start)
5spd swap is your only option for a reliable boosted Honda... you'll need an obd1 chipped ecu at least to tune, the vafc **** is well, ****.
you cannot use an OBD2 ecu
03-30-2014, 07:33 AM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
Honda autos don't hold up to any sizeable torque increase... you'll be lucky if you make it through tuning with a working trans, they start slipping between shifts under high torque loads and that glazes the clutch packs and one good slip kills it
the accords have a separate tcu and when it doesn't read the stock ecu it has a seizure (tried my aem ems on my 90 accord F22A1 and the tcu threw endless codes and wouldn't let the car start)
5spd swap is your only option for a reliable boosted Honda... you'll need an obd1 chipped ecu at least to tune, the vafc **** is well, ****.
you cannot use an OBD2 ecu
the accords have a separate tcu and when it doesn't read the stock ecu it has a seizure (tried my aem ems on my 90 accord F22A1 and the tcu threw endless codes and wouldn't let the car start)
5spd swap is your only option for a reliable boosted Honda... you'll need an obd1 chipped ecu at least to tune, the vafc **** is well, ****.
you cannot use an OBD2 ecu
03-30-2014, 08:33 PM
#4
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
That's the issue I don't know about, if the tcu is external then an obd2-obd1 jumper will change the pinouts to and from the ecu (this was the issue with the aem ems, the pinouts changed on the auto harnesses so the ecu didn't receive input or output signals on the proper pins)so the tcu will no longer receive the input it needs and basically won't function
the engine and trans harness for the f series are all one piece, not separate harnesses. so the ecu and tcu each have their own plugs on a common harness. you would need a factory service manual in order to have the pinouts to know what to change or add. I was unable to find any pinouts online, at least for the cb7 chassis
also keep in mind the f series motors use a different transmission control method than d and b autos, so the auto p28 might not even work at all because the firmware on the p28 won't communicate with the transmission properly... you might be able to get a manual p28 and use the external tcu of you repin the jumper or add wires as needed.
this method means you won't be able to modify the transmissions operation (line pressure, shift points, shift time, shift firmness, etc)
there was a guy on here that built an auto b series transmission for his JRSC build. he had every internal component upgraded as well as a custom torque converter. I think he was using an external tcm as well next to a chipped manual p28, the manual p28 never looked for any trans sensors so it integrated flawlessly. but he was able to modify the operation of the transmission somehow. I'll try to remember his name and see if I can have him chime in here.
another option is to convert the hydro valvebody into a manual valvebody, so then a tcu wouldn't be needed because you are manually telling the trans to shift. I know people have done it with b series autos but I'm not sure about the f series
the engine and trans harness for the f series are all one piece, not separate harnesses. so the ecu and tcu each have their own plugs on a common harness. you would need a factory service manual in order to have the pinouts to know what to change or add. I was unable to find any pinouts online, at least for the cb7 chassis
also keep in mind the f series motors use a different transmission control method than d and b autos, so the auto p28 might not even work at all because the firmware on the p28 won't communicate with the transmission properly... you might be able to get a manual p28 and use the external tcu of you repin the jumper or add wires as needed.
this method means you won't be able to modify the transmissions operation (line pressure, shift points, shift time, shift firmness, etc)
there was a guy on here that built an auto b series transmission for his JRSC build. he had every internal component upgraded as well as a custom torque converter. I think he was using an external tcm as well next to a chipped manual p28, the manual p28 never looked for any trans sensors so it integrated flawlessly. but he was able to modify the operation of the transmission somehow. I'll try to remember his name and see if I can have him chime in here.
another option is to convert the hydro valvebody into a manual valvebody, so then a tcu wouldn't be needed because you are manually telling the trans to shift. I know people have done it with b series autos but I'm not sure about the f series
03-31-2014, 05:38 AM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
That's the issue I don't know about, if the tcu is external then an obd2-obd1 jumper will change the pinouts to and from the ecu (this was the issue with the aem ems, the pinouts changed on the auto harnesses so the ecu didn't receive input or output signals on the proper pins)so the tcu will no longer receive the input it needs and basically won't function
the engine and trans harness for the f series are all one piece, not separate harnesses. so the ecu and tcu each have their own plugs on a common harness. you would need a factory service manual in order to have the pinouts to know what to change or add. I was unable to find any pinouts online, at least for the cb7 chassis
also keep in mind the f series motors use a different transmission control method than d and b autos, so the auto p28 might not even work at all because the firmware on the p28 won't communicate with the transmission properly... you might be able to get a manual p28 and use the external tcu of you repin the jumper or add wires as needed.
this method means you won't be able to modify the transmissions operation (line pressure, shift points, shift time, shift firmness, etc)
there was a guy on here that built an auto b series transmission for his JRSC build. he had every internal component upgraded as well as a custom torque converter. I think he was using an external tcm as well next to a chipped manual p28, the manual p28 never looked for any trans sensors so it integrated flawlessly. but he was able to modify the operation of the transmission somehow. I'll try to remember his name and see if I can have him chime in here.
another option is to convert the hydro valvebody into a manual valvebody, so then a tcu wouldn't be needed because you are manually telling the trans to shift. I know people have done it with b series autos but I'm not sure about the f series
the engine and trans harness for the f series are all one piece, not separate harnesses. so the ecu and tcu each have their own plugs on a common harness. you would need a factory service manual in order to have the pinouts to know what to change or add. I was unable to find any pinouts online, at least for the cb7 chassis
also keep in mind the f series motors use a different transmission control method than d and b autos, so the auto p28 might not even work at all because the firmware on the p28 won't communicate with the transmission properly... you might be able to get a manual p28 and use the external tcu of you repin the jumper or add wires as needed.
this method means you won't be able to modify the transmissions operation (line pressure, shift points, shift time, shift firmness, etc)
there was a guy on here that built an auto b series transmission for his JRSC build. he had every internal component upgraded as well as a custom torque converter. I think he was using an external tcm as well next to a chipped manual p28, the manual p28 never looked for any trans sensors so it integrated flawlessly. but he was able to modify the operation of the transmission somehow. I'll try to remember his name and see if I can have him chime in here.
another option is to convert the hydro valvebody into a manual valvebody, so then a tcu wouldn't be needed because you are manually telling the trans to shift. I know people have done it with b series autos but I'm not sure about the f series
03-31-2014, 12:14 PM
#6
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
Yea I have to ask a friend about the auto b series guys username. I'm also curious as well because I want to try to get my aem ems working with the external tcu, I can at least get the turbo stuff on the car and roughly tuned at very low pressure until I can 5spd swap it.
another trick is when the transmission goes to shift let off the gas, this unloads the clutch packs and basically let's the transmission shift with minimal load. this will go a long way towards saving the clutch packs.
another trick is when the transmission goes to shift let off the gas, this unloads the clutch packs and basically let's the transmission shift with minimal load. this will go a long way towards saving the clutch packs.
03-31-2014, 12:43 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
Yea I have to ask a friend about the auto b series guys username. I'm also curious as well because I want to try to get my aem ems working with the external tcu, I can at least get the turbo stuff on the car and roughly tuned at very low pressure until I can 5spd swap it.
another trick is when the transmission goes to shift let off the gas, this unloads the clutch packs and basically let's the transmission shift with minimal load. this will go a long way towards saving the clutch packs.
another trick is when the transmission goes to shift let off the gas, this unloads the clutch packs and basically let's the transmission shift with minimal load. this will go a long way towards saving the clutch packs.
Trending Topics
03-31-2014, 07:22 PM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
Never buying a cobalt lol. I'm in the process of finding a manual trans for the car now, and the only part I have as far as forced induction goes is the turbo. So I will probably end up with the work of a manual swap before boost
03-31-2014, 09:04 PM
#10
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
I strongly suggest you sort out the ecu/tcu issue before boosting the car. you'll have more leeway with trying different transmission adjustments, less torque means less chance for damaging things.
not to mention an untuned boosted car will mean a hell of a time trying to integrate the transmission into the tune properly
not to mention an untuned boosted car will mean a hell of a time trying to integrate the transmission into the tune properly
04-07-2014, 04:11 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
I have just purchased a chipped manual p28 and an h22 trans so I am going 5 speed and possibly a built head before the turbo. I'll make a full post about the build once it is finished
04-07-2014, 05:59 PM
#12
R.I.P. Mark
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,377
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Re: Automatic F23A Turbo ECU Questions
Yea I have to ask a friend about the auto b series guys username. I'm also curious as well because I want to try to get my aem ems working with the external tcu, I can at least get the turbo stuff on the car and roughly tuned at very low pressure until I can 5spd swap it.
another trick is when the transmission goes to shift let off the gas, this unloads the clutch packs and basically let's the transmission shift with minimal load. this will go a long way towards saving the clutch packs.
another trick is when the transmission goes to shift let off the gas, this unloads the clutch packs and basically let's the transmission shift with minimal load. this will go a long way towards saving the clutch packs.
Spawne32
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/spawnes-supercharged-b20-sponsored-ddtech-3061149/
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
egturbolsvtec
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
5
06-14-2011 03:31 PM