Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A?
10-03-2004, 03:41 AM
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Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A?
Just wondering if anyone is familair with this turbo. It comes stock on Audi 1.8T and VW Golf 1.8T. Anyway, I got one in beautiful, like new condition; and I'm contemplating if I want to install it on my Civic. It's an 88 hatch w/ nearly bone stock B16A1, 2.5" exhaust and K&N filter.
Manifold fabrication is not an issue, although the flange is pretty weird looking.
Basically, I am looking for opinions on this turbo and just criticism or opinion in general on the potential set-up. It'll be intercooled with either a johnny racecar or starion unit, and tuned with an obd1 conversion and hondata w/450cc injectors.
-mike
Manifold fabrication is not an issue, although the flange is pretty weird looking.
Basically, I am looking for opinions on this turbo and just criticism or opinion in general on the potential set-up. It'll be intercooled with either a johnny racecar or starion unit, and tuned with an obd1 conversion and hondata w/450cc injectors.
-mike
10-03-2004, 04:57 AM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (Mike K)
I was told by a Porsche guy that KKK has the best turbo bearings in the industry because theyre made of brass. I dont know if its true or not but I do know Porsche uses KKK turbos on there cars so Id imagine the quality is great...
Thats all I really know about german turbos.
I know itll be fast spooling cuz its pretty small.
Thats all I really know about german turbos.
I know itll be fast spooling cuz its pretty small.
10-03-2004, 06:41 AM
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That turbo would most likely become a restriction; both the turbine and compressor side is tiny, but it would probably be very driveable. Remember, those turbos gives VW's 1.8T-engine it's torque peak around 2000 RPM, and over 4500 RPM it's really running out of steam. Just go with the norm, a T3/T4 that, when chosen right, will give the B16 a nice 3000-3500 RPM wide torque plateau up on top that will tear loose any streettire in 3rd gear.
10-03-2004, 08:15 AM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (PyroProblem)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was told by a Porsche guy that KKK has the best turbo bearings in the industry because theyre made of brass. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I was told by a Porsche guy that the OEM Porsche rims are the best in the industry because they are round!
hint: don't listen to Porsche guys, they are idiots.
I was told by a Porsche guy that the OEM Porsche rims are the best in the industry because they are round!
hint: don't listen to Porsche guys, they are idiots.
10-03-2004, 08:18 AM
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Re: (Oyvind Ryeng)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oyvind Ryeng »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Remember, those turbos gives VW's 1.8T-engine it's torque peak around 2000 RPM, and over 4500 RPM it's really running out of steam</TD></TR></TABLE>
While I agree that the Audi/VW 1.8T turbo is too small, I disagree with your statement. Why?
The VW 1.8T is the same engine/turbo combo, but they strangled it with a crap manifold to kill off power so the VW variant couldn't compete with the Audi unit. You're better off comparing the Audi 1.8T than the VW one...
While I agree that the Audi/VW 1.8T turbo is too small, I disagree with your statement. Why?
The VW 1.8T is the same engine/turbo combo, but they strangled it with a crap manifold to kill off power so the VW variant couldn't compete with the Audi unit. You're better off comparing the Audi 1.8T than the VW one...
10-03-2004, 08:52 AM
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The turbo would not make the car any faster. It would change the location of the tq curve to the lowend, and kill off the top end.
I have played with 1.8T jetta turbos. The concensus at the end of a week of wasteing my time was that they simply surge too soon to be useful on high reving high flow applications.
I have played with 1.8T jetta turbos. The concensus at the end of a week of wasteing my time was that they simply surge too soon to be useful on high reving high flow applications.
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10-03-2004, 09:07 AM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (nebulight)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nebulight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Those turbos are ultra turds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-03-2004, 10:03 AM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (nebulight)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nebulight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those turbos are ultra turds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They are not turds, they are very high quality turbos. They are also pretty small. If you put one on an engine that it is too small for and it performs like crap, it is because YOU chose the wrong turbo, not because it is poor quality. It is a perfectly fine turbo for many stock daily driven D15s and D16s, and certainly a much better choice than the ones picked by all these stunna wannabes who don't get boost until 6k rpm in their daily driver. For drag racing you would obviously want something bigger. No surprise there.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was told by a Porsche guy that KKK has the best turbo bearings in the industry because theyre made of brass.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Practically EVERY turbo's sleeve bearing is made out of brass. Let us know if you find one that isn't. I'm not hating, just pointing out the stupidity of Porsche Guy's statement and why you shouldn't ever listen to them.
They are not turds, they are very high quality turbos. They are also pretty small. If you put one on an engine that it is too small for and it performs like crap, it is because YOU chose the wrong turbo, not because it is poor quality. It is a perfectly fine turbo for many stock daily driven D15s and D16s, and certainly a much better choice than the ones picked by all these stunna wannabes who don't get boost until 6k rpm in their daily driver. For drag racing you would obviously want something bigger. No surprise there.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was told by a Porsche guy that KKK has the best turbo bearings in the industry because theyre made of brass.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Practically EVERY turbo's sleeve bearing is made out of brass. Let us know if you find one that isn't. I'm not hating, just pointing out the stupidity of Porsche Guy's statement and why you shouldn't ever listen to them.
10-03-2004, 11:16 AM
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I have heard more than once now about it being a high quality turbo. When i took one apart from an 01 passat, I found that the only quality casting was on the OUTSIDE of the houseings. The insides (only place that matters) was held to the casting finish and tolerance standards of a mopar block. The wheels design on exaust side has a shape not made to optimize performance, but rather minimize tooling cost per unit. The WG hinge points were also very crude and sloppy, this results in pre-mature seal area burn out for the wg. As far as judgeing the bearing cartridge, i never had any problems with it, but i didnt not dissasemble it far enough to view the design of its fluid bearing.
Overall, I was attracted to the use of this model of turbo due to price and outside apearence of quality. Upon disection, I was very dissapointed with the quality of the only places that matter on a turbo.
My $.02
Overall, I was attracted to the use of this model of turbo due to price and outside apearence of quality. Upon disection, I was very dissapointed with the quality of the only places that matter on a turbo.
My $.02
10-03-2004, 11:34 AM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (Mike K)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike K »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just wondering if anyone is familair with this turbo. It comes stock on Audi 1.8T and VW Golf 1.8T. Anyway, I got one in beautiful, like new condition; and I'm contemplating if I want to install it on my Civic. It's an 88 hatch w/ nearly bone stock B16A1, 2.5" exhaust and K&N filter.
Manifold fabrication is not an issue, although the flange is pretty weird looking.
Basically, I am looking for opinions on this turbo and just criticism or opinion in general on the potential set-up. It'll be intercooled with either a johnny racecar or starion unit, and tuned with an obd1 conversion and hondata w/450cc injectors.
-mike</TD></TR></TABLE>
I work for a vee dub dealer, and can tell you that those turbos are indeed ultra tiny, but like allready mentioned, I do not think it will work very well with your engine..Your car will probably feel turbocharged until 5000 rpms, and then feel n/a after that....Unless you dont have alot of $$$ and this is the only way for your car to be turboed, than give that pos turbo back to hitler!!!
Manifold fabrication is not an issue, although the flange is pretty weird looking.
Basically, I am looking for opinions on this turbo and just criticism or opinion in general on the potential set-up. It'll be intercooled with either a johnny racecar or starion unit, and tuned with an obd1 conversion and hondata w/450cc injectors.
-mike</TD></TR></TABLE>
I work for a vee dub dealer, and can tell you that those turbos are indeed ultra tiny, but like allready mentioned, I do not think it will work very well with your engine..Your car will probably feel turbocharged until 5000 rpms, and then feel n/a after that....Unless you dont have alot of $$$ and this is the only way for your car to be turboed, than give that pos turbo back to hitler!!!
10-03-2004, 02:24 PM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (99lspwr)
Here is a picture of a K03 turbine wheel next to a T31 (stage 3) T3 wheel:
Dinky!!
And to the comment about the porsche turbos, those are still made by KKK, but they are MUCH larger than the dinky little K03. They are K24/26/27/29 series that can flow around 700whp.
Here is a picture of my t3/t4 50 trim next to my K03:
And when I said turd, I meant for power. They actually do last pretty long. I usually never hear of a turbo working with in the K03 limits going bad. I mean you see one here and there, but it's rare. Bottom line.....
DON'T USE A K03
Dinky!!
And to the comment about the porsche turbos, those are still made by KKK, but they are MUCH larger than the dinky little K03. They are K24/26/27/29 series that can flow around 700whp.
Here is a picture of my t3/t4 50 trim next to my K03:
And when I said turd, I meant for power. They actually do last pretty long. I usually never hear of a turbo working with in the K03 limits going bad. I mean you see one here and there, but it's rare. Bottom line.....
DON'T USE A K03
10-03-2004, 05:21 PM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (nebulight)
wow, thats tiny!
I qouted the turd statment in regards to size also, I'm sure the quality is fine or they woulden't be making oem turbos for very long (which they have). I won't do anything smaller than a straight t3 on a d15 or d16 from now on. I learned my lesson with my own car a while ago.
I qouted the turd statment in regards to size also, I'm sure the quality is fine or they woulden't be making oem turbos for very long (which they have). I won't do anything smaller than a straight t3 on a d15 or d16 from now on. I learned my lesson with my own car a while ago.
10-03-2004, 06:40 PM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (nebulight)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nebulight »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is a picture of a K03 turbine wheel next to a T31 (stage 3) T3 wheel:
Dinky!!
And to the comment about the porsche turbos, those are still made by KKK, but they are MUCH larger than the dinky little K03. They are K24/26/27/29 series that can flow around 700whp.
Here is a picture of my t3/t4 50 trim next to my K03:
And when I said turd, I meant for power. They actually do last pretty long. I usually never hear of a turbo working with in the K03 limits going bad. I mean you see one here and there, but it's rare. Bottom line.....
DON'T USE A K03</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a KKK turbo but it looks A LOT bigger then the pics shown above..Haven't used it becase i'm thinking of going t3/t4..But my KKK turbo is not that small at all!!..
Dinky!!
And to the comment about the porsche turbos, those are still made by KKK, but they are MUCH larger than the dinky little K03. They are K24/26/27/29 series that can flow around 700whp.
Here is a picture of my t3/t4 50 trim next to my K03:
And when I said turd, I meant for power. They actually do last pretty long. I usually never hear of a turbo working with in the K03 limits going bad. I mean you see one here and there, but it's rare. Bottom line.....
DON'T USE A K03</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a KKK turbo but it looks A LOT bigger then the pics shown above..Haven't used it becase i'm thinking of going t3/t4..But my KKK turbo is not that small at all!!..
10-03-2004, 07:30 PM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (i want a civic)
I've read articles about how much of a restriction they become. Also, from personal experience, VW doesn't put turbos on their a4 and jetta or golf that push huge hp. They use turbos that make their 1.8 liter engines feel torquey low end for the business commuter who wants to "zip" around in traffic.
10-03-2004, 08:22 PM
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Re: Audi 1.8 KKK turbo on B16A? (i want a civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i want a civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have a KKK turbo but it looks A LOT bigger then the pics shown above..Haven't used it becase i'm thinking of going t3/t4..But my KKK turbo is not that small at all!!..</TD></TR></TABLE>
like I said, KKK makes TONS of different turbos. Chances are you have a K24 from an Audi 5000. Those float around A LOT.
I have a KKK turbo but it looks A LOT bigger then the pics shown above..Haven't used it becase i'm thinking of going t3/t4..But my KKK turbo is not that small at all!!..</TD></TR></TABLE>
like I said, KKK makes TONS of different turbos. Chances are you have a K24 from an Audi 5000. Those float around A LOT.
10-04-2004, 11:40 AM
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Oh, some of the VAG 1.8Ts use the KKK K04 turbo, wich is slightly larger. This includes among others the Audi TT /w 225 HP, and most of the 1.8T-engines that are "pushing" close to 200 BHP stock.
10-04-2004, 05:01 PM
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Re: (Hayasa15)
I happen to have an '86 porsche 944 turbo (2.5L SOHC inline 4), which as far as I know has a k26 turbo. I haven't really done much work on this car and can't tell you too much about the turbo but I can tell you a little about it's boosting characteristics on my car. It gets up to about 11psi by 3500rpm in the factory trim but many people have increased boost on their using chips and a few other modifications. The problem people run into with the k26 is that it doesn't seem to be able to hold 15psi to redline (6500 rpm), it seems to fall off to about 14psi. I'm sure these affects would be more exagerated at higher boost levels. k26's seem to be good for not quite 300whp on the 944. Most people want power upgrade the turbo. Not sure if that helps...
10-04-2004, 05:41 PM
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Re: (nate951)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nate951 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I happen to have an '86 porsche 944 turbo (2.5L SOHC inline 4), which as far as I know has a k26 turbo. I haven't really done much work on this car and can't tell you too much about the turbo but I can tell you a little about it's boosting characteristics on my car. It gets up to about 11psi by 3500rpm in the factory trim but many people have increased boost on their using chips and a few other modifications. The problem people run into with the k26 is that it doesn't seem to be able to hold 15psi to redline (6500 rpm), it seems to fall off to about 14psi. I'm sure these affects would be more exagerated at higher boost levels. k26's seem to be good for not quite 300whp on the 944. Most people want power upgrade the turbo. Not sure if that helps...</TD></TR></TABLE>
well, also remeber this is on a 2.5l, on a 1.6 i think that this turbo would due pretty well, given the boost characteristics you have described
well, also remeber this is on a 2.5l, on a 1.6 i think that this turbo would due pretty well, given the boost characteristics you have described
10-04-2004, 06:59 PM
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Re: (wantboost)
i think i am gonna use it. i mean, why not?
it's a fairly stock b16a and even if the power dies off at a lower rpm, it will give me WAY more torque in the area where you need it on a daily basis(below 5000rpm).
also, if it runs out of steam past 5k on a 1.8 liter, it will do better on my 1.6, because my motor will not flow the same cfm out the exhaust as a 1.8 at the same rpm. the turbo is off a newer 1.8 audi, i think a 2000 or newer. it's in PERFECT shape.
anyway, me and my buddy are gonna fab a mani for it. i'll keep you guys posted.
it's a fairly stock b16a and even if the power dies off at a lower rpm, it will give me WAY more torque in the area where you need it on a daily basis(below 5000rpm).
also, if it runs out of steam past 5k on a 1.8 liter, it will do better on my 1.6, because my motor will not flow the same cfm out the exhaust as a 1.8 at the same rpm. the turbo is off a newer 1.8 audi, i think a 2000 or newer. it's in PERFECT shape.
anyway, me and my buddy are gonna fab a mani for it. i'll keep you guys posted.
10-04-2004, 07:12 PM
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Re: (Mike K)
correct me if I'm wrong, but arent the 1.8t's designed to depend on the turbo at lower rpms for power, and then depend on the flow of the head at high rpms?
10-06-2004, 04:03 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmal1919 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">correct me if I'm wrong, but arent the 1.8t's designed to depend on the turbo at lower rpms for power, and then depend on the flow of the head at high rpms?</TD></TR></TABLE>
But the airmass feeded trough the head _has_ to come from the turbo. If the turbo is a restriction, how will that allow the head to flow enough on higher RPM's?
But the airmass feeded trough the head _has_ to come from the turbo. If the turbo is a restriction, how will that allow the head to flow enough on higher RPM's?
