Apology to HPC (Full-Race header ceramic coating incident) (lots of pics)
09-10-2007, 05:56 PM
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Apology to HPC (Full-Race header ceramic coating incident) (lots of pics)
Over the last year and a half I have ripped on HPC and called them about just every name in the book. It all started here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1591148
In short, I got a ceramic coating on my header, downpipe and exhaust housing. Apparently there was confusion by a ex-employee from Full-Race and instead of an HPC Extreme coating that was requested, the goods were sent to a "Garrett Distributor" for their version of ceramic coatings.
Round 1:
Looks real nice. But after a 180 mile drive back to my house, I notice this:
Seemed kinda strange, but I did a HT post and everyone said it was normal for ceramic coating to surface crack as they 'bake-in'.
But them after my first track weekend with less then 500 miles on the header:
And it just got worse from there:
And even the turbo housing started to rust though:
Turbo housing before before:
After before:
Second round (Part one):
Finally could take it anymore. My hood was cracking and turning black. The heat under the hood was just stupid. So I contact F/R again to get a warranty recoat (I still thought this was an HPC coating at the time). The ex-employee stated that HPC was no longer going to honor their warranty for F/R manifolds. (This was not true as I have found out)
I stated I was not going to pay $300+ again for another coating and I have bad mouthed HPC every chance I got.
Second round (Part two):
I got to a point where I decided to pay $300+ to get another coating. I called Geoff & Henry at F/R and got the whole story. My goods were never sent to HPC in the first place!
Now this is another screwy part. I sent all my stuff back to get recoated. F/R sent everything back to...a "Garrett Distributor"...
Yes, back to a "Garrett Distributor" to get a recoat of the same coating that didn't last the first time.
Now I did not speak to this "Garrett Distributor" directly, so this is all second hand. But this "Garrett Distributor" said they have never seem anything like what happened to my manifold and housing before. They wanted to accuse me of acid dipping my turbine housing. I guess Henry negotiated a deal and it all was recoated.
I wasn't too happy with the fact the coating chipped and scratched off just during the install! This is the coating with 0 miles on it:
And after the first track weekend.......cracks and chips (less then 300 miles)
So everything was sent back for a third time.
At this time I would like to thank Geoff and Henry and the rest of the Full-Race team for stepping up and treating this matter in a professional and responsible manner.
Everything was sent to the real HPC for their 1600 deg coating.
There was some other issues and it actully had to be sent back to them for a second (my fourth) coating, but that's another story.
Final product:
This coating has not been track tested yet, but it did make it 200 highway miles. My first event will be the GT Live Redline Time Attack at VIR. So three days on full course should be a good test for it all. Will post results and comments on heat dissipation.
Final thoughts, I do feel bad for the number of times I have cursed HPC. So if their coating does hold up, I will be writing them a formal letter of apology for the nasty things I have said about them. I will do my best to hunt down the post I have commented in and refresh my opinion.
I am not going to go about and start bashing this "Garrett Distributor" for their coating. Because, I don't know the actual name of the shop and I have not dealt with them directly. So I will not curse their name (too loudly).
All in all, two thumbs up to Full-Race. They could have easily said 'sorry can't help' a number of times, but they stuck in there and got the problem resolved. We'll see what happens when this one starts cracking....
Update: 10-07 Redline Time Attack VIR.
First track weekend. Things didn't go well:
~ 20 track miles
End of event:
Will contact F/R and see what happens. Will update again.
Update 2/08
Got the good back from HPC a few days ago:
HPC 2000 deg coating
http://www.smallmountain.us/im....html
10/2008
Epic Fail!!!
I give up.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1591148
In short, I got a ceramic coating on my header, downpipe and exhaust housing. Apparently there was confusion by a ex-employee from Full-Race and instead of an HPC Extreme coating that was requested, the goods were sent to a "Garrett Distributor" for their version of ceramic coatings.
Round 1:
Looks real nice. But after a 180 mile drive back to my house, I notice this:
Seemed kinda strange, but I did a HT post and everyone said it was normal for ceramic coating to surface crack as they 'bake-in'.
But them after my first track weekend with less then 500 miles on the header:
And it just got worse from there:
And even the turbo housing started to rust though:
Turbo housing before before:
After before:
Second round (Part one):
Finally could take it anymore. My hood was cracking and turning black. The heat under the hood was just stupid. So I contact F/R again to get a warranty recoat (I still thought this was an HPC coating at the time). The ex-employee stated that HPC was no longer going to honor their warranty for F/R manifolds. (This was not true as I have found out)
I stated I was not going to pay $300+ again for another coating and I have bad mouthed HPC every chance I got.
Second round (Part two):
I got to a point where I decided to pay $300+ to get another coating. I called Geoff & Henry at F/R and got the whole story. My goods were never sent to HPC in the first place!
Now this is another screwy part. I sent all my stuff back to get recoated. F/R sent everything back to...a "Garrett Distributor"...
Yes, back to a "Garrett Distributor" to get a recoat of the same coating that didn't last the first time.
Now I did not speak to this "Garrett Distributor" directly, so this is all second hand. But this "Garrett Distributor" said they have never seem anything like what happened to my manifold and housing before. They wanted to accuse me of acid dipping my turbine housing. I guess Henry negotiated a deal and it all was recoated.
I wasn't too happy with the fact the coating chipped and scratched off just during the install! This is the coating with 0 miles on it:
And after the first track weekend.......cracks and chips (less then 300 miles)
So everything was sent back for a third time.
At this time I would like to thank Geoff and Henry and the rest of the Full-Race team for stepping up and treating this matter in a professional and responsible manner.
Everything was sent to the real HPC for their 1600 deg coating.
There was some other issues and it actully had to be sent back to them for a second (my fourth) coating, but that's another story.
Final product:
This coating has not been track tested yet, but it did make it 200 highway miles. My first event will be the GT Live Redline Time Attack at VIR. So three days on full course should be a good test for it all. Will post results and comments on heat dissipation.
Final thoughts, I do feel bad for the number of times I have cursed HPC. So if their coating does hold up, I will be writing them a formal letter of apology for the nasty things I have said about them. I will do my best to hunt down the post I have commented in and refresh my opinion.
I am not going to go about and start bashing this "Garrett Distributor" for their coating. Because, I don't know the actual name of the shop and I have not dealt with them directly. So I will not curse their name (too loudly).
All in all, two thumbs up to Full-Race. They could have easily said 'sorry can't help' a number of times, but they stuck in there and got the problem resolved. We'll see what happens when this one starts cracking....
Update: 10-07 Redline Time Attack VIR.
First track weekend. Things didn't go well:
~ 20 track miles
End of event:
Will contact F/R and see what happens. Will update again.
Update 2/08
Got the good back from HPC a few days ago:
HPC 2000 deg coating
http://www.smallmountain.us/im....html
10/2008
Epic Fail!!!
I give up.
Last edited by mrlegoman; 06-22-2011 at 04:51 AM.
09-10-2007, 06:04 PM
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full-race ramhorn
Well, i don't mean to high jack ur thread, but here's samle of mines done almost a year ago....the only thing was a slight color change due to temps above 2500 degree f..........
Great to hear u got the issue resolve for now......g/L during the testing!!
Underhood temps are still very hot, but protects great against water and future rust!
09-11-2007, 05:27 AM
#6
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Re: full-race ramhorn (tepid1)
These are the only pictures I can come up with at work. The first picture is after full-race had HPC coat my manifold when it was new. The second was after dynoing it at stage6 and having about 2-3000 miles from a previous setup. Still doing good with no chipping or cracking. The most you can see is maybe some hairline scratchs but that could have easily been from my mechanic.
09-12-2007, 04:10 AM
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Re: full-race ramhorn (sp00led)
Update: I have made a correction.
The original coating was performed by a "Garrett Distributor", not Garrett directly.
The original coating was performed by a "Garrett Distributor", not Garrett directly.
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09-12-2007, 06:45 AM
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Re: full-race ramhorn (mighty137)
how much is it for the coating on a manifold like a full-race topmount
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mighty137 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, i don't mean to high jack ur thread, but here's samle of mines done almost a year ago....the only thing was a slight color change due to temps above 2500 degree f..........
Great to hear u got the issue resolve for now......g/L during the testing!!
Underhood temps are still very hot, but protects great against water and future rust! </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mighty137 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, i don't mean to high jack ur thread, but here's samle of mines done almost a year ago....the only thing was a slight color change due to temps above 2500 degree f..........
Great to hear u got the issue resolve for now......g/L during the testing!!
Underhood temps are still very hot, but protects great against water and future rust!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
09-12-2007, 08:07 AM
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Re: Apology to HPC (mrlegoman)
Seriously looks like you got some sort of powder coating which is baked on at 400 degrees for 10 mins. This pic kinda looks like the hammer style powder coating, it just looks like it though. Powder coating would not last at all. Glad you got it fixed!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
</TD></TR></TABLE>
09-12-2007, 08:07 AM
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Re: Apology to HPC (mrlegoman)
You won’t be disappointed with the HPC product. I have everything from my Top Mount to my alternator brackets coated by them. Just be carefully with the black, as it will still scratch unlike their silver coating. You shouldn’t have any future problems with it chipping or cracking now that it is done right. Hats off to HPC!
09-12-2007, 09:27 AM
#12
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Re: (alexsracing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alexsracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much is the coating?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Shodan's coatings are generally around 120 for a ramhorn manifold. I have never had a problem with mine, ever.
The Shodan's coatings are generally around 120 for a ramhorn manifold. I have never had a problem with mine, ever.
09-12-2007, 04:06 PM
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Re: Apology to HPC (AZSTATEPOLICE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AZSTATEPOLICE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You won’t be disappointed with the HPC product. I have everything from my Top Mount to my alternator brackets coated by them. Just be carefully with the black, as it will still scratch unlike their silver coating. You shouldn’t have any future problems with it chipping or cracking now that it is done right. Hats off to HPC! </TD></TR></TABLE>Keeping my fingers crossed!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Keeping my fingers crossed!
09-12-2007, 08:17 PM
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I spent close to $600 on my header, downpipe and the compressor and related piping with HPC. I got the high temp black coating. All of it chipped and flaked off. Looks like *** on my 321 ss parts. Got it all stripped and going with polydyn coatings. Do not recommend HPC at all. Not to mention ridiculous wait times.
09-14-2007, 12:24 AM
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Re: (mrlegoman)
Sometimes I am really happy that I have a local shop that does great ceramic coating (GPengineering.ca)... I never had any problems with tons of stuff that were coated, and we are talking about going through winter salts as well here in Canada...lol
Hope all goes well for you with the new HPC coating
Hope all goes well for you with the new HPC coating
10-07-2007, 03:44 PM
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Re: (ghostofnyc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ghostofnyc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">shodan is the man</TD></TR></TABLE>
He does awesome work!
He does awesome work!
10-07-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: (Boosted B6teen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boosted B6teen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOW. Glad I saw this thread. I was planing to send my manifold to HPC 
</TD></TR></TABLE>Like I said before, I'm not going to point fingers at HPC just yet. Everyone who has seen my manifold coating crack have claimed they've never seen anything like it. Other Full-Race manifolds have had no problems what-so-ever. But I'm only one of the few who is actually road racing and exposing the manifold to high temps for extended periods of time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Like I said before, I'm not going to point fingers at HPC just yet. Everyone who has seen my manifold coating crack have claimed they've never seen anything like it. Other Full-Race manifolds have had no problems what-so-ever. But I'm only one of the few who is actually road racing and exposing the manifold to high temps for extended periods of time.
10-07-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: (crazyitr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said before, I'm not going to point fingers at HPC just yet. Everyone who has seen my manifold coating crack have claimed they've never seen anything like it. Other Full-Race manifolds have had no problems what-so-ever. But I'm only one of the few who is actually road racing and exposing the manifold to high temps for extended periods of time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your not the only one on here. This guy posted in this thread that his HPC coatings also came off.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crazyitr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I spent close to $600 on my header, downpipe and the compressor and related piping with HPC. I got the high temp black coating. All of it chipped and flaked off. Looks like *** on my 321 ss parts. Got it all stripped and going with polydyn coatings. Do not recommend HPC at all. Not to mention ridiculous wait times. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Your not the only one on here. This guy posted in this thread that his HPC coatings also came off.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crazyitr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I spent close to $600 on my header, downpipe and the compressor and related piping with HPC. I got the high temp black coating. All of it chipped and flaked off. Looks like *** on my 321 ss parts. Got it all stripped and going with polydyn coatings. Do not recommend HPC at all. Not to mention ridiculous wait times. </TD></TR></TABLE>
10-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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Re: (ls1_datsun)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ls1_datsun »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Your manifold has been coated so many times your gonna need someone to make sure its prepped good.</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed
Is that the old silver coating underneath the black flaked off coating?
agreed
Is that the old silver coating underneath the black flaked off coating?
