drummerdude

thinking about an efr turbo for my future setup, curious abou others setups and dyno numbers with these turbos.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You'll be waiting about a 1.5 years before you get one. Even the ones I had, I waited 7 months to get them, then they were gone.

But here is a 7670 (similar to a GTX3076R, with a slightly larger exhaust wheel) on a project in Michigan for is S2000. ITs a VERY nice unit, but I think the twin scroll was a little much. (Yes, I actually said twin scroll because it actually is one. )

Here's a few pics of the 7670EFR.





THIS is a true twin scroll turbine housing. Not that a divided housing.


Compressor cover removed







Turbine housing and wheel compared to 80mm S366 T4 divided housing - Exhaust wheel on 7670 is about 74mm, while the S366 is 80mm diameter

drummerdude

I am not sure why, the way I figure it, if you take the money you'd spend an a good bov and wastegate and subtract it from the turbo, you'll pay less than $1000 for one of these.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No. Not at all. Not for the materials that they use for those compressor wheels and turbine housings. They use a stainless steel turbine housing and a titanium alloy turbine shaft. Get that pricing out of your head right now..

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

When I saw them at sema 2010 they where scheduled for an early 2011 release.. they were released but they had issues so they postponed l.. I only saw a few for public purchase. The only people I know using them right now are sierra sierra and full race.

These turbos start around 1300-1400 for the small units and go up from there quickly iirc. The only thing I forgot to talk to the bw guys about was rebuildability Ans cost.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Cost was about $1800 depending upon whether or not you were using their solenoid, internal gate and/or BOV ($1800 on the high end, $1500 on the lower end). Rebuildability was pretty much non-existant due to the exotic materials used and lack of availability. Its so stout, they were pretty sure they never would be unless the user caused it. At $1800, trust me, you won't make any mistakes.

OneBadTurboCRV

Why not? $1,800 isn't that bad... I spend that kind of money just to "try something new out". People must realize, you have to pay to play. With those types of upgrades, one would assUme it's worth it.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

For 250-300whp, and using some SPA Topmount.. Nah.. but I've had people do it for specific purpose vehicles. So I can agree with you on that point.

OneBadTurboCRV

That is what I was getting at by saying "pay to play". Purpose built is almost never cheap when done right. I wouldn't call slapping a bunch of random parts together purpose built either. Most setups are just that, slapped together without any true knowledge or research on the matter and cost is the biggest concern. Oh well, maybe I just get WAY too caught up in the whole "purpose built" ideology. Sorry to interrupt your thread, hehe.

drummerdude

the efr's I have been looking at were all around $1400, but when you figure you'll spend $250+ for a good wastegate with a different turbo and another $200+ for a bov, thats like paying $950 for the turbo (given it comes with a good wastegate and bov. for the setup I am thinking of running, it my be overkill, but I figured if I am going to spend $1400 for a garrett/wastegate/bov, why not go efr. the manifold I was considering running seems like it might not be the best choice, I think I'll take shodan's advice and go with a log.

a gt2860, internally gated is $1200 + $250 bov puts me at $1450 right around the same as the efr, thats where I was coming from

drummerdude

other than rebuildability (I think that's a word), what are the drawbacks to the efr?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Per BW techs at sema. While the turbine wheel is very light at low exhaust temperatures the material the turbine wheel and shaft are made out of is.incredibly brittle until it warms up so they said its more vulnerable to fod. The milled wheel allows for higher pressure ratios and shaft speeds bit the turbine wheel is very thin at the hub of the wheel where the blades meet the hub.
Stephen Papadakis is the engine builder for.scion racing with formulad. And he uses efr's exclusively on Frederick Aasbo's scion TC.. I.do know that he has been on the same efr for the last two season without an issues. All they did was swap turbine housings this season for a different powerband.



Geoff at full race also uses them exclusively on most of the shop cars. His R14 awd rb26 powered s14 uses a single efr and its one of the fastest time attack cars in the series. He was the fastest car at one event running on only 5 cylinders. He also partnered with sierra sierra to run an efr on their time attack evolution and they haven'had any.issues either.

drummerdude

so... does this mean it'd be a good choice or a bad choice for a daily driver?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Finding one....

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

^this
I haven't really seen any available for public consumption in two years. The reason race teams like Sierra Sierra and shops like Full-Race got them is for R&D and real world testing. Geoff worked very closely (and secretly) with borgwarner to develop the EFR for the aftermarket... They specifically listened to the aftermarket crowd and developed this turbo around that feedback. Full Race then took prototype units and ran them on multiple platforms and engines all at varying boost and power levels, different manifold designs and wastegate/intercooler configurations. Plus they also tested different turbine wheels and housings at the same time,

I'm not sure why they are not available now... I've heard everything from failure issues, to supply issues for things like the turbine wheels and housings.

D-Rob

I have tuned two cars in the last year with EFR's.

They were K20's; one with the twin-scroll 8374 (which is phenomenal in my opinion), and the other was a 7670, open, T3. Both were internally-gated.

The EFR8374 car did really well, but the necessity to keep changing out the actuators was a PITA for all boost levels. I could only get 25psi out of the one actuator, and they both still had the same peak-and-fall internal gate boost curve that is annoying and seemingly impossible to level off at high-RPM when the solenoid is already working hard.



Made boost fast, in my book.

LightningTeg

For a honda, that is an awesome powerband to make 650!

92TypeR

Derek - Did you get a chance to drive (or ride in) the car with the twin-scroll EFR8374?

If you were on the wait list from 2011, you would have your turbo today, except for the EFR9180. One batch of the smaller frame EFR's had issues with the exhaust wheel, a supplier was using an incorrect material (or something along those lines). Those turbos were recalled and only a few made it onto customer vehicles. The larger twin-scroll exhaust housings were delayed for a supplier change, from what has been revealed the original supplier for the stainless investment castings closed shop.

EFR7670's and EFR8374's are around. Everyone I know that has ordered one, has received it.

From what Geoff has been saying over on evom.net, EFR9180's are still on track for 2012 release but the IRL teams are getting theirs first. All IRL teams are using BW EFR turbos, and they are much higher on the priority list for BW than consumers.

Schister66

These are a hit with the Subaru crowd, but as TheShodan said, they are hard to find. Are they going to become easier to buy in the future? I'd love a stock replacement turbo with an integrated WG, bov and EBC.

drummerdude

treadstone on ebay says they have 10, 1 sold of the 6758

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Borg-Warner-...5f6d69&vxp=mtr

edit: never mind, later in the listing it says to contact for availability, and they are currently "out of stock", that's bu"shi+. remove the listing if they aren't available, don't put there are 10 available.

drummerdude

why is there no availability?

how long are wait times for availability?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Again, IRL may get a few, but otherwise, you're looking at over a year to get one... that's pre-paid for your order

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I've heard some bitching about the fact that the Honda irl team has swapped to a single efr with a non sanctioned turbine housing

92TypeR

Have you called any vendors? Have you confirmed there aren't any available? Call Geoff at Full Race and see what he can get and when he can get it. Not saying other vendors aren't capable of getting any, but he has been the most communicative of all the BW vendors on the interwebs.

As I stated earlier, everyone I know who has ordered one has received it, except for the EFR9180.

The GM engines have been using twin EFR's (not sure what the equivalent EFR size would be) for the entire 2012 season, and Honda engines have been running a single EFR (basically a 9180) all season. There was a compressor cover revision from BW that was only released for the larger frame turbocharger, and thus only affected Honda's system. GM protested that it would give Honda an advantage and was in violation of some rules, but since it was a design change flowed down through BW and not initiated by Honda, the IZOD committee sided with BW and allowed them to release the new cover.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That will be interesting.. But let him try, I suppose.