Notices

Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Neptune Info Inside!!!)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-06-2005, 04:23 PM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Bulldogg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Neptune Info Inside!!!)

Hello ladies and gentleman. It's your favorite B16 builder here with an exciting update on the car. After the Import Faceoff in San Antonio was cancelled on Saturday, I made the trip from San Antonio, TX to Houston, TX to kick it with my friends Flamenco-T, St00pid, and Chamois. St00pid and I were going to take a look over the car and make a few minor changes to it and last night we decided that we were going to give Neptune a try on the car. After a night of fun, we got up this morning and started tinkering with the car.

Let me say that the features on this tuning system are unbelievable. To be honest, I have read some of the features on Neptunes website and had no idea what this system could do until I was able to experience hands on. The versatility on the system is in incredibale. One feature that Jason (St00pid) and I were not fully aware of was the Launch Control Feature. This feature should be best desribed as a Two-Step Option without having to have a MSD Two-Step System. The car is equipped with a MSD Blaster 2 Coil and MSD 6A. Right now we have it set to 5500 RPM and 26mph, and let me just say that the car launches HARD off the line on street tires! We still have some tinkering to do with this right now, but from what we have done it is just amazing!

This system is nothing, but the next wave of tuning for Honda's! JR (HRTuning) you did an incredible job on this software and I will keep everyone updated on what happens with the car! As of right now, we are going to be heading to the dyno tomorrow morning with the car and get a solid pump gas tune done. I'll post the update tomorrow night with pics when I get back to Dallas.

I would like to take a quick second to give a big thanks to the following people:
-Anthony (AVATAR) for getting me into the import scene 3 years ago, and helping me getting a basic feel for the sport. You're always there when I've had a question or needed a bit of help on something.
-Art (Arturbo) from Arturbo.com[/B] for everything from Precision parts to a lending hand when it has been needed.
-Stan (Flamenco-T) at Fast-Turbo.com for all my head, fuel, wastegate, axles, oil line/fuel line needs as well as his lending hand.
-Jason (St00pid) from Autologic Inc., Tony (Tony1), and Steve (Mase) for taking the time and explaining different aspects of tuning to me as well as helping me understand how some different things work that I was unaware of before. The knowledge I have gained from these three is something that I use on a day in/day out basis and am very grateful/lucky to have these three at my disposal when a situation/question arrises.
-Chris (DiRep972) for EVERYTHING you've done! I can't thank you enough for all the help you have given me from the simplest things as helping figure out stupid things on the car to helping bust *** the night before to get the car ready for a race. I can't thank you enough for all you have done and for all the knowledge I have learned from you.
-All of those in DFW that have helped out on the car or helped diagnose a problem while I was stumped. There are so many that have helped out that the list would be too long to write out.
-Stoney at Velocity Performance for his fabwork on the car as well as getting everything installed. Also, big thanks to Velocity Performance for getting the car done before the San Antonio Event.


Details of Build Now:
2000 Honda Civic Si with AC
Engine:
-84.5mm Darton Sleeved B16
-CP 9.5:1 Pistons
-Crower Rods
-ACL Bearings
-Stock Headgasket bored out by Golden Eagle and Coppersprayed
-Fluidamper Pulley
-Fluidyne Radiator
Head:
-B16 Head
-Ferrea Valves
-Rev Springs/Retainers
-GSR Cams
-JG Victor X Intake Manifold
-JDM ITR Throttle Body
-Endyne Catch Can
Force Induction Parts:
-GT35E--Specs: .84 on turbine side and .56 on Compressor Side
-Inline Pro Manifold
-Tial 38mm Wastegate (.7bar spring)
-HKS SS BOV
-2.5" Intercooler Piping
-2.5" DP flared to 3" Flexsection and Custom 3" Exhaust
-Precision Large Intercooler (AS1026)
-3" K&N Air Filter
Electronics:
-AVCR Boost Controller (this was used on first tune, and am no longer using)
-Turbo XS Dual Stage Boost Controller
-Greddy 52mm Boost Gauge
-Greddy 52mm EGT Gauge
-PLX M300 Wideband
Fuel/Ignition:
-Neptune with p28
-Precision 1000cc Injectors
-STR Fuel Rail
-Aeromotive FPR (13109)
-Walbro 255 Intake Fuel Pump
-MSD 6A
-MSD Blaster 2 Coil
-Stock Honda Spark Plug Wires
Drivetrain:
-JDM GSR Tranny with stock LSD
-Gator Stage 2 Axles
-Clutchmasters Stage 5 with 4 puck
-Stock Flywheel
Suspension:
-Tein SS Coilovers
-Skunk2 Rear Lower Tie Bar

**FIRST UPDATE ON EVERYTHING:**

OK, I just got back from Houston a little while ago, and couldn't wait to post everything up. First let me post the dyno sheet and I will then explain everything from there on out:
Da Man Behind Da Madness:

Dyno Sheet with SAE of 5

Dyno Sheet with SAE of 0

Da Whip:





DETAILS:

OK, so I bet you are wondering what the hell is going on with the dyno graph and why we didn't make a million horsepower on pump gas. Here is what we did:
Dyno Numbers: 327whp/235ftlb of torque @ 14-18lbs (explanation below)
Fuel Type: 93 Octane
A/F: 11.2-11.4:1
Timing: 15 degrees
REV Limit: 9500 (Set up the car to throw a CEL at 9000RPMs as a Shift Light. That way, when it comes on, and by the time I react I will shift just short of the REV Limit. )

The only issue we had with the car was the AVCR Boost Controller. We tried to make several runs at 1.25 bar and the car would hit 1.25 bar until 7500RPM and then the boost would just fall off to around 1-1.05 bar. We made probably 6-7 runs messing with the Duty Cycle on the AVCR and every time the boost would continue to fall off at 7500RPM. I am going to switch out the AVCR to a Turbo XS or Turbo Smart Dual Stage Manual Boost Controller. Another perk of Neptune is that it can control either one of these based on wheel speed. (For Example say you run 11lbs off the line and then hit 45mph, you can have Neptune switch from low boost to high boost as soon as your car reaches 45mph).

Other than the issue of the boost falling off, there is nothing, but positive things to be said about the Neptune System!!! I think Chris (DiRep972) said it best:
Originally Posted by DIRep972
I havn't heard Brian this happy in awhile, I think he's in love with antilag!
I don't think I realized how happy I was with it until I started the drive home today. Smooth as butter! No hesitation of any sorts, no hiccups. Plus you wouldn't believe the gas mileage I got from Houston to Dallas! In the past I would be able to make it to Houston in approx a 1 1/4 tanks. I was able to make it this trip on one full tank. I tracked the mileage and I got a little over 300 miles to the tank which is right around 25mpg. I would have to say that's not too shabby for a car with 1000cc injectors.

The plans for right now are to get the new boost controller, and then do a re-tune on pump/race gas at the same time. The re-tune should be in a couple of weeks. I would like to thank Jason (St00pid) for EVERYTHING he did for me this weekend with and without the car. I would also like to thank Tony (Tony1) for be willing to help out with the system if anything were to arise. Jason is already aware that I am planning on taking the car to Tony for the new pump/race gas tune, and hopefully Jason will make the trip up for it. Might be a St00pid/Tony collaberation. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on the car! Be watching because there is nothing, but good things to come out of this! This is just the beginning!

**SECOND UPDATE ON EVERYTHING:**

Well last night Chris (DiRep972), was kind enough to drop his Turbo XS SBC off to me at work. When I got off of work I deinstalled the AVCR, and threw the SBC on there to see if it would make any difference. First I turned the SBC all the way down and made a pass on the highway to 9000rpm on just wastegate, and boost held fine. I pulled over into a parking lot and turned the dial up quite a few turns, and got back on the highway heading back home. Did the same thing, making a pass to 9000rpm, but this time it was at around 15lbs and it held the entire way. No issues after 7500rpm. Last night while I was at work I called Tony1 and we discussed a retune on the car. If all goes well, I will be retuning it tomorrow evening with the Turbo XS Dual Stage Boost Controller. I will be sure to keep everyone updated.

**THIRD UPDATE ON EVERYTHING:**
Here is the dyno sheet:



**Photo taken by SlowWhiteS2K**

Well, tonight was the night that I got tuned by Tony (Tony1). Last night Art (Arturbo) was kind enough to help install the Turbo XS and PLX Wideband. Tony did a wonderful job with everything, and took his time to ensure that everything went smoothly.

Dyno Numbers:346.5whp/250.2ftlb of torque @ 17lbs
Fuel Type: 93 Octane
A/F: 12.0-12.2:1
Timing: 16/17 degrees
REV Limit: 9000 (Set up the car to throw a CEL at 8500RPMs as a Shift Light. That way, when it comes on, and by the time I react I will shift just short of the REV Limit. )

Tony, Jason, and I have talked and it seems like the numbers for the amount of boost plus the setup I am running seems to be a little low. The motor doesn't seem to be responding as it should be for its displacement and all. While the problem of the boost falling off at 7500rpm was fixed, it seems like some part of my ignition is starting to go bad. I am going to check my cap/rotor this weekend, and eventually will replace my MSD 6A with a new one considering the one I purchased was from Ebay and have no idea what condition it was in. This weekend I am going to take the time to look over the motor and make sure that everything is ok, such as shaft play in turbo, cam timing, compression check, leakdown, check the flexpipe to make sure it hasn't collapsed, etc. After comparing this dyno sheet to my old one, it's obvious that something is choking my topend. Compare the above dyno to the one below(which was also reved to 9000rpm with only a 84mm bore, same turbo, 16lbs):


Notice how the HP/Torque continues to climb, and torque then holds constant. On the new dyno sheets HP/Torque just begin to fall/level off after 7500rpm which means something is going on internally. Will be doing some diagnoising, and will keep this updated.

None the less, the motor sounds great, and the drivability of it is amazing in and out of boost. Big thanks to Tony and Jason for taking the time to learn this new program, and giving me the opportunity to be the first car that they used it on. Hopefully more will follow soon as Neptune starts to become one of the leading tuning programs for Hondas. I will keep everyone updated with anymore information as it arises.


**FOURTH UPDATE ON EVERYTHING**


Today I went and drove out to Norwood's shop to meet Tony1 (Tony) and Andrew (bangin'gearz) to grab a bite to eat, and also take a look at possible causes of loss of power. I pulled the valve cover and as soon as I did that the problem is obvious. List of what's wrong:
-Exhaust Cam --Major Scoring on Cylinder One and middle lobe has flat-spots
--Minor Scoring on Cylinder Two
-Intake Cam
--Minor Scoring on Cylinder One and Two
-Exhaust/Intake Cam Rockers
--Major Scoring on Cylinders One to Three

This would explain why the car is losing topend especially with the amount of damage done to the exhaust cam. How did this happen?
Cliff Note Version: On Dec. 28th the car had to go back into the shop because the motor that was installed previously in October was poorly assembled, where the rings never set causing the motor to lose oil and I spun a bearing in Cylinder One. When this happened, excess garbage from the bearing was carried up to the head which caused the damage. At this point I am having to find new cams and cam rockers to replace everything. Once that is done, I will retune with Tony and hopefully everything will be good to go.




Modified by Bulldogg83 at 6:28 PM 2/14/2005
Old 02-06-2005, 04:45 PM
  #2  
 
Scho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

This is AVATAR posting on a friends computer.

Dude I'm glad the car is FINALLY starting to come together . . . the RIGHT way. I cant wait to see what this thing does ! ! ! Congrats Brian and props to everyone that got this guy running good. BOOYAHHHH TEXAS REPPIN ! ! !
Old 02-06-2005, 04:49 PM
  #3  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Bulldogg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Scho)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scho &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is AVATAR posting on a friends computer.

Dude I'm glad the car is FINALLY starting to come together . . . the RIGHT way. I cant wait to see what this thing does ! ! ! Congrats Brian and props to everyone that got this guy running good. BOOYAHHHH TEXAS REPPIN ! ! ! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks man. I'll give ya a call tomorrow when we get off the dyno. Maybe we can meet up when I get back tomorrow afternoon.
Old 02-06-2005, 05:17 PM
  #4  
Honda-Tech Member
 
HRTuning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 3,361
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

Great to hear everything is running great with the system...
Old 02-06-2005, 05:22 PM
  #5  
Honda-Tech Member
 
B20TDC2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: DFW, TX, USA
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

just curious what was the price on neptune and where did you get the software
Old 02-06-2005, 05:26 PM
  #6  
Junior Member
 
st00pid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 923
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (HRTuning)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HRTuning &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great to hear everything is running great with the system... </TD></TR></TABLE>

THANKS FOR GIVING IT TO US!!
Old 02-06-2005, 05:27 PM
  #7  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Bulldogg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (B20TDC2)

You can only get the software from those who have been authorized to distribute it. Contact HRTuning for a list of distributors.
Old 02-06-2005, 05:45 PM
  #8  
Honda-Tech Member
 
tony1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 15,814
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

Good luck with it, you're in good hands this time! lol
Old 02-06-2005, 05:46 PM
  #9  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Bulldogg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (tony1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good luck with it, you're in good hands this time! lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

God I hope so.
Old 02-06-2005, 07:14 PM
  #10  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Sohc Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: McKinney, TX, USA
Posts: 3,408
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

Great news buddy!! I can't wait to see new pics and videos of the beast.

BTW, are you and your GF married yet?

Khoi
Old 02-06-2005, 07:24 PM
  #11  
john d
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Sohc Driver)


good to hear brian
Old 02-06-2005, 07:59 PM
  #12  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Ray-mond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (john d)

hmmm I would like to find out more about this do they have a website
Old 02-06-2005, 08:00 PM
  #13  
Honda-Tech Member
 
SlowWhiteEvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DALLAS, TX
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (john d)

well the weekend started out disappointing but it looks like things are better than expected now...good luck brian
Old 02-06-2005, 08:03 PM
  #14  
Honda-Tech Member
 
leadfoot78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (john d)

Alright, tomorrow a dyno graph and some pics of the beast.
Old 02-06-2005, 08:09 PM
  #15  
Smarter than you
iTrader: (1)
 
DIRep972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Third Coast, united states
Posts: 8,240
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (SlowWhiteS2K)

Maybe the rain out this weekend was a blessing in disguise. Everything sounds like it's going good. Don't have too much fun in Screwston!
Old 02-06-2005, 08:28 PM
  #16  
Honda-Tech Member
 
HRTuning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 3,361
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (DIRep972)

Oh ya... How much boost were you building at launch?
Old 02-06-2005, 08:41 PM
  #17  
Junior Member
 
Cornbread Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sucka Free, USA
Posts: 879
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Sohc Driver)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sohc Driver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

BTW, are you and your GF married yet?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ouch! Guess he hasn't talked to you in a while huh?

Good luck with the car and Neptunage. Give Mike Jones a call while you're there .
Old 02-06-2005, 09:16 PM
  #18  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Cjsls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: deeefuu, tejas
Posts: 1,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!!

Brian........
wanna hear more about Neptune when you get back.
Old 02-06-2005, 09:37 PM
  #19  
Honda-Tech Member
 
4U2NV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: DF Dub, TX, USA
Posts: 1,941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

Good luck with the new set-up Brian...
Old 02-06-2005, 10:14 PM
  #20  
New User
 
Boostfed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Old 02-07-2005, 02:45 AM
  #21  
Honda-Tech Member
 
liam821's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,670
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default Re: (Boostfed)


We played around with the launch control on my car with Neptune a little bit. But i ended up disabling it an using my msd digital6plus.

Never the less Neptune has been awesome in my car. Tuned by Cortney Green in UTAH.

liam
Old 02-07-2005, 05:50 AM
  #22  
Better than steak
 
Arturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 16,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: (liam821)

Neptune is the ****!!
Old 02-07-2005, 07:11 AM
  #23  
Honda-Tech Member
 
CheezeFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,678
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Re: (Arturbo)

Does Neptune have gear-referenced boost control?
Old 02-07-2005, 07:34 AM
  #24  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Rod.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 4,151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: (CheezeFrog)

good luck brian
Old 02-07-2005, 07:41 AM
  #25  
Junior Member
 
Phil Koury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Bulldogg83)

Glad to see NepTune finally making its way around the country. We love it here on the East Coast!


Quick Reply: Another Build...Bigger and Better Than Ever!! (Neptune Info Inside!!!)



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:38 AM.