Air/Water intercooler use in a Street car...Good Idea yes or no?
04-01-2004, 11:45 AM
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Air/Water intercooler use in a Street car...Good Idea yes or no?
I was going to be doing a custom turbo set up for my GF's Prelude (5th Gen Prelude) and since she doesn't want to HACK anything up, and she wants to keep her JDM Fog lights...a Kit with a Front mount Air/Air is not the way to go.
So, I was all set in making a Air/Water kit with a Spearco 2-252 and such because I can keep all the piping in the engine bay and then just run teh water lines to a heat exchanger up front....but I just called the shop I'm buying my turbo manifold from...and they told me that they would NEVER use this kind of setup in a street car. Because after 20 minutes the water would be hot and it wouldn't cool anything down...
I explained that there is a rad there and a water pump...and that the engine uses this same principle, if air/air was so good why do we have water cooled engines?
Anyways, what are your thoughts?
After reading this article.... http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0090 I'm thinking the Air/Water will be just fine.
Modified by Jays91DXhatch at 8:57 PM 4/1/2004
So, I was all set in making a Air/Water kit with a Spearco 2-252 and such because I can keep all the piping in the engine bay and then just run teh water lines to a heat exchanger up front....but I just called the shop I'm buying my turbo manifold from...and they told me that they would NEVER use this kind of setup in a street car. Because after 20 minutes the water would be hot and it wouldn't cool anything down...
I explained that there is a rad there and a water pump...and that the engine uses this same principle, if air/air was so good why do we have water cooled engines?
Anyways, what are your thoughts?
After reading this article.... http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0090 I'm thinking the Air/Water will be just fine.
Modified by Jays91DXhatch at 8:57 PM 4/1/2004
04-01-2004, 01:46 PM
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Re: Air/Water intercooler use in a Street car...Good Idea yes or no? (Jays91DXhatch)
it will really depend on the efficiency of the heat exchanger you choose. I had a air/water set up on my car with a rather large cooler and during street use the water would get up to around 100 degrees and stay there. Unless you are using ice to cool the water i think air/water is the wrong way to go. Track days are a whole different story, with ice and a little anti freeze/water you can get extremely cold air temps like below freezing.
04-01-2004, 01:52 PM
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Re: Air/Water intercooler use in a Street car...Good Idea yes or no? (racerxadam)
im doing a air to water setup on my girls CRV right now...
im basicly relying on a good pump with a good flow and PSI ..and a really good radiator to cool the water down...i think its a decent idea.. i just wanted something different from every1 else.. but a turbo CRV w/ realtime .. isnt a common thing either... with in a month or so i will post an entire thing about my system....
im basicly relying on a good pump with a good flow and PSI ..and a really good radiator to cool the water down...i think its a decent idea.. i just wanted something different from every1 else.. but a turbo CRV w/ realtime .. isnt a common thing either... with in a month or so i will post an entire thing about my system....
04-01-2004, 02:24 PM
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i will be running a a/w setup on my car in about a month. my car will be daily driven. i really dont plan on having now problem from the searches i did. i havent heard one bad thing about their daily driven a/w setups. but i hear negeative stuff from people who never had one who think they know.
04-01-2004, 02:28 PM
#5
I know it's not turbo, but some guy is running an AW setup on his JRSC B18C1 and using two Civic radiatiors [one for the engine, one for the IC]. He's pretty quick, and has pretty good results with it.
I was originally wanting to use a water to air system, but decided to go air to air for simplicity and feasibility, as my car is much more than a daily driver, it's a daily beater, as in I slap the miles on like whoa.
I was originally wanting to use a water to air system, but decided to go air to air for simplicity and feasibility, as my car is much more than a daily driver, it's a daily beater, as in I slap the miles on like whoa.
04-01-2004, 02:31 PM
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Re: (Prelude91siT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it will really depend on the efficiency of the heat exchanger you choose. I had a air/water set up on my car with a rather large cooler and during street use the water would get up to around 100 degrees and stay there. Unless you are using ice to cool the water i think air/water is the wrong way to go. Track days are a whole different story, with ice and a little anti freeze/water you can get extremely cold air temps like below freezing.
</TD></TR></TABLE> ...Exactly what he said. It will do nothing once engine temps heat up the A/R cooler. Oh, and btw, pure alochol does a nice cooling trick too
... IMO, if you want to be different while getting wet, get or make a custom water sprayer for your intercooler! I rigged mine up with the windshield washer sprayers, and routed them to the underside of my front bumper. The chicks dig it 
</TD></TR></TABLE> ...Exactly what he said. It will do nothing once engine temps heat up the A/R cooler. Oh, and btw, pure alochol does a nice cooling trick too
... IMO, if you want to be different while getting wet, get or make a custom water sprayer for your intercooler! I rigged mine up with the windshield washer sprayers, and routed them to the underside of my front bumper. The chicks dig it
04-01-2004, 02:34 PM
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Re: (XLR8 GS-R)
As long as you have a good, efficient heat exchanger you will have no problems with running an air/water intercooler system on the street. A couple of OEM lightning water pumps from ford, a nice big water cell in the back, a big heat exchanger, and you're good to go.
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04-01-2004, 02:49 PM
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There isn't really a good reason to run air to water on the street on a Honda. On some other cars you can have a packaging issue if you try to use an air to air cooler. On a Honda, that's generaly not the problem.
In the end, you will not really end up much more efficient with an air to water cooler. While water can transfer heat more efficiently than air, you also have to exchange heat from air TWICE with an A/W cooler.
Plus, it's extra weight and a more complex system.
You do NOT want to run pure alcohol, there is absolutely no reason to do that. Water has a much igher specific heat than alky, and therefore is more effective.
In the end, you will not really end up much more efficient with an air to water cooler. While water can transfer heat more efficiently than air, you also have to exchange heat from air TWICE with an A/W cooler.
Plus, it's extra weight and a more complex system.
You do NOT want to run pure alcohol, there is absolutely no reason to do that. Water has a much igher specific heat than alky, and therefore is more effective.
04-01-2004, 07:35 PM
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Re: (SleepyEG)
Thanks for the comments guys.
It's really not to be more efficient, it all boils down to not wanting to hack up the front end, and keeping the JDM fog lights.
Also it's a show car so it's nice to have a different setup with the A/W under the hood compared to all the other honda's at the shows that have front mounts.
So basically if I get a good heat exchanger for the water, and a good pump, I would be just as efficient as air/air?
If that's the case, it's worth it.
I mean, Lightnings, 2003 SVT Cobra's, all of those are air/water..Heck, the Vortech Superchargers are all air/water cooled, that's right, just thought about that, don't really hear anyone with problems. If it's good for Vortech, should be good for me.
It's really not to be more efficient, it all boils down to not wanting to hack up the front end, and keeping the JDM fog lights.
Also it's a show car so it's nice to have a different setup with the A/W under the hood compared to all the other honda's at the shows that have front mounts.
So basically if I get a good heat exchanger for the water, and a good pump, I would be just as efficient as air/air?
If that's the case, it's worth it.
I mean, Lightnings, 2003 SVT Cobra's, all of those are air/water..Heck, the Vortech Superchargers are all air/water cooled, that's right, just thought about that, don't really hear anyone with problems. If it's good for Vortech, should be good for me.
04-01-2004, 07:48 PM
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Re: (Jays91DXhatch)
04-01-2004, 11:57 PM
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Re: (Nid Styles)
Wow... An A/W intercooler post, and no one mentioned my car yet...
Interesting...
232HP/180tq at the wheels with a 2" DP and a blown turbo. Sweetness.
It's now being built back up, 3" DP, traction bars, InlinePro Mani, SC34. Same 2-252 intercooler, though.
Interesting...
232HP/180tq at the wheels with a 2" DP and a blown turbo. Sweetness.
It's now being built back up, 3" DP, traction bars, InlinePro Mani, SC34. Same 2-252 intercooler, though.
04-02-2004, 01:46 AM
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Re: (Nid Styles)
Was. Traded it for the GSR cluster that's going in the car once it's running again.
Got the Tial 35mm when ImportParts.com was doing the $199 closeout on em.
Got the Tial 35mm when ImportParts.com was doing the $199 closeout on em.
04-02-2004, 04:04 AM
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sir you'd probably benefit for a larger intercooler core similar to that of racerxadams old setup...soon to be in my friends ride
the 252 is really tiny
although for a low boost setup it would be that bad...but if you were looking for some serious numbers id step it up to the bigger core...to make sure you have the best cooling effeicencey possible
the 252 is really tiny
although for a low boost setup it would be that bad...but if you were looking for some serious numbers id step it up to the bigger core...to make sure you have the best cooling effeicencey possible
04-02-2004, 04:24 AM
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Re: (SiR Kid)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR Kid »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow... An A/W intercooler post, and no one mentioned my car yet...
Interesting...
232HP/180tq at the wheels with a 2" DP and a blown turbo. Sweetness.
It's now being built back up, 3" DP, traction bars, InlinePro Mani, SC34. Same 2-252 intercooler, though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
DAMN guy, that's EXACTLY what I was thinking of doing..right down to the reservoir in the fender well where her factory intake resonator used to be.
What heat exchanger are you using there? What about pump?
**right click.....save as**
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sir you'd probably benefit for a larger intercooler core similar to that of racerxadams old setup...soon to be in my friends ride
the 252 is really tiny although for a low boost setup it would be that bad...but if you were looking for some serious numbers id step it up to the bigger core...to make sure you have the best cooling effeicencey possible </TD></TR></TABLE>
I dunno, from this website..... http://www.racetep.com/tneticatolic.html
They say the 2-252 is good for up to 2.6L engine and 450cfm, the bigger core is for 4.2L or 700cfm....not really sure if it's "needed" Probably a more effective heat exchanger setup would be better then a bigger core..i think.
Again, thanks guys, obviously this shop was **full of it** Screw them.
Interesting...
232HP/180tq at the wheels with a 2" DP and a blown turbo. Sweetness.
It's now being built back up, 3" DP, traction bars, InlinePro Mani, SC34. Same 2-252 intercooler, though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
DAMN guy, that's EXACTLY what I was thinking of doing..right down to the reservoir in the fender well where her factory intake resonator used to be.
What heat exchanger are you using there? What about pump?
**right click.....save as**
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sir you'd probably benefit for a larger intercooler core similar to that of racerxadams old setup...soon to be in my friends ride
the 252 is really tiny although for a low boost setup it would be that bad...but if you were looking for some serious numbers id step it up to the bigger core...to make sure you have the best cooling effeicencey possible </TD></TR></TABLE>
I dunno, from this website..... http://www.racetep.com/tneticatolic.html
They say the 2-252 is good for up to 2.6L engine and 450cfm, the bigger core is for 4.2L or 700cfm....not really sure if it's "needed" Probably a more effective heat exchanger setup would be better then a bigger core..i think.
Again, thanks guys, obviously this shop was **full of it** Screw them.
04-02-2004, 04:41 AM
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Re: (Prelude91siT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Prelude91siT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i but i hear negeative stuff from people who never had one who think they know.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactamundo!
And SiR Kid, I thought of your car first when he mentioned A/W setups!
BTW, are you sure there is no way to fit a FMIC with the JDM fogs? All this trouble just because your GF doesn't want to lose her foglights? LOL! Men...no wonder we're so whooped!
Exactamundo!
And SiR Kid, I thought of your car first when he mentioned A/W setups!
BTW, are you sure there is no way to fit a FMIC with the JDM fogs? All this trouble just because your GF doesn't want to lose her foglights? LOL! Men...no wonder we're so whooped!
04-02-2004, 04:54 AM
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Re: (98CTRCoupe)
I called a bunch of places and as soon as they mentioned cutting this and bending that and the fog lights not working...she freaked..so we can't do that.
Also, we can maybe polish this intercooler up for some BLANG BLANG...lol
But really, it will be much different then the other Turbo setups that we see all the time, which i a good thing.
Also, we can maybe polish this intercooler up for some BLANG BLANG...lol
But really, it will be much different then the other Turbo setups that we see all the time, which i a good thing.
04-02-2004, 05:23 AM
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and thats one reason why i'm so hyped on my a/w setup. also got my piping thermal coated along with manifold,downpipe and dump tubeso it gives it a polished aluminum look. give it a lil blang blang under the hood.
heat exchanger 22X6.5x2 think it should work pretty good
heat exchanger 22X6.5x2 think it should work pretty good
04-02-2004, 05:48 AM
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Re: (drumking15)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drumking15 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"></TD></TR></TABLE>
damn, my max rev mani looks pretty in that pic, so does the rest of the engine bay. too bad its all covered in crap from driving now.
</TD></TR></TABLE>damn, my max rev mani looks pretty in that pic, so does the rest of the engine bay. too bad its all covered in crap from driving now.
04-02-2004, 06:08 AM
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Re: (racerxadam)
There's a ton of posts on this subject... Here's a decent one, though if you search you'll find plenty.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=519930&page=1
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=519930&page=1