AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue
04-26-2008, 06:46 AM
#1
AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue
Gentlemen, (and of course ladies)
I thought this might be a good discussion of information regarding the new AEM F/IC, for those that want to be able to use OBD2, stay in the 21st century (avoiding "burned chips", and a rats-nest of wires) and at the same time staying a bit more affordable as opposed to going to full standalone. These systems are made for those that want to use a High compression N/A setup, or a good street/strip turbocharged application without a lot of fuss.
I've personally been a fan of E-manage for a good number of years (though I like the Ulitmate MUCH more) and feel that AEM really did a good job here filling in the gap, though i am a bit concerned it gives too much control to the user, allowing
possible user error. I've been working with a few shops and teams regarding this as an option in non-Honda applications, and so far there's been some good positive feedback. I'm anxious to see about the test with the Ultimate, because I believe that is much more fair comparison.
Anyway, take a look at his opinion
Paul Oleandi is a well-known tuner, though most here may not have heard of him because he deals with more applications than simply Honda, but his opinion is quite valid. It's a bit long, but a good read, nonetheless.
Greddy E-manage 'Blue'
Vs.
AEM F/ IC
Plug N Play harness is coming soon
AEM FIC vs GReddy E-manage
War of the masses I tell ya!! The age old debate is at hand here: Is product ‘A’ better than product ‘B’? Well let’s bury our noses deep into the facts and beyond to answer this question. First off, let’s start with some brief descriptions of each unit:
From GReddy website:
GReddy’s e-Manage is a cost effective programmable engine management system that allows you to properly tune your factory engine control without having to change the entire factory ECU system to an expensive "stand-alone" unit or the inconvenience of sending it out for a full ECU reprogram…Basic functions will allow the tuner to slightly alter factory injector duty-cycle (± 20% at 5 preset RPM points) by intercepting and altering airflow or MAP sensor signals. An option for Honda VTEC cars will allow you to even adjust the VTEC shift point. Additional features are built into the system but are only accessible through the use of the e0-1, PRofec e-01 programmer or our PC-Windows based "e-Manage Support Tool" communication software (sold separately). There is a 16x16 airflow adjustment map, a maximum 50% larger main injector correction adjustment, upgrade air flow meter adjustment, boost limiter cut, anti-engine stall, VTEC-fuel adjustment, real-time map trace, real-time display, real-time communication and basic Data-logging. With the use of our "Optional Injector Harness" and the software, the unit has the ability to control an additional 16x16 injector duty cycle map and the controls for adding up to 2 additional sub-injectors. If the "Optional Ignition Harness" and the software are used the unit has the ability to control a 16x16 ignition timing map. All of the above maps can also be map-traced in real-time as well. If the factory range of map or airflow meter is surpassed, you can incorporate a larger airflow meter or our "Optional GReddy Pressure Sensor and Pressure Harness" to set larger scales of adjustment.
From AEM’s website:
The F/IC gives users with OBD-II vehicles and non-factory forced induction systems the ability to retard ignition and deliver accurate amounts of fuel without the need for outdated FMUs or “boost hiding” controllers. This system works parallel to the factory ECU preventing tuning limitations due to complex factory timing patterns and will not cause a check engine light (CEL).
PRECISE FUEL DELIVERY The F/IC intercepts the signal to the stock injectors, allowing the user to modify pulse-width by +/-100%. The F/IC is the only piggy-back system that can decrease injector pulse-width, allowing the user to drive larger aftermarket injectors* while still maintaining proper air / fuel ratios. This powerful system can also tap into the factory injector signal and work independently to drive up to six (6) additional injectors. TIMING RETARD CONTROL The F/IC has the ability to retard timing by intercepting and delaying the outputs from the cam and crank position sensors to the engine- with no adverse affect on applications equipped with variable cam timing. The F/IC can retard timing from the factory system based on engine RPM and load inputs. SENSOR CALIBRATION & CONTROL The F/IC can also be used to recalibrate / clamp the MAF sensor, eliminating common problems with non-boosted factory MAFs. The on-board MAP sensor allows for proper fueling in boosted applications.
KIT CONTENTS
•F/IC Module
•F/IC Tuner Software CD
•F/IC Bypass Harness
•24" Flying Lead Harness
•36" Vacuum Hose
•3/16" T-Fitting
•10' USB COM Cable
•4 - 4" Zip Ties
•Instruction Manual
Wow! That was tiring right there, and lot of info, but let’s peer closer into it to allow for some granularity?
Let’s start with the old reliable, GReddy E-manage. The E-manage is pretty simple and has been around for quite some time. It was proven to work pretty well on OBD1 cars, and mediocre success on OBD2. The unit is still loved by many, but with all of the sophisticated OBD2 inter-workings, this unit lacks quite a bit! The unit is controlled and programmed through jumper settings, rotary settings and the software package called the ‘Support Tool’. Through the use of these 3 things, the unit now knows what it is running on (vehicle wise). It knows if it is wasted spark, how many cylinders, VTEC etc.
The Support Tool software for the E-manage is ‘ok’ at best and has some issues if not updated, using a serial to USB connector, using Vista and it happens to rain (joke). This can pose some issues for the end user or tuner who did not have prior knowledge into the problematic software. Once, you are all set, it is rather easy to control and manipulate.
The Support Tool is really what makes the E-manage shine in my honest opinion. It is an “optional” unit, but is essential to programming the unit. The average street price of the Support Tool is around $100. It allows for injector correction factor with ease (input the old and new size and your done!), has a general ‘Air Flow’ map, which is a decent way to add or subtract fuel based upon throttle position, and the other map that may help in some situations, is a MAP clamp option. That is also available in the ‘main harness,’ which is included with the E-manage unit, which you could buy at an average street price of $300. So let’s recap what we just spent to get to where we are now:
E-manage unit $300 (includes main harness)
Support Tool $100 (allows for programming of the E-manage)
Let’s say we want to directly add injector duty cycle to these larger injectors instead of skewing the MAP or MAF sensor in the car. We need the GReddy Injector harness, which street values at around $40. This now allows us to add duty cycle or pulse width to the injectors, but we are still working off of throttle position, which we all know on a turbo car makes for a sloppy tune. The manifold pressure or speed density tuning is where it’s at! Nothing compares to tuning off of boost, to allow for serious correction based upon manifold pressure. Wait!!!! That requires the GReddy Pressure Sensor, which is around $100 street price (adds that to the list) and now we need to connect that sensor to the E-manage and must purchase the Pressure Sensor Harness, which is another $40. Back to the math here:
E-manage unit $300 (includes main harness)
Support Tool $100 (allows for programming of the E-manage)
Injector harness $40 (add duty cycle directly to the injectors)
Pressure Sensor $100 (allow for speed density tuning)
Pressure Sensor harness $40 (allows for pressure sensor to connect to unit)
GRAND TOTAL SPENT THUS far: $580
“Now wait just a cotton-picking minute here! You mean to tell me I have to spend $580 just to get this thing to where I can get CLOSE to done and ready to accommodate my N/A car to Turbo, which I already spent $5K on?” The answer simply is: “yes”, and we are not done yet Dorothy. We have not even addressed the ignition side of the deal yet. Turbo cars are far more prone to detonation due to increased charge temps due to the turbocharger. This is a lot of stress on your intercooler to cool these temps to make them more compressed, cold and condensed and less prone to detonate.
Let’s all remember we are not living in a perfect world, and snap back to reality, because the truth of the matter lies in the fact that the turbo car will detonate and the ignition portion of tuning should not be overlooked, so it looks like we are going to add another $40 to the mix for that “Optional Ignition Harness”. Back to the math once again:
E-manage unit $300 (includes main harness)
Support Tool $100 (allows for programming of the E-manage)
Injector harness $40 (add duty cycle directly to the injectors)
Pressure Sensor $100 (allow for speed density tuning)
Pressure Sensor harness $40 (allows for pressure sensor to connect to unit)
Ignition harness $40 (allows for control of ignition timing)
GRAND TOTAL SPENT THUS far: $620
Now we are cooking with fire!!! So let’s get down to tuning. Ok, so we are with this $620 E-manage and we are ready to tune. The airflow is rather useless for me. The so-called ‘optional’ stuff is the most beneficial and it is still rather useless in some cases. With respect to duty cycle on the injection map, you can ONLY raise it. You can not lower the fuel delivery, which in some cases is a hindrance. For example, I added a new Walbro 255 pump and now because the stock pump was falling off so much on the top end, for me to be at 0 change in pulse width is too much fuel. Bummers!!!
With respect to the ignition control, it’s a joke! It kind of works part of time (like a DSM; LOL) I had our Snap-On MT2500 hooked in to monitor fuel trims and ignition timing, only to find out that when I was tuning and I added timing, it stayed the same according to the Snap-On unit. Then, when I retarded timing, it worked 90% of the time. How’s that for accuracy???
Now for the real kicker! Since the OBD2 inception back in late 1995, there are a lot of sneaky ECU games happening and the players, such as Toyota and Honda, have become even sneakier in the past 5-7 years. More vehicles are now coming equipped with a hybrid wideband primary oxygen sensor, which is VERY hard to fool. It is providing the stock ECU with extremely accurate data and allowing it to make corrections on your car in closed-loop operation. This makes for one tough cookie to crack with respect to piggyback ECUs like the E-manage. The primary oxygen sensor plays a sophisticated spy game that the E-manage are unaware of. Why? Because the E-manage does not connect to the primary oxygen sensor at all. It has no idea the thing even exists!!! So when you are in closed loop, which on some cars I have encountered is less than 4500 RPMS and less than 85% throttle, you’re being corrected by that oxygen sensor. Well what can we do to combat this, but not spend $2K on a standalone?
The AEM FIC may quite possibly be the solution here of the millennium with respect to piggybacks and comprehensive nature. It can control fuel, retard ignition, variable MAP/MAF voltage clamp, VTEC control and O2 sensor skew. It’s quite frankly a watered down AEM EMS at a great price of approximately $400 on the street.
The fuel control is not as user friendly as the E-manage, but allows for much more precise control in my opinion. It allows the user to fully add or take away fuel all in one map. You do have manually calculate how much fuel you want to pull out instead of doing it the old before and after way like the E-manage, but the FIC’s way allows for more tweaking and fine tuning due to the fact that you can take out 43% for those larger injectors to get to a 14.7:1 or 44% or 42%. So the additional control is there! It is not just a broad stroke like the E-manage.
The FIC also comes with an on-board MAP sensor that allows for tuning based off of it. It reads in absolute pressure, which takes into account all sides of manifold pressure. With using it’s tools to the fullest potential, the most simplistic way to tune this unit on a car like the tC would be to clamp the MAF using a variable clamp in the MAF tables, then using the fuel map and on-board pressure sensor to control all fuel in positive manifold pressure (boost). ☺ This seems to work the best (if done properly). Of course if you can get away with getting the results you need with using minimal maps and functions inside the FIC, please do so.
The FIC also comes equipped with an O2 sensor skewing option, to help retain your maps versus that pesky wideband O2 and the stock ECU. This is truly a huge step in the piggyback realm (and long overdue quite frankly). I am not saying no one has ever come to the market with an O2 skewing piggyback before, because companies like Split Second, PCS and a few others have paved that route, but lacked control, precision and/or ignition control as well. So what does this mean to the end user? That means NO ECU RELEARNING!!! As a word to the wise, make sure you have a hand-held scan tool handy to monitor your fuel trims and set that skewer up properly. It can tricky and ugly quickly for sure if you’re not monitoring those trims.
Lastly, the real awesome benefit of the FIC lies with the ability to retard timing on those boosted applications. The way that the FIC does this is truly like its older brother, the EMS, in the fact that it does it through the crank sensor, and not altering signals going to each and every coil pack, which can become inconsistent like the E-manage does. So this method is truly innovative and long overdue in the piggyback realm as well.
In conclusion, the AEM FIC is the true and best choice for your buck with respect to piggyback engine managements. Do not be confused, it is still a piggyback, and a REAL standalone should be considered for those high dollar, high HP goals. For the guy looking to have a little more fun on the weekend and add 100whp to their Civic, tC or whatever it may be, the AEM FIC is the definitive choice. Lastly, there is a new software release for the FIC, which allows you to datalog an AEM UEGO, which can come in incredibly handy on those street tuning or dyno tuning sessions.
Enjoy!
Written by:
Paul Oleandi
Coined ‘Sciontologist’ by Modified Magazine
Tuner & Engineer for Dezod Motorsports
AEM EMS Trained & Certified
I thought this might be a good discussion of information regarding the new AEM F/IC, for those that want to be able to use OBD2, stay in the 21st century (avoiding "burned chips", and a rats-nest of wires) and at the same time staying a bit more affordable as opposed to going to full standalone. These systems are made for those that want to use a High compression N/A setup, or a good street/strip turbocharged application without a lot of fuss.
I've personally been a fan of E-manage for a good number of years (though I like the Ulitmate MUCH more) and feel that AEM really did a good job here filling in the gap, though i am a bit concerned it gives too much control to the user, allowing
possible user error. I've been working with a few shops and teams regarding this as an option in non-Honda applications, and so far there's been some good positive feedback. I'm anxious to see about the test with the Ultimate, because I believe that is much more fair comparison.
Anyway, take a look at his opinion
Paul Oleandi is a well-known tuner, though most here may not have heard of him because he deals with more applications than simply Honda, but his opinion is quite valid. It's a bit long, but a good read, nonetheless.
Greddy E-manage 'Blue'
Vs.
AEM F/ IC
Plug N Play harness is coming soon
AEM FIC vs GReddy E-manage
War of the masses I tell ya!! The age old debate is at hand here: Is product ‘A’ better than product ‘B’? Well let’s bury our noses deep into the facts and beyond to answer this question. First off, let’s start with some brief descriptions of each unit:
From GReddy website:
GReddy’s e-Manage is a cost effective programmable engine management system that allows you to properly tune your factory engine control without having to change the entire factory ECU system to an expensive "stand-alone" unit or the inconvenience of sending it out for a full ECU reprogram…Basic functions will allow the tuner to slightly alter factory injector duty-cycle (± 20% at 5 preset RPM points) by intercepting and altering airflow or MAP sensor signals. An option for Honda VTEC cars will allow you to even adjust the VTEC shift point. Additional features are built into the system but are only accessible through the use of the e0-1, PRofec e-01 programmer or our PC-Windows based "e-Manage Support Tool" communication software (sold separately). There is a 16x16 airflow adjustment map, a maximum 50% larger main injector correction adjustment, upgrade air flow meter adjustment, boost limiter cut, anti-engine stall, VTEC-fuel adjustment, real-time map trace, real-time display, real-time communication and basic Data-logging. With the use of our "Optional Injector Harness" and the software, the unit has the ability to control an additional 16x16 injector duty cycle map and the controls for adding up to 2 additional sub-injectors. If the "Optional Ignition Harness" and the software are used the unit has the ability to control a 16x16 ignition timing map. All of the above maps can also be map-traced in real-time as well. If the factory range of map or airflow meter is surpassed, you can incorporate a larger airflow meter or our "Optional GReddy Pressure Sensor and Pressure Harness" to set larger scales of adjustment.
From AEM’s website:
The F/IC gives users with OBD-II vehicles and non-factory forced induction systems the ability to retard ignition and deliver accurate amounts of fuel without the need for outdated FMUs or “boost hiding” controllers. This system works parallel to the factory ECU preventing tuning limitations due to complex factory timing patterns and will not cause a check engine light (CEL).
PRECISE FUEL DELIVERY The F/IC intercepts the signal to the stock injectors, allowing the user to modify pulse-width by +/-100%. The F/IC is the only piggy-back system that can decrease injector pulse-width, allowing the user to drive larger aftermarket injectors* while still maintaining proper air / fuel ratios. This powerful system can also tap into the factory injector signal and work independently to drive up to six (6) additional injectors. TIMING RETARD CONTROL The F/IC has the ability to retard timing by intercepting and delaying the outputs from the cam and crank position sensors to the engine- with no adverse affect on applications equipped with variable cam timing. The F/IC can retard timing from the factory system based on engine RPM and load inputs. SENSOR CALIBRATION & CONTROL The F/IC can also be used to recalibrate / clamp the MAF sensor, eliminating common problems with non-boosted factory MAFs. The on-board MAP sensor allows for proper fueling in boosted applications.
KIT CONTENTS
•F/IC Module
•F/IC Tuner Software CD
•F/IC Bypass Harness
•24" Flying Lead Harness
•36" Vacuum Hose
•3/16" T-Fitting
•10' USB COM Cable
•4 - 4" Zip Ties
•Instruction Manual
Wow! That was tiring right there, and lot of info, but let’s peer closer into it to allow for some granularity?
Let’s start with the old reliable, GReddy E-manage. The E-manage is pretty simple and has been around for quite some time. It was proven to work pretty well on OBD1 cars, and mediocre success on OBD2. The unit is still loved by many, but with all of the sophisticated OBD2 inter-workings, this unit lacks quite a bit! The unit is controlled and programmed through jumper settings, rotary settings and the software package called the ‘Support Tool’. Through the use of these 3 things, the unit now knows what it is running on (vehicle wise). It knows if it is wasted spark, how many cylinders, VTEC etc.
The Support Tool software for the E-manage is ‘ok’ at best and has some issues if not updated, using a serial to USB connector, using Vista and it happens to rain (joke). This can pose some issues for the end user or tuner who did not have prior knowledge into the problematic software. Once, you are all set, it is rather easy to control and manipulate.
The Support Tool is really what makes the E-manage shine in my honest opinion. It is an “optional” unit, but is essential to programming the unit. The average street price of the Support Tool is around $100. It allows for injector correction factor with ease (input the old and new size and your done!), has a general ‘Air Flow’ map, which is a decent way to add or subtract fuel based upon throttle position, and the other map that may help in some situations, is a MAP clamp option. That is also available in the ‘main harness,’ which is included with the E-manage unit, which you could buy at an average street price of $300. So let’s recap what we just spent to get to where we are now:
E-manage unit $300 (includes main harness)
Support Tool $100 (allows for programming of the E-manage)
Let’s say we want to directly add injector duty cycle to these larger injectors instead of skewing the MAP or MAF sensor in the car. We need the GReddy Injector harness, which street values at around $40. This now allows us to add duty cycle or pulse width to the injectors, but we are still working off of throttle position, which we all know on a turbo car makes for a sloppy tune. The manifold pressure or speed density tuning is where it’s at! Nothing compares to tuning off of boost, to allow for serious correction based upon manifold pressure. Wait!!!! That requires the GReddy Pressure Sensor, which is around $100 street price (adds that to the list) and now we need to connect that sensor to the E-manage and must purchase the Pressure Sensor Harness, which is another $40. Back to the math here:
E-manage unit $300 (includes main harness)
Support Tool $100 (allows for programming of the E-manage)
Injector harness $40 (add duty cycle directly to the injectors)
Pressure Sensor $100 (allow for speed density tuning)
Pressure Sensor harness $40 (allows for pressure sensor to connect to unit)
GRAND TOTAL SPENT THUS far: $580
“Now wait just a cotton-picking minute here! You mean to tell me I have to spend $580 just to get this thing to where I can get CLOSE to done and ready to accommodate my N/A car to Turbo, which I already spent $5K on?” The answer simply is: “yes”, and we are not done yet Dorothy. We have not even addressed the ignition side of the deal yet. Turbo cars are far more prone to detonation due to increased charge temps due to the turbocharger. This is a lot of stress on your intercooler to cool these temps to make them more compressed, cold and condensed and less prone to detonate.
Let’s all remember we are not living in a perfect world, and snap back to reality, because the truth of the matter lies in the fact that the turbo car will detonate and the ignition portion of tuning should not be overlooked, so it looks like we are going to add another $40 to the mix for that “Optional Ignition Harness”. Back to the math once again:
E-manage unit $300 (includes main harness)
Support Tool $100 (allows for programming of the E-manage)
Injector harness $40 (add duty cycle directly to the injectors)
Pressure Sensor $100 (allow for speed density tuning)
Pressure Sensor harness $40 (allows for pressure sensor to connect to unit)
Ignition harness $40 (allows for control of ignition timing)
GRAND TOTAL SPENT THUS far: $620
Now we are cooking with fire!!! So let’s get down to tuning. Ok, so we are with this $620 E-manage and we are ready to tune. The airflow is rather useless for me. The so-called ‘optional’ stuff is the most beneficial and it is still rather useless in some cases. With respect to duty cycle on the injection map, you can ONLY raise it. You can not lower the fuel delivery, which in some cases is a hindrance. For example, I added a new Walbro 255 pump and now because the stock pump was falling off so much on the top end, for me to be at 0 change in pulse width is too much fuel. Bummers!!!
With respect to the ignition control, it’s a joke! It kind of works part of time (like a DSM; LOL) I had our Snap-On MT2500 hooked in to monitor fuel trims and ignition timing, only to find out that when I was tuning and I added timing, it stayed the same according to the Snap-On unit. Then, when I retarded timing, it worked 90% of the time. How’s that for accuracy???
Now for the real kicker! Since the OBD2 inception back in late 1995, there are a lot of sneaky ECU games happening and the players, such as Toyota and Honda, have become even sneakier in the past 5-7 years. More vehicles are now coming equipped with a hybrid wideband primary oxygen sensor, which is VERY hard to fool. It is providing the stock ECU with extremely accurate data and allowing it to make corrections on your car in closed-loop operation. This makes for one tough cookie to crack with respect to piggyback ECUs like the E-manage. The primary oxygen sensor plays a sophisticated spy game that the E-manage are unaware of. Why? Because the E-manage does not connect to the primary oxygen sensor at all. It has no idea the thing even exists!!! So when you are in closed loop, which on some cars I have encountered is less than 4500 RPMS and less than 85% throttle, you’re being corrected by that oxygen sensor. Well what can we do to combat this, but not spend $2K on a standalone?
The AEM FIC may quite possibly be the solution here of the millennium with respect to piggybacks and comprehensive nature. It can control fuel, retard ignition, variable MAP/MAF voltage clamp, VTEC control and O2 sensor skew. It’s quite frankly a watered down AEM EMS at a great price of approximately $400 on the street.
The fuel control is not as user friendly as the E-manage, but allows for much more precise control in my opinion. It allows the user to fully add or take away fuel all in one map. You do have manually calculate how much fuel you want to pull out instead of doing it the old before and after way like the E-manage, but the FIC’s way allows for more tweaking and fine tuning due to the fact that you can take out 43% for those larger injectors to get to a 14.7:1 or 44% or 42%. So the additional control is there! It is not just a broad stroke like the E-manage.
The FIC also comes with an on-board MAP sensor that allows for tuning based off of it. It reads in absolute pressure, which takes into account all sides of manifold pressure. With using it’s tools to the fullest potential, the most simplistic way to tune this unit on a car like the tC would be to clamp the MAF using a variable clamp in the MAF tables, then using the fuel map and on-board pressure sensor to control all fuel in positive manifold pressure (boost). ☺ This seems to work the best (if done properly). Of course if you can get away with getting the results you need with using minimal maps and functions inside the FIC, please do so.
The FIC also comes equipped with an O2 sensor skewing option, to help retain your maps versus that pesky wideband O2 and the stock ECU. This is truly a huge step in the piggyback realm (and long overdue quite frankly). I am not saying no one has ever come to the market with an O2 skewing piggyback before, because companies like Split Second, PCS and a few others have paved that route, but lacked control, precision and/or ignition control as well. So what does this mean to the end user? That means NO ECU RELEARNING!!! As a word to the wise, make sure you have a hand-held scan tool handy to monitor your fuel trims and set that skewer up properly. It can tricky and ugly quickly for sure if you’re not monitoring those trims.
Lastly, the real awesome benefit of the FIC lies with the ability to retard timing on those boosted applications. The way that the FIC does this is truly like its older brother, the EMS, in the fact that it does it through the crank sensor, and not altering signals going to each and every coil pack, which can become inconsistent like the E-manage does. So this method is truly innovative and long overdue in the piggyback realm as well.
In conclusion, the AEM FIC is the true and best choice for your buck with respect to piggyback engine managements. Do not be confused, it is still a piggyback, and a REAL standalone should be considered for those high dollar, high HP goals. For the guy looking to have a little more fun on the weekend and add 100whp to their Civic, tC or whatever it may be, the AEM FIC is the definitive choice. Lastly, there is a new software release for the FIC, which allows you to datalog an AEM UEGO, which can come in incredibly handy on those street tuning or dyno tuning sessions.
Enjoy!
Written by:
Paul Oleandi
Coined ‘Sciontologist’ by Modified Magazine
Tuner & Engineer for Dezod Motorsports
AEM EMS Trained & Certified
04-26-2008, 07:09 PM
#3
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Re: AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue (JDogg)
NICE!! aemems user here, but ive been looking forward to a good FIC review as a lot of my friends need a good tuning option but dont want to go the chipped route, ty!!
04-26-2008, 07:11 PM
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Re: AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue (JDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">has anyone gotten an fic working right on an obd2 honda yet?</TD></TR></TABLE>
According to AEM, yes. Working on 8th gen civics, OBD2 NSX, RSX, etc. The early problems people were having with the cam sensors have been fixed with a newer unit.
http://forum.aempower.com/foru....html
According to AEM, yes. Working on 8th gen civics, OBD2 NSX, RSX, etc. The early problems people were having with the cam sensors have been fixed with a newer unit.
http://forum.aempower.com/foru....html
04-26-2008, 09:39 PM
#6
Re: AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue (spectacle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spectacle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good review...would have been interested to see a comparison between the Emanage Blue vs the AEM F/IC</TD></TR></TABLE>
How do you mean? If they both could work, what are you parameters for comparison?
How do you mean? If they both could work, what are you parameters for comparison?
04-26-2008, 10:33 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
one works, one doesn't.
FIC is at least a viable option. I tell people with E-Manage to take a hike. My reputation is worth more than the shitty tunes I get from it.
And if you can't tell, that's a totally biased personal opinion based on nothing other than fried coilpacks, relearning galore and piggyback hatred.
FIC is at least a viable option. I tell people with E-Manage to take a hike. My reputation is worth more than the shitty tunes I get from it.
And if you can't tell, that's a totally biased personal opinion based on nothing other than fried coilpacks, relearning galore and piggyback hatred.
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04-27-2008, 03:09 AM
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Re: AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue (TheShodan)
I am a huge fan of piggybacks... I deal with a whole bunch of one-of-a-kind turbo cars of many makes and model and standalone is never an option in most cases.
Honestly, any guy with a common Honda should go shoot themselves if they try to run a piggyback on a decent boosted setup...lol With tons of standalone options, it's way more cost effective than to pay someone to wire in, set up and fine tune a piggyback setup. You gotta pay to play... When a customer tries to cheap out on management, they end up sinking in $700-1000+ in labour and tuning just to get a piggyback running correctly and fit for daily driving for setups requiring larger injectors, more than 5-6 deg of timing control, etc. Including the cost of the piggyback itself, it's already standalone $ territory. Plug in a standalone, spend 2-3 hours of tuning and you are good to go.
I use all piggybacks on a regular basis, and it depends on the car. AEM FI/C seems to be promising, yeah, try that with most Toyotas. Toyota crank sensors HATES being touched, and when you wire in the FI/C in there, get ready for some real fun. Car stalling, fail to start, and car can literally shut down on you in the middle of the highway. FI/C on a Mazda, and now your car probably takes a good 5-10 secs of cranking before the engine catches. You can't obtain RPM signal unless you feed a crank signal for the F/IC, which renders the unit useless if you have a car that has a sensitive/troublesome crank signal. I also ran into one FI/C unit when the internal MAP sensor failed as well. When the internal MAP failed, the software automatically runs the engine at the lowest scale on the fuel/ignition tables. That's ridiculous because the lowest cell is always the most timing and least fuel. One car came in boosting in 14's AFR without even knowing the MAP failed until he caught it on his wideband early enough. AEM did well on their AEM EMS though, because I am sure many of you know that a failing MAP sensor on the AEM EMS will automatically run the car based on TPS vs RPM. This in turn makes the car run at the highest load scale instead (least timing, most fuel). I just wished AEM would stop rushing their damn products.
I only use the FI/C for very basic Honda setups just so it becomes a good upgrade for those basic turbo kits that still uses an FMU and sh*t, or all motor setups
I'd take the E-manage Blue over the FI/C most of the time. The E-manage can be wired in with as little control as possible. Say you need to add fuel only, all it needs is a tach RPM signal, power and GND, and injector harness. If you really hate intercepting the ignition signal, you can use an OBD-II diagnostics software via laptop and log the timing. Shift the MAP/MAF values around in airflow map to have some control over a range of timing, and then use the injector map to re-correct the fuel maps again. For boost reference for all maps, just add the boost sensor. Now you have some timing control (+/- 3-4 deg) without even needing an ignition harness. On the topic of intercepting the ignition signal, just like all piggybacks on a unique particular car, you have to confirm the timing changes with a timing light on the dyno under load. 8 out of 10 times I would get good ignition control out of an E-manage... The other two times, I had to do some digging and reading on the web to find out if it needed some resistors or diodes between the circuit (ie: Mazda, Dodges). It's always worth the extra money to run an E-manage IMO.
I usually have guys in here with custom turbo cars, and I use the E-manage Ultimate if they are looking for the best available tune for their car besides a full custom standalone (ie: haltech, etc) and a fresh new basemap from scratch (easily $3000+). In conjunction with several common wideband and narrowband primary O2 modifiers from Splitsec which can be had for cheap, the Ultimate is pretty darn good with all the essentials for a thorough tune ie: IAT comp, coolant temp comp, individual cyl fuel & ignition control, and you can actually implement a closed-loop O2 system using a wideband even if your car doesn't come with one from the factory.
The above is basically what I have dealt with for the past 6 years or so (all started with the blue of course)
Honestly, any guy with a common Honda should go shoot themselves if they try to run a piggyback on a decent boosted setup...lol With tons of standalone options, it's way more cost effective than to pay someone to wire in, set up and fine tune a piggyback setup. You gotta pay to play... When a customer tries to cheap out on management, they end up sinking in $700-1000+ in labour and tuning just to get a piggyback running correctly and fit for daily driving for setups requiring larger injectors, more than 5-6 deg of timing control, etc. Including the cost of the piggyback itself, it's already standalone $ territory. Plug in a standalone, spend 2-3 hours of tuning and you are good to go.
I use all piggybacks on a regular basis, and it depends on the car. AEM FI/C seems to be promising, yeah, try that with most Toyotas. Toyota crank sensors HATES being touched, and when you wire in the FI/C in there, get ready for some real fun. Car stalling, fail to start, and car can literally shut down on you in the middle of the highway. FI/C on a Mazda, and now your car probably takes a good 5-10 secs of cranking before the engine catches. You can't obtain RPM signal unless you feed a crank signal for the F/IC, which renders the unit useless if you have a car that has a sensitive/troublesome crank signal. I also ran into one FI/C unit when the internal MAP sensor failed as well. When the internal MAP failed, the software automatically runs the engine at the lowest scale on the fuel/ignition tables. That's ridiculous because the lowest cell is always the most timing and least fuel. One car came in boosting in 14's AFR without even knowing the MAP failed until he caught it on his wideband early enough. AEM did well on their AEM EMS though, because I am sure many of you know that a failing MAP sensor on the AEM EMS will automatically run the car based on TPS vs RPM. This in turn makes the car run at the highest load scale instead (least timing, most fuel). I just wished AEM would stop rushing their damn products.
I only use the FI/C for very basic Honda setups just so it becomes a good upgrade for those basic turbo kits that still uses an FMU and sh*t, or all motor setups
I'd take the E-manage Blue over the FI/C most of the time. The E-manage can be wired in with as little control as possible. Say you need to add fuel only, all it needs is a tach RPM signal, power and GND, and injector harness. If you really hate intercepting the ignition signal, you can use an OBD-II diagnostics software via laptop and log the timing. Shift the MAP/MAF values around in airflow map to have some control over a range of timing, and then use the injector map to re-correct the fuel maps again. For boost reference for all maps, just add the boost sensor. Now you have some timing control (+/- 3-4 deg) without even needing an ignition harness. On the topic of intercepting the ignition signal, just like all piggybacks on a unique particular car, you have to confirm the timing changes with a timing light on the dyno under load. 8 out of 10 times I would get good ignition control out of an E-manage... The other two times, I had to do some digging and reading on the web to find out if it needed some resistors or diodes between the circuit (ie: Mazda, Dodges). It's always worth the extra money to run an E-manage IMO.
I usually have guys in here with custom turbo cars, and I use the E-manage Ultimate if they are looking for the best available tune for their car besides a full custom standalone (ie: haltech, etc) and a fresh new basemap from scratch (easily $3000+). In conjunction with several common wideband and narrowband primary O2 modifiers from Splitsec which can be had for cheap, the Ultimate is pretty darn good with all the essentials for a thorough tune ie: IAT comp, coolant temp comp, individual cyl fuel & ignition control, and you can actually implement a closed-loop O2 system using a wideband even if your car doesn't come with one from the factory.
The above is basically what I have dealt with for the past 6 years or so (all started with the blue of course)
04-27-2008, 07:00 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: AEM F/IC vs. E-Manage Blue (Tony the Tiger)
the main feature of the fi/c i see that i like is the ability to skew the o2 sensors.. i have a couple cars in the shop that are a bitch to tune b/c they stay in closed loop all the time.
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