Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

Update: Block couldn't go 81.5mm going to send the block to Benson and do 84mm sleeved block. CP 9:7:1 cr pistons, eagle rods.

justYncredible

iTrader: (1)

personally i wouldnt go over 81.5 without resleeving. i think the walls become weaker as the more metal you remove, i think that is basic knowledge. i guess there is a reason why honda sells 81.5mm pistons and not 82mm

OneBadTurboCRV

82mm is fine for N/A but for Forced Induction, it isn't that wise. Sure, people have done it, but it is only a matter of time before something happens. You must have noticed the differences in wall thickness already? You must remember that cylinder pressures and heat soak are higher with a turbocharged engine.

What are you calling low compression? Even if you only have 91 octane available you shouldn't go much below around 10:1 these days. It is pretty pointless. With the advances in tuning technology there is just no reason for it.

Rather than speculate, you should just wait for the machine shop to tell you if 81.5mm is going to work or not as they can't do much either way without pistons in hand.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I would consider these guys if boosting stock sleeves. They have had very good success, even offer a 500hp warranty.
http://www.cylindersupportsystem.com/

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the replies guys..

I was able to get the block to the machine shop today and I asked them what they thought.. I told them to start on that cylinder (#1) and if 81.5mm is not going to work then stop and I'm going to start looking into sleeving the block.

OneBadTurboCRV

For cost effective sleeving you can't go wrong with a Benson sleeved block. If you are looking for big power, you can't beat Darton MID sleeves. People will say Golden Eagle too, but I have never been impressed with their quality.

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

I would like to have a block that could safely hold 400whp (my current turbo is maxed out at 330hp), but if i ever upgrade in the future..

I was looking at these Weisco pistons 9.7 cr

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/WIS-K542M81

You are saying I would be fine round 10:1 cr?

If i end up sleeving what bore would you all recommend or have had success at? Piston/Rod combination

I'm searching and reading up on this stuff as I type this, but since the thread is already made.. Doesn't hurt to ask

OneBadTurboCRV

What fuel do you have avaialbe to use? That will weigh heavily as to what compression you will want to go with. Bore size is a matter of opinion and if you are going to bore it you should consider a LS crankshaft as well. The difference in 81mm to 84mm may only be 20-40whp but what you will lose out on is the multiple rebuild factor of starting small. The preferred combo would be 84mm x 89mm stroke. This is a true 2.0L setup and will help with torque production.

Stock blocks with forged internals can handle 400whp just fine. A piston a rod combo is going to get a lot of OPINIONS, so I will leave it at this - for a daily driver a 4032 forging is preferred. Wiseco would be a great choice and the upgraded (thick wall wrist pins) would be a wise choice as well. As for rod and those power levels an Eagle set would be fine. The "accepted" limit on those is about 600whp...

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

93 Octane. E85 is scare in my area so i don't want to go that route

I know you say 84mm, but per say I could go 83mm and have room to rebuild later on down the road.. like you said. it seems a little safer and wiser from the budget stand point. How about bearings? OE Honda or ACL?

Thanks for the help man.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

IMO, for 350whp 82mm would be fine.

IMO, if your only have access to 92-93octane, I would get 9.1-9.5cr
if you have access to e85, I would go 10.1 - 11.1cr (since you have mild goals)


For pice of mind you could do CSS for $300
or you could even go with O.E. style replacement sleeves such as darton 300 series which would be about $400-$500 (sleeve & install)

Good luck

turbociv910

82mm block i had made 485 on pump gas gt35r setup no problems

OneBadTurboCRV

9:1-9.5:1 for 93? What a waste... I doubt he would enjoy his engine being a turd out of boost. For 93 octane 10:1 is a safe static compression and won't feel lethargic out of boost. E85 would be better suited for 11:1+ builds or high power levels.

As for bore, reread 4th sentence in the first paragraph that you quoted. The CSS is a waste of money at your goal level in my opinion, but Darton Dry sleeves could be another option for you. They don't get much consideration being they are more tedious to install. Shipping can play a large roll in price difference too.

For bearings, some will say OEM and others will say ACL, but not the race version (has flashing removed). Personally, I have used them all and ACL's are perfectly fine in any version. OEM are the "easiest" as they come in so many different sizes to help get your exact desired clearances. For your goals 0.0018" for everything should be fine, but in the end it is your choice. You will find the ACLs are MUCH cheaper than OEM though.

Runnerdown

I agree with n3va. But does wiseco even make 4032 for these engines? I know mahle, supertech and srp do.

OneBadTurboCRV

The question should be - "Does Wiseco even make a 2618 forging?"

mafia

I would have to agree, you should at least get 10 cr pistons, I have supertech 10cr in my teggy, out of boost feels like NA car. I had dry darton dry sleeves in my h22 while back, they are nice too.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

For a sub 500 whp engine, I went with cp. I'm running 0.004" ptw and the engine seems to be "quiet".

OneBadTurboCRV

This should say for ABOVE 500whp... Why people want a 2618 forging for daily driving and reduced longevity is beyond me. Most of the kids on here haven't put 60-80k or more on an engine to understand the real difference. That, and most peoples engines don't even last 1/4 of that to begin with...

"Jimmy", please take the time to explain the end use of your build so people have a better idea of what you are trying to do. The original post is too open ended.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, but I disagree. 0.003 or lower is way too tight. 0.004 is the number most professional engine builders use for boosted sub 500 whp cars.

Who mentioned daily driving? For daily driving cast is best, non-boosted of course.

Not sure who this is for, maybe just politicing on your part.

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

Apologies.. The car will be a weekend warrior. Driven hard and will see track use.

My original goal was to just be around 300-350 whp. I spoke with Dan Benson about possibly getting the block sleeved. If i do spend the money to sleeve the block I would like to make more power eventually one day and know the with a great tune the bottom end will hold up.

OneBadTurboCRV

I have made all my statements very generalized and to suit a broad audience. Where I felt it necessary I added in "my opinion/experience", and I foretold the future and said others would jump in with the "fan boy" approach and start spouting nonsense with no technical merit backing them. This was the same exact case with the Piston and Rod combo thread. Everyone spouting off brands with out reasons WHY. It is just pure ignorance.

OP - I would still suggest a 4032 forging. If over time you decide to change pistons for compression or what have you, this would potentially allow (with a decent amount of honing) the choice of going to a 2618 forging down the road in the same bore size. Many options to consider, but all the answers are actually easily searchable if you can wade through the BS. I am not sure why others are not adding input in this thread, but maybe somebody with some knowledge will give you a second opinion perhaps...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I guess I'm the minority when it comes sleeving with "odd" sizes ( 82mm, 83mm, 82.5mm and so on) this is because most of the manufacturers tend to have fewer of the particular parts available and now you're looking at custom gasket sizes that are outisde the OEM spectrum. If you decide to sleeve I recommend the more understood sizes like 81mm, 81.5mm or 84mm. That way if replacement is necessary and you come to find out that tou don't have to bore to the next size up, you can replace easily and quickly. Unless you plan to stroke the motor as well, there's little advantage to using 82mm vs. 81mm or even 84mm, unless you plan to bore and stroke at the same time.

I like 10.0:1 -10.4:1 compression for turbocharger on 93 octane pump gas. I wouldn't go back to 9.0:1 anymore. Use a nice thick wristpin with the Wiseco pistons, and you're golden, Jimmy.

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

Alright guys. Thank you for all of the input and help.. I decided I am going to get Dan Benson to sleeve the block and go 84MM and I just ordered 84mm CP 9:7:1 cr pistons and eagle rods & ARP main studs...

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Benson does great work. I dont think main studs are necessary but if you decide to go that route have Benson line hone the main bores with the studs.

OneBadTurboCRV

ARP main studs are absolutely unnecessary for your horsepower goals and will require more machine work and potential headaches upon install. ARP main studs require a line bore to be done as they have a higher torque setting than factory. This typically causes the crankshaft center line to move "up". This will require oil pump alignment dowel modifications and potential piston to head problems. Stock main cap bolts have been pushed passed 800whp but it is recommended to upgrade after that point. On too of all this, a Benson sleeved block is one of the few that doesn't require a crankshaft line bore after installation. This is due to not actually removing all of the cylinder like other sleeves.

I highly recommend you reconsider ARP main studs for your build.

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

He said he was going too.

Dan requested/recommended me to use ARP main studs and I need to send them when I send the block...

The crank seems fine and made it out without damamge, but I'm also going to have him polish/balance too