djnikko

Hi guys,

So I just bought my h22 turbo manifold and what was advertised as a 38mm wastegate from SSautochrome (ebay), problem is that they have sent me a 35mm wastegate. Im relatively new to this turbo thang and just wanted to know how that will effect my boosting capabilities? Just wondering whether to kick up a fuss or not...

It fits on the flange fine I just dont wanna be limited to say 10PSI whne I could have something that could offer me 15...I would have thought bigger is better. Please enlighten me?

Thanks in advance

onemanlan

I hope you have researched on boosting H22s. They have a high compression ratio and are prone to detonation issues underboost. I've heard many things about the SSauto wastegates. A Hotrex on HMT had one working perfectly till he was doing something to it and pinched the diaphram and then it spiked on him while driving and blew his engine. He bought another one recently and said it looks of much better quality.

I'm unsure of the 35 & 38mm measurements and boost issues though, I would like to know.

beerbongskickass

Yeah I would get a tial... 35mm or 38mm should work fine. SSautochrome sucks period.

Finland

The larger gate is less likely to facilitate creep at low boost levels.

VtecAdil

get rid of that ****, and buy a tial

djnikko

I'll get a tial

I guess the flange will be the same so no fitment issues?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onemanlan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hope you have researched on boosting H22s. They have a high compression ratio and are prone to detonation issues underboost. I've heard many things about the SSauto wastegates. A Hotrex on HMT had one working perfectly till he was doing something to it and pinched the diaphram and then it spiked on him while driving and blew his engine. He bought another one recently and said it looks of much better quality.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have CP 9:0:1 pistons taking care of the compression

JDM00SI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The larger gate is less likely to facilitate creep at low boost levels.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what do people mean by boost creaps? Sorry for the dumb *** question.

GiNuWiNe

exactly the way it sounds.. boost creeps up..

h22 civic

what turbo r u using?

JDM00SI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GiNuWiNe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">exactly the way it sounds.. boost creeps up.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
How is that prevented? I'm sure its bad because you don't want it to go too high....
am i correct?

Importordomestic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onemanlan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hope you have researched on boosting H22s. They have a high compression ratio and are prone to detonation issues underboost. I've heard many things about the SSauto wastegates. A Hotrex on HMT had one working perfectly till he was doing something to it and pinched the diaphram and then it spiked on him while driving and blew his engine. He bought another one recently and said it looks of much better quality.

I'm unsure of the 35 & 38mm measurements and boost issues though, I would like to know.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have learned well my son.. lol

to the original poster: well it seems that you need to set up some HP goals, then build your motor to that power goal.

first off SSAC manifolds have 2 inherient flaws.

1- the type and gage (thickness) of metal. - SSAC uses shotty metal and its 2 thin =cracked manifold or your turbo just falls off the car. -despite these flaws some people have had great success with these manifolds.

2- the placement of the wastegate flange. - SSAc places there wastegate at 45-60 degress opposite of the exaust flow. - this makes the efficiency of the external wastegate dramatically less. therefore facilitating boost creep.

About the wastegate that you have: i would never use a 35mm wastegate PERIOD - if you were using a turbo that would use a 35mm wastegate i would just use and internally wastegated turbo, and block off the external wastegate flange. if you are going to use a externale wastegate get a 38mm or bigger.

As for the craftmonship of the SSAC wastegate: people have had great success with the wastegate. -BUT in most cases the wastegate needs to be taken apart and the diaphram installed correctly.

TIAL is always good


I hope everything goes good with the install. post some pics

dpetro1

well usually you have boost creep issues because the wastegate is not venting enough exhaust gases causing the turbo slowly continue to create more boost. this is usually an issue if the wastegate valve is too small (internal wastegates do this alot). for the most part the tial 38mm will get the job done. you may want to go bigger if you are making crazy power at higher boost levels.

on a side note...is it possible to have a wastegate that is too big? any disadvantages to having like a 44mm gate on like a 10psi 300whp setup?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djnikko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It fits on the flange fine I just dont wanna be limited to say 10PSI whne I could have something that could offer me 15...I would have thought bigger is better. Please enlighten me? </TD></TR></TABLE>

the 35mm and 38mm use the same flange. the size of the wastegate valve doesnt actually control how much boost you can achieve. that is determined by the spring inside the wastegate. A lighter spring will open sooner causing lower boost levels while a stiffer spring opens later and needs more pressure to hold it open increasing the boost pressure.

as you can probably tell already, honda-tech pretty much hates SSAC because there have been so many reports of cracking manifolds, defective wastegates and turbos falling apart. i have never used their products but it generally seems like they are low quality.

dpetro1

damn you beat me. i type slow

Importordomestic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM00SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is that prevented? I'm sure its bad because you don't want it to go too high....
am i correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

correct you do not want the boost to go higher than you tuned it for.

how to prevent it: run a turbo manifold that has good wastegate placement and a properly sized wastegate.

Importordomestic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">damn you beat me. i type slow </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah me 2 you beat me to it as well on the wastegate.

bnut510

tial

dpetro1

turbosmart also makes a very nice wastegate that uses a one piece billet valve (race gas compatible) the tail needs a different valve for leaded gases. a little pricey though


Modified by dpetro1 at 1:50 PM 11/11/2005

dpetro1

just found this on the turbosmart website. might answer some questions (including mine) about wastegate size. very interesting

Big Turbo/Low Boost = Bigger Wastegate
Big Turbo/High Boost = Smaller Wastegate
Small Turbo/High Boost = Smaller Wastegate
Small Turbo/Low Boost = Bigger Wastegate

While the valve diameter is, without a doubt, an important part of the flow volume, equally important, but often misunderstood, is the importance of the valve travel. When comparing wastegates, don't be guided only by the valve size, check the amount of valve lift. In some cases it's more beneficial to have a wastegate with a smaller valve and long valve travel than one with a large valve diameter and minimal lift.

Importordomestic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just found this on the turbosmart website. might answer some questions (including mine) about wastegate size. very interesting

Big Turbo/Low Boost = Bigger Wastegate
Big Turbo/High Boost = Smaller Wastegate
Small Turbo/High Boost = Smaller Wastegate
Small Turbo/Low Boost = Bigger Wastegate

While the valve diameter is, without a doubt, an important part of the flow volume, equally important, but often misunderstood, is the importance of the valve travel. When comparing wastegates, don't be guided only by the valve size, check the amount of valve lift. In some cases it's more beneficial to have a wastegate with a smaller valve and long valve travel than one with a large valve diameter and minimal lift.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting..

stirnice

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The larger gate is less likely to facilitate creep at low boost levels.</TD></TR></TABLE>

FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wastegate is put on your exhaust manifold to reduce exhaust manifold pressure. If you require a HIGH exhaust manifold pressure(big turbine with big housing) you will require a smaller wastegate. If you put 6 38mm WG's on the exhaust manifold once full boost hits, the gates will open and your boost will fall off. So bigger wastegate is NOT always what you want.

simike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djnikko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have CP 9:0:1 pistons taking care of the compression </TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't see anyone mention this so I will. Forged pistons and FRM sleeves have been known to be a bad combination. Did you resleeve your block? Is the engine built and running non-turbo right now? Just trying to prevent a major rebuild incase you don't know about FRM sleeves.

turbotime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stirnice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wastegate is put on your exhaust manifold to reduce exhaust manifold pressure. If you require a HIGH exhaust manifold pressure(big turbine with big housing) you will require a smaller wastegate. If you put 6 38mm WG's on the exhaust manifold once full boost hits, the gates will open and your boost will fall off. So bigger wastegate is NOT always what you want.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Location of the wastegate on the exhaust manifold plays a big part in boost creep. In general a larger wastegate will reduce creep if its also in the right location on the manifold.

A larger wastegate will open at the psi you want (spring or MBC) and keep you there. In generally the more psi you are running the bigger you want your wastegate to be so it can expel the gas fast enough to keep your boost at the correct level and not spike.creep....

I would recommend a tial 35mm or 38mm, i personally use the 38mm.

djnikko

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by simike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I didn't see anyone mention this so I will. Forged pistons and FRM sleeves have been known to be a bad combination. Did you resleeve your block? Is the engine built and running non-turbo right now? Just trying to prevent a major rebuild incase you don't know about FRM sleeves.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The block is sleeved with darton sleeves and running CP pistons, crower rods. Are FRM sleeves a brand?

Thanks

simike

No FRM sleeves are the stock sleeves (fiber reinforced metal). When you run forged internals they have been known to scuff or actually stick to the sleeve and sieze up. You will be fine with the dartons.