1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
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1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Some of you may recognize this prelude from my appearance build thread. I figured that a performance build thread should be made instead of adding performance upgrades in the appearance build section. If admins have an issue with this, please let me know. Those of you who may not recognize this prelude and would like to see how the Prelude has come a long way, here's the link to the appearance build thread: https://honda-tech.com/forums/appearance-build-threads-122/day-one-1997-prelude-build-rice-nice-2756853/
Lets start from the beginning. The whole idea was to break-in an H22 N/A, and slowly acquire the turbo system.
I purchased a freshly sleeved H22A1 long block about two years ago.
The whole package included:
H22A1 Head
Full Race Port & Polish by Endyn (Energy Dynamics)
R&R Bronze Valve Guides
Supertech Exhaust Valve, stock sized, stainless flat face Black Nitride coated
Supertech Intake Valve, stock sized, stainless flat face Black Nitride coated
Type R Lost Motion Devices
Skunk2 Tuner Springs
Skunk2 Tuner Titanium Retainers
Cometic MLS H22A Head Gasket, 0.040” HP, 50cc Combustion Chamber
Skunk2 Tuner 2 series cams
Cloverleafed Chambers
ARP Head Studs
Note: Endyn stated that this head was their second best flowing H22 at 345 cfm.
H22A1 Block
89.5mm Darton M.I.D. Racing Sleeve Kit
Wiseco 89.5mm 9.0:1 Compression Ratio Pistons
Crower Billet Steel I-Beam Rods
ARP Bolts
Lightened (Knife-Edged) and Balanced H22A1 Crankshaft
ARP Main Studs
Pro Drive Oil Pump
OBX Aluminum Oil Pan
Manual Tensioner Timing Kit
Greddy Extreme Racing Timing Belt
Balance Shaft Removal Kit
In addition to the engine, I purchased the following:
Port matched & polished Skunk2 Pro Series intake manifold
4 puck sprung clutch
ACT 9.9 lb flywheel
Quaife limited slip differential
Port matched DC 4-1 Header
AEM Cold air intake
RC 550 cc saturated injectors
We also converted the prelude to OBD1 and installed a P72 Hondata S300 ECU.
The build was finished on May 31st of 2008.
The car was running great for about three months. Then the **** hit the fan. While driving the Prelude one day, I noticed an immediate loss of power and throttle response. After slowing down from 80 mph to around 35 mph I could hear what sounded like a rod knocking. A couple days later I removed the head and was trying to find the source of the problem.
After taking a close look at all the cylinders with a flashlight, I found the culprit. The block had a hairline fracture coming from behind the #2 sleeve.
The first thing I did was call up ERL and setup a time to take the block and internal parts in to have them inspected. Upon first examination by Shaun at ERL, his conclusion was that they had improperly installed the sleeve and that when the block became under load, the crack started from behind the sleeve and was slowing working it's way to the crank. He stated that they would warranty the sleeve job and build me a new sleeved block at no charge.
Later on that week they called me and said that even though the block had not been run since it left their shop, since I was not the original customer on file who ordered the sleeve job they would not warranty the block but would be more than happy to build me a new block for 2500.00. They also told me that they did not have an official "on paper" warranty that would cover any sleeve jobs that they complete.
Lets just say we had some words exchanged.
I was back at step one and had no block. I called up Endyn who built the head and they recommended that I talk to Steve at Race Engine Development in California. Endyn apparently has a sort of partnership with R.E.D. Endyn builds the heads and R.E.D. builds the blocks. Both companies provide their work for many of Honda's race teams. And on top of that, Steve at R.E.D. is the patented inventor of the Darton MID Racing sleeve.
So, over a year after the block went bad, things are finally starting to come together on the new build. And since then, I've done some research and decided to change out many parts for the new build.
We'll start with the head.
I decided on the Skunk2 Pro Series valve train and Pro 1 series cams. The setup includes:
Pro 1 series camshafts
Pro Series standard size stainless valves
Pro Series valve springs
The spring bases to increase the valve spring seat pressure from 60 ft lbs to 80 ft lbs.
Pro Series titanium retainers
This is me seating the new valves in.
This shows the difference between a new valve, and a seated valve. Take a close look at the edge of the valve where the seat job ground the valve to fit the valve seat on the head. For those of you who may not understand, the seat job is done to form an air-tight seal between the valve and the valve seat on the head. This ensures that no air will pass through while the valve is closed.
Cleaned up the surface areas before the power wash
Installation of the valve train.
The valve train installed and the head cleaned.
The new H22A4block is coming from Race Engine Development and includes a new cryo-treated Darton MID Sleeve kit bored to 89.5mm to fit the Wiseco pistons from the previous block. This is the newest model H22A4 that featured 55mm mains over the previous 50mm mains. So I had to purchase a new crank to fit it.
The block should be finished and ready to ship by the end of next week, hopefully.
Here are a few more parts.
I went with the RMF replica header. This will be installed until I can afford the rest of the turbo system.
Apexi WS2 universal turbo muffler
OBX Oil pan
Here's some recent work we've done:
Installation of the Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
Pulled the transmission out and gave it a nice cleaning.
My friend Jeremy making fun of how little my transmission is compared to his shoe. Which happens to be a size 15...
I'll update this immediately after any work gets done. More to come soon!
Lets start from the beginning. The whole idea was to break-in an H22 N/A, and slowly acquire the turbo system.
I purchased a freshly sleeved H22A1 long block about two years ago.
The whole package included:
H22A1 Head
Full Race Port & Polish by Endyn (Energy Dynamics)
R&R Bronze Valve Guides
Supertech Exhaust Valve, stock sized, stainless flat face Black Nitride coated
Supertech Intake Valve, stock sized, stainless flat face Black Nitride coated
Type R Lost Motion Devices
Skunk2 Tuner Springs
Skunk2 Tuner Titanium Retainers
Cometic MLS H22A Head Gasket, 0.040” HP, 50cc Combustion Chamber
Skunk2 Tuner 2 series cams
Cloverleafed Chambers
ARP Head Studs
Note: Endyn stated that this head was their second best flowing H22 at 345 cfm.
H22A1 Block
89.5mm Darton M.I.D. Racing Sleeve Kit
Wiseco 89.5mm 9.0:1 Compression Ratio Pistons
Crower Billet Steel I-Beam Rods
ARP Bolts
Lightened (Knife-Edged) and Balanced H22A1 Crankshaft
ARP Main Studs
Pro Drive Oil Pump
OBX Aluminum Oil Pan
Manual Tensioner Timing Kit
Greddy Extreme Racing Timing Belt
Balance Shaft Removal Kit
In addition to the engine, I purchased the following:
Port matched & polished Skunk2 Pro Series intake manifold
4 puck sprung clutch
ACT 9.9 lb flywheel
Quaife limited slip differential
Port matched DC 4-1 Header
AEM Cold air intake
RC 550 cc saturated injectors
We also converted the prelude to OBD1 and installed a P72 Hondata S300 ECU.
The build was finished on May 31st of 2008.
The car was running great for about three months. Then the **** hit the fan. While driving the Prelude one day, I noticed an immediate loss of power and throttle response. After slowing down from 80 mph to around 35 mph I could hear what sounded like a rod knocking. A couple days later I removed the head and was trying to find the source of the problem.
After taking a close look at all the cylinders with a flashlight, I found the culprit. The block had a hairline fracture coming from behind the #2 sleeve.
The first thing I did was call up ERL and setup a time to take the block and internal parts in to have them inspected. Upon first examination by Shaun at ERL, his conclusion was that they had improperly installed the sleeve and that when the block became under load, the crack started from behind the sleeve and was slowing working it's way to the crank. He stated that they would warranty the sleeve job and build me a new sleeved block at no charge.
Later on that week they called me and said that even though the block had not been run since it left their shop, since I was not the original customer on file who ordered the sleeve job they would not warranty the block but would be more than happy to build me a new block for 2500.00. They also told me that they did not have an official "on paper" warranty that would cover any sleeve jobs that they complete.
Lets just say we had some words exchanged.
I was back at step one and had no block. I called up Endyn who built the head and they recommended that I talk to Steve at Race Engine Development in California. Endyn apparently has a sort of partnership with R.E.D. Endyn builds the heads and R.E.D. builds the blocks. Both companies provide their work for many of Honda's race teams. And on top of that, Steve at R.E.D. is the patented inventor of the Darton MID Racing sleeve.
So, over a year after the block went bad, things are finally starting to come together on the new build. And since then, I've done some research and decided to change out many parts for the new build.
We'll start with the head.
I decided on the Skunk2 Pro Series valve train and Pro 1 series cams. The setup includes:
Pro 1 series camshafts
Pro Series standard size stainless valves
Pro Series valve springs
The spring bases to increase the valve spring seat pressure from 60 ft lbs to 80 ft lbs.
Pro Series titanium retainers
This is me seating the new valves in.
This shows the difference between a new valve, and a seated valve. Take a close look at the edge of the valve where the seat job ground the valve to fit the valve seat on the head. For those of you who may not understand, the seat job is done to form an air-tight seal between the valve and the valve seat on the head. This ensures that no air will pass through while the valve is closed.
Cleaned up the surface areas before the power wash
Installation of the valve train.
The valve train installed and the head cleaned.
The new H22A4block is coming from Race Engine Development and includes a new cryo-treated Darton MID Sleeve kit bored to 89.5mm to fit the Wiseco pistons from the previous block. This is the newest model H22A4 that featured 55mm mains over the previous 50mm mains. So I had to purchase a new crank to fit it.
The block should be finished and ready to ship by the end of next week, hopefully.
Here are a few more parts.
I went with the RMF replica header. This will be installed until I can afford the rest of the turbo system.
Apexi WS2 universal turbo muffler
OBX Oil pan
Here's some recent work we've done:
Installation of the Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
Pulled the transmission out and gave it a nice cleaning.
My friend Jeremy making fun of how little my transmission is compared to his shoe. Which happens to be a size 15...
I'll update this immediately after any work gets done. More to come soon!
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Very impressive...but what was I expecting, haha I just came from your other thread. I didn't even know this one existed till I saw your sig but I'm really excited to see how the engine turns out. as always.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Lol. I figured someone would make the connection eventually. But I just recently made this thread last week. I'll include all the performance upgrades in this one.
#4
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
did you use air tools to clean off your head? it looks like you did, I would highly recommend getting it decked before you install it. or at least make sure that its flat. the guy at the local machine shop told me thats a big no no lol.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Well we do the same thing to all the heads we build. The "clean up" is just removing the old layers of carbon, not actually taking off ANY metal. I ran the air tool at such a low rpm that it would be very difficult to remove anything but the residue. In the picture it may look as if there are grooves in the deck. But these are just the fine spiral marks left behind from the circular motion of the bit. The head is completely flat. However, we always use a machined edge to double check how flat the deck is before we install the head. Thanks for bringing that up tho.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Just an update on the block:
Steve at R.E.D. called me today at work and said that the machine shop is currently fixing their imperfections on the bore job and that he should have the block back by next week. I really can't wait to get this engine built.
Last edited by 97_Built; 11-18-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Question though, what made you choose the Skunk2 line of valvetrain products? I'm thinking about going the same root (N/A though) with my H22.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
What really made me decide on Skunk2 was their Pro 1 Series camshaft. These specific cams satisfy the kind of build I'm working on. I needed a camshaft that provided great performance in and out of VTEC. I knew that it would be cheaper and easier to stick with OEM or Type S cams, but I wanted more low-end power, as well as respectable numbers while in high rpm and forced induction.
Another reason is because of the type of engine I have. The head I have flows at a very high rate (345 cfm). Therefore, a camshaft with an aggressive lift and duration would allow the head to breathe more, which in turn lets me use the head for it's high potential.
The block is going to be at 10:1 compression, which is what the Pro 1 camshaft is designed for.
In case you haven't researched it yet, the Pro 1-3 cams were designed to be Skunk2's best performance N/A camshafts. But when Skunk2 introduced the Pro 1 cam to forced induction, the new design proved very competitive. When properly tuned on a 10:1 cr H22 engine, the Pro 1 series camshaft out performed every other camshaft to date, N/A and FI. This combined with the low end grunt while not in boost, this valvetrain design is the perfect choice for my specific build. And I'll be utilizing the Pro 1 N/A performance for a little while anyways until I can get the rest of the turbo parts together.
All in all, I just can't find any competitive valvetrain that can get close to what the Skunk2 Pro Series design can offer me.
What kind of setup are you thinking about doing man?
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
You've done your research...good stuff...you'd be surprised at the amount of people who don't know how.
My build is slow and steady, and I'm taking my time. Actually, I just bought my H22 head today. I have an H23 in my 'Lude at the moment so I have the luxury of working slow. Since I only have the head so far (I've spent today inspecting it and cleaning it up and it looks good), I'm focusing on getting the valvetrain situated while I'm on the lookout for a block. I'm looking to build a mild all-motor build with 11.5 or so compression and a good intake, header, and exhaust setup. I'm going to be careful and put in good parts and do my research.
I've heard (this was in a B-series discussion...any input on H would be awesome) that the stock valves actually flow better than any aftermarket valves. Again, I haven't decided on anything but I figure it wouldn't hurt to use stock valves at least at first, although your Skunk2 valves look really nice. I plan to use Skunk2 camshafts (probably Pro 1?), but I think to "break in" the head when it's all together I'll use stock cams. The ones I have are in great condition.
I'm in the information collecting phase now. It's a whole different game going from H23 to H22...suddenly there are a lot of parts available.
Any advice?
My build is slow and steady, and I'm taking my time. Actually, I just bought my H22 head today. I have an H23 in my 'Lude at the moment so I have the luxury of working slow. Since I only have the head so far (I've spent today inspecting it and cleaning it up and it looks good), I'm focusing on getting the valvetrain situated while I'm on the lookout for a block. I'm looking to build a mild all-motor build with 11.5 or so compression and a good intake, header, and exhaust setup. I'm going to be careful and put in good parts and do my research.
I've heard (this was in a B-series discussion...any input on H would be awesome) that the stock valves actually flow better than any aftermarket valves. Again, I haven't decided on anything but I figure it wouldn't hurt to use stock valves at least at first, although your Skunk2 valves look really nice. I plan to use Skunk2 camshafts (probably Pro 1?), but I think to "break in" the head when it's all together I'll use stock cams. The ones I have are in great condition.
I'm in the information collecting phase now. It's a whole different game going from H23 to H22...suddenly there are a lot of parts available.
Any advice?
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
That's a good thing to have the option of taking everything slow. Like you already know, it's so important to research everything and take it slow. Seems to save money and stress in the long run.
I'm not too sure about the whole valve flow thing but if you're planning on running Pro Series cams then you'll need the Pro Series valvetrain. If you're planning on running 11.5:1 compression then I assume you have no plans of going forced induction down the road. If this is the case, then I would advise that you go with the Pro 2 cams. The Pro 1 cams are recommended for 10:1 to 11:1 compression. The Pro 2's are designed for 11:1 - 12:1 if I'm not mistaken. And the Pro 3's are for anything higher. The only problem with anything higher than Pro 1 is that Skunk2 highly recommends not using them for FI due to the design for high compression and the amount of overlap. And the Pro series cams do require professional tuning. So are you planning on doing the H23/22 frankenstein? Or a complete H22?
I'm not too sure about the whole valve flow thing but if you're planning on running Pro Series cams then you'll need the Pro Series valvetrain. If you're planning on running 11.5:1 compression then I assume you have no plans of going forced induction down the road. If this is the case, then I would advise that you go with the Pro 2 cams. The Pro 1 cams are recommended for 10:1 to 11:1 compression. The Pro 2's are designed for 11:1 - 12:1 if I'm not mistaken. And the Pro 3's are for anything higher. The only problem with anything higher than Pro 1 is that Skunk2 highly recommends not using them for FI due to the design for high compression and the amount of overlap. And the Pro series cams do require professional tuning. So are you planning on doing the H23/22 frankenstein? Or a complete H22?
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Yeah, I'm not planning on going FI with this engine. I'm planning on building a complete H22 and then pulling the H23 and building it for boost. That's even further down the road, at this point I'm just focused on getting the H22 put together. My compression isn't set in stone, considering I don't even have the block, but I am planning on at least higher than 11. So Pro 2 seems to be the way to go, and for that Skunk2 requires their valvetrain? More expensive, but it seems worth it. Thanks man!!
And let's see some updates
And let's see some updates
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Sounds like a good plan. And yes, Skunk2 requires a Pro Series valvetrain due to the lift and duration of the cams.
Just to give you some i formation on High compression H22 builds, this head I have used to be paired up with a block that was at 13.5:1 compression. At that time the head had a Skunk2 tuner series valvetrain and Skunk2 Tuner 2 cams. And since the engine had a cr higher than 11.5:1, it needed race gas. The engine was placed in a civic and produced whp exceeding 325.
I also forgot to mention this in the last post... Race Engine Dev. recommended using race gas only, if the engine produces a cr higher than 11.0:1. But he also said that with some serious tuning, 11.5:1 on pump gas is possible, but not recommended. I thought this might help you make some decisions based on whether this will be a DD or weekend car.
And hopefully my block will be ready to ship by next week.
Just to give you some i formation on High compression H22 builds, this head I have used to be paired up with a block that was at 13.5:1 compression. At that time the head had a Skunk2 tuner series valvetrain and Skunk2 Tuner 2 cams. And since the engine had a cr higher than 11.5:1, it needed race gas. The engine was placed in a civic and produced whp exceeding 325.
I also forgot to mention this in the last post... Race Engine Dev. recommended using race gas only, if the engine produces a cr higher than 11.0:1. But he also said that with some serious tuning, 11.5:1 on pump gas is possible, but not recommended. I thought this might help you make some decisions based on whether this will be a DD or weekend car.
And hopefully my block will be ready to ship by next week.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Yeah, I've still got a lot of research to do. Having an H23, I never thought about stuff like this haha. I'll keep you posted on how my "build" goes, and I'll PM you for questions. I appreciate the advice so far, but I'll let this thread get back on topic!
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
The block from Race Engine Developmentis finished and ready to ship. Unfortunately, I only have 1500 out of the 2000 I owe to send him. With this new job, hopefully I'll be able to pay him the remaining 500 so we can recieve the block and begin our measurments and prepare for assembly.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Look forward to seeing your engine back in the bay and up and running,
goodluck with all the work ahead of you. Also love the custom body
work you did in your appearance thread, came out great, definately worth
all the effort.
goodluck with all the work ahead of you. Also love the custom body
work you did in your appearance thread, came out great, definately worth
all the effort.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
Thank you sir. I lack just over $500 before R.E.D. will ship the new block to my doorstep. Everything else is ready to assemble, minus the exhaust and a new fuel rail.
It seemed to take forever on the body but it seems to have paid off well.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
I'll be filing for my taxes within the next couple days, which means R.E.D. will be getting the final payment very soon and the block will be shipped. Immediately, the rest of the parts will be purchased including:
Gauges
CAT & Resonator
Exhaust Tubing
Cometic Headgasket
Clutch & flywheel
Replacement coolant hoses
And Type R lost motion assemblies.
Probably a couple things more that I can't remember atm.
We need one more warm day to paint the engine bay.
Sorry for the lack of updates. With the new job and steady paychecks, we've been knocking out the more important things, like bills.
Keep checking this thread because it's gonna be flowing with updates and pictures within the next few weeks.
Gauges
CAT & Resonator
Exhaust Tubing
Cometic Headgasket
Clutch & flywheel
Replacement coolant hoses
And Type R lost motion assemblies.
Probably a couple things more that I can't remember atm.
We need one more warm day to paint the engine bay.
Sorry for the lack of updates. With the new job and steady paychecks, we've been knocking out the more important things, like bills.
Keep checking this thread because it's gonna be flowing with updates and pictures within the next few weeks.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
I just dropped an envelope in the post office box containing the last payment to Race Engine Development for the purchase of the new block and other parts. This is the beginning of a sprint to the end of the new build. Once that block comes in, we'll measure the compression and start the assembly. Lots of pictures to come soon.
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Re: 1997 Prelude Turbo H22A4 Build
The header has been recorded producing an additional 22-25 bhp. Equal length runners, 4-1 design with 3" collector. Stainless steel and excellent welding. Fits all h22s.