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Likely revisiting an old topic but wanted to give it a try, possible I'm overlooking some info or there's someone here who's interested in helping me out on the EO sticker for a monetary thank you.
I'm also interested in thoughts of others running the kit in original form, especially anything you wish you were aware of before doing the kit.
I recently purchased a JRSC kit for an ITR. There's a couple of things I'm trying to work out. Chief among them is the EO sticker which Moss still won't sell to anyone other than an original owner. (yeah I'm in Cali)
Other bit's I could use any direction on:
Fuel enrichment relay missing: not sure if this was a common relay or something more complex but need some ideas on how to address.
Tthrottle roller bracket missing: so I would like to source a replacement or alternative for this to avoid having to move to gsr throttle body and cable slack issues associated.
Info about my current build that will be going into the ITR:
B18C5 (oem rdot block, usdm pistons, crank)
Used JDM 98+ head (iirc skimmed .005, valve job)
Dual layer HG (IIRC compression is a little above 11.1)
Sk2 Tuner 1 cams
98+ OEM header + JDM Cat + Mugen cat back (twinloop)
Custom OEM icebox
S300 tuned by Church (213hp, 151tq dynapack) https://honda-tech.com/forums/appear...-anew-3275268/ https://www.typerclub.org/forums/vie...95e799a4af1c14
Likely revisiting an old topic but wanted to give it a try, possible I'm overlooking some info or there's someone here who's interested in helping me out on the EO sticker for a monetary thank you.
I'm also interested in thoughts of others running the kit in original form, especially anything you wish you were aware of before doing the kit.
I recently purchased a JRSC kit for an ITR. There's a couple of things I'm trying to work out. Chief among them is the EO sticker which Moss still won't sell to anyone other than an original owner. (yeah I'm in Cali)
Other bit's I could use any direction on:
Fuel enrichment relay missing: not sure if this was a common relay or something more complex but need some ideas on how to address.
Tthrottle roller bracket missing: so I would like to source a replacement or alternative for this to avoid having to move to gsr throttle body and cable slack issues associated.
well i got 3 pieces of info for you (based on my experience with sourcing, completing, and tuning a JRSC for my older B16A2 before i B18C5 NA swapped)
1) CARB-EO sticker: Some where... i do have a high resolution image/replica i made of the original CARB EO sticker. I basically made one based off photos I saw, matched fonts, and printed-->laminated-->stuck to my firewall at one point. So if I can find that source image, that can be done. http://stupidgoodphotos.tumblr.com/p...-b-series-****
2) Fuel relay thing: It kinda sucks frankly... basically when ever boost was detected via a diaphragm, it would ground out the IAT sensor making it think it was like -20* outside, forcing the ECU to run rich. It was 'good enough' for the time, and got it passed smog since the vehicle would not run WOT or the like during the test. Now a days you can get by that by simply Zip-Tieing the bypass valve open. This prevents the SC from boosting the manifold, effectively making you run NA. You could pass with a stock ECU in this mode w/o relay, unless they needed it for 'visual'... and even then, you could fake it with some wires and a vacuum line. Now a days your FAR better off tuning with your S300 to compensate based on a 3Bar Map sensor. You get better transitional response since the ecu can respond in real time, instead of a stock ECU going OHH **** and running rich. S300 can give more & proper fuel and timing to the engine... so stick with the S300 for power and Daily use... and use my hacks for emissions. If i recall, we ended setting my VTEC point to something like 3500, since your under instant boost you could use the added lift of a ITR cam at that point to great power gains.
3) That throttle bracket can be a pain and I know it was needed too properly reduce slack. In that regard you'll have to source it some where or make one.
Last edited by Thmanx; 10-17-2018 at 07:32 PM.
Reason: added JRSC EO sticker proof
well i got 3 pieces of info for you (based on my experience with sourcing, completing, and tuning a JRSC for my older B16A2 before i B18C5 NA swapped)
1) CARB-EO sticker: Some where... i do have a high resolution image/replica i made of the original CARB EO sticker. I basically made one based off photos I saw, matched fonts, and printed-->laminated-->stuck to my firewall at one point. So if I can find that source image, that can be done. StupidGoodPhotos
2) Fuel relay thing: It kinda sucks frankly... basically when ever boost was detected via a diaphragm, it would ground out the IAT sensor making it think it was like -20* outside, forcing the ECU to run rich. It was 'good enough' for the time, and got it passed smog since the vehicle would not run WOT or the like during the test. Now a days you can get by that by simply Zip-Tieing the bypass valve open. This prevents the SC from boosting the manifold, effectively making you run NA. You could pass with a stock ECU in this mode w/o relay, unless they needed it for 'visual'... and even then, you could fake it with some wires and a vacuum line. Now a days your FAR better off tuning with your S300 to compensate based on a 3Bar Map sensor. You get better transitional response since the ecu can respond in real time, instead of a stock ECU going OHH **** and running rich. S300 can give more & proper fuel and timing to the engine... so stick with the S300 for power and Daily use... and use my hacks for emissions. If i recall, we ended setting my VTEC point to something like 3500, since your under instant boost you could use the added lift of a ITR cam at that point to great power gains.
3) That throttle bracket can be a pain and I know it was needed too properly reduce slack. In that regard you'll have to source it some where or make one.
I might have a old pic of my carb sticker too if needed. I used a OEM ITR throttle cable bracket on my JRSC with no problem.
I think I have the sticker worked out now. I also may have a lead on the throttle cable roller or an alternate option to use a bored out GSR TB with GSR throttle cable which is what LHT said they've done in the long years past without any slack issues. i guess those come up if using ITR throttle cable with a GSR TB or maybe I have that reversed.
I do have (now 2) s300 ecus and will have the motor tuned and cam'd by Church again but I'm going to have to re-read the pointers on fuel enrichment, very slowly, to better understand options that will support CA emissions testing. If the relay simply grounded the IAT on a signal from a pressure switch is there any info on the spec for the relay, is this something I can commonly buy then just wire up? I think I'd prefer to get as close to the original setup as I can at least initially.
I think I have the sticker worked out now. I also may have a lead on the throttle cable roller or an alternate option to use a bored out GSR TB with GSR throttle cable which is what LHT said they've done in the long years past without any slack issues. i guess those come up if using ITR throttle cable with a GSR TB or maybe I have that reversed.
I do have (now 2) s300 ecus and will have the motor tuned and cam'd by Church again but I'm going to have to re-read the pointers on fuel enrichment, very slowly, to better understand options that will support CA emissions testing. If the relay simply grounded the IAT on a signal from a pressure switch is there any info on the spec for the relay, is this something I can commonly buy then just wire up? I think I'd prefer to get as close to the original setup as I can at least initially.
Don't even bother with the FMU! even when its hooked up its a terrible piggy back EMS, skip it and run Hondata! As long as you have the carb number cops wont bother you, when its time to smog either pay to pass or hope to GOD even with the engine 100% stock with the JRSC on 6psi with that FMU that it will pass emissions..
Take my advise and stay away from Churches! I have like 40 dyno sheets of separate setups I have had them tune starting from 8 years ago, the last 3 times I went they sucked big *****! no more customer service at all! last time I was there they blew up a customers engine and were arguing about what to tell the customer!.. I arrived with a ECT wire issue I was not aware of they attempted to tune my engine with ECT reading high temps. He then said my map sensor failed and he was not going to finish my tune and I had to tow it home so I argued I cant cause I drove from SD so he sold me a Hondata 4 bar from a customers engine and set a base map and I limped home! fast forward a few months later the Map sensor failed that they sold me! they are garbage. I have had Dardan tune my setups since and he is the MAN! vey nice guy too.
If you want a tune that's 10X better, half as expensive and piece of mind you had a good tuner contact me or contact Dardan on facebook.He is one of the best Tuners out right now! trust me stay away from Churches and come to SD and set up a dyno with Dardan you will thank me later!
1st on emissions...
Taking a peek at your build thread, looks like the car started off as a 97 LS. Given that you have an R-DOT C5 block & swap in there now, you wouldn't be able to pass a normal smog anyway.
1) the car would have to be REF'd with the engine swap, preferably in its NA form with (in your case you 'lucky person') a non Imobolized USDM P73-A03 or A02 ecu. Those are much easier to find then the A04's.
2) Even when ref'd, your year range would mean your car would still be tail-pipe tested for emissions. So you'd have to run the zip-tie trick + visual fuel enrichment relay + tail pipe emissions to pass. If it were a 00+ it would just be an OBD2 Functional and visual test.
So really, there is no way to make this car properly legal, best way to go about it is make it look nice for cops, but im sure if they see a C5 in there and no Ref sticker... the gig is kinda over.
And second, I would also mention that @Bubba from @DoItDyno is still around in the Signal Hill area. He's tune previous JRSC setups before including my own back in the day, both at 6psi and 11psi w/ a water-meth injection system tied in w/ fail safe tune.
Just look him up on facebook or IG and you find him.
1st on emissions...
Taking a peek at your build thread, looks like the car started off as a 97 LS. Given that you have an R-DOT C5 block & swap in there now, you wouldn't be able to pass a normal smog anyway.
1) the car would have to be REF'd with the engine swap, preferably in its NA form with (in your case you 'lucky person') a non Imobolized USDM P73-A03 or A02 ecu. Those are much easier to find then the A04's.
2) Even when ref'd, your year range would mean your car would still be tail-pipe tested for emissions. So you'd have to run the zip-tie trick + visual fuel enrichment relay + tail pipe emissions to pass. If it were a 00+ it would just be an OBD2 Functional and visual test.
So really, there is no way to make this car properly legal, best way to go about it is make it look nice for cops, but im sure if they see a C5 in there and no Ref sticker... the gig is kinda over.
And second, I would also mention that @Bubba from @DoItDyno is still around in the Signal Hill area. He's tune previous JRSC setups before including my own back in the day, both at 6psi and 11psi w/ a water-meth injection system tied in w/ fail safe tune.
Just look him up on facebook or IG and you find him.
Thanks for the info I'll look them up.
Just FYI the project is an 01 ITR, the 97 LS was rear-ended last Nov. so that project is now RIP. The ITR, 01-386, is on the second link (on my first post), to ITRCA, and very much in progress due largely to some unexpected rust issues an an abundance of caution. I have the p73-A04 ecu and all required emissions components so all set to go legal, when required, I'd just have to work out the charger portion to go that route.
I was doing some reading on meth\water\alky injection last night and found it very interesting, a bit unclear if it really ends up with much of a cooling effect on the intake charge due to brief\limited contact. I saw some claims that registered IAT temp drops are only reflected due to sensor exposure to the mix not an actually temp drop. I'd love to hear more about your experience with it on a JRSC setup? Definitely on my list to dig a bit deeper and maybe experiment with.
Ah my apologies, K that makes more sense then. Given that its a C5 RDOT block in an ITR chassis, your prob safe from needing an official engine change REF tag. Since you'r just doing a 'engine replacement' not 'engine change'. Under-normal circumstances, you could just take a RDOT Blocked ITR to any smog shop, and its just normal stuff. Which now means for your 2001 vehicle just Visual checks, and an OBD2B Data Check for everything being OK. This actually helps your case. You very easily could just do the zip tie + 'fake' IAT Sensor trick. You'd pass visual if they REALLY wanted to look for that relay, + your car would run just fine w/o boost with the butterfly open on a stock map. Just make sure you drive around for a week or so like that so the car gets used to it and clears any OBD2 related Readiness issues like EVAP and Cat efficiency/Fuel Trims.
I used the AEM watermeth kit in my 11psi B16A2 setup. Eventually just running it on water. Basically you set up 2 tunes, one that has more aggressive timing when the water tank is full. Then once the tank is empty, it grounds a wire that sends a signal back to the S300. This can be set to change tunes to one that's more conservative. Keeps the car alive when water is out, and automatically switches MAPs based on conditions. While the temp change is debatable since the sensor is in the water mix, I can say we were able to tune it harder with the water in there and it kept knock away.
1st on emissions...
Taking a peek at your build thread, looks like the car started off as a 97 LS. Given that you have an R-DOT C5 block & swap in there now, you wouldn't be able to pass a normal smog anyway.
1) the car would have to be REF'd with the engine swap, preferably in its NA form with (in your case you 'lucky person') a non Imobolized USDM P73-A03 or A02 ecu. Those are much easier to find then the A04's.
2) Even when ref'd, your year range would mean your car would still be tail-pipe tested for emissions. So you'd have to run the zip-tie trick + visual fuel enrichment relay + tail pipe emissions to pass. If it were a 00+ it would just be an OBD2 Functional and visual test.
So really, there is no way to make this car properly legal, best way to go about it is make it look nice for cops, but im sure if they see a C5 in there and no Ref sticker... the gig is kinda over.
And second, I would also mention that @Bubba from @DoItDyno is still around in the Signal Hill area. He's tune previous JRSC setups before including my own back in the day, both at 6psi and 11psi w/ a water-meth injection system tied in w/ fail safe tune.
Just look him up on facebook or IG and you find him.
Originally Posted by Thmanx
Ah my apologies, K that makes more sense then. Given that its a C5 RDOT block in an ITR chassis, your prob safe from needing an official engine change REF tag. Since you'r just doing a 'engine replacement' not 'engine change'. Under-normal circumstances, you could just take a RDOT Blocked ITR to any smog shop, and its just normal stuff. Which now means for your 2001 vehicle just Visual checks, and an OBD2B Data Check for everything being OK. This actually helps your case. You very easily could just do the zip tie + 'fake' IAT Sensor trick. You'd pass visual if they REALLY wanted to look for that relay, + your car would run just fine w/o boost with the butterfly open on a stock map. Just make sure you drive around for a week or so like that so the car gets used to it and clears any OBD2 related Readiness issues like EVAP and Cat efficiency/Fuel Trims.
I used the AEM watermeth kit in my 11psi B16A2 setup. Eventually just running it on water. Basically you set up 2 tunes, one that has more aggressive timing when the water tank is full. Then once the tank is empty, it grounds a wire that sends a signal back to the S300. This can be set to change tunes to one that's more conservative. Keeps the car alive when water is out, and automatically switches MAPs based on conditions. While the temp change is debatable since the sensor is in the water mix, I can say we were able to tune it harder with the water in there and it kept knock away.
So regardless of how it works... it works lol.
I have been stopped multiple times by cops with no issues with my DOT C5 swap even recently since I run a carb legal Procharger, but once got a reff ticket for having a AEM FPR when I had a fully built LHT JRSC setup on my DOT swap, so I reffed my 1999'' GSR with the full RDOT B18C5 swap from head to block to Trans but put it back 100% stock with a OBD2 1999 ITR ECU and passed with flying colors also it had Skunk2 Tuner 1 cams still in! with no need for a reff sticker! this was at the Reff station at Miramar college. They scan the Trans bar code as well as enter in the Block serial number and as long as everything is properly connected for emissions your good.
I forgot how bad the port alignment was on the original kit. 16 years ago I just cleaned up the imperfections in the runner but didn't port match it like LHT.
Before
After 2mm removed/ tapered bored like LHT Cleaned up the S-tube again and ported the blower inlet Blower inlet Port matched A mild 3mm porting on each side of the blower outlet / I may do a more aggressive porting later like MR. GRiMM (RIP)
Butt dyno feels good and most of the gains came in the mid and high rpms. My old whp was 250whp and 175ft lbs at 9.5 psi on a hondata 2b lol. Time to update it to a s300 v3.
Last edited by morepoop4u; 10-30-2018 at 12:18 PM.
made a 1inch thick tb spacer that tapers from 74mm to 68mm ported s-tube 74mm tapered to 68mm wot 74mm compared to the 68mm tb holley 68mm tb vs 74mm ebay special
Does the spacer affect throttle cable (GSR or ITR)?
On the larger oem style TB, can you still use the ITR intake arm?
Im guessing that with the ported S tube and need to push Tb to 68 you're running LHT style cooler, higher boost (>8 psi), and probably upgraded/overbore’d internals?
Originally Posted by morepoop4u
made a 1inch thick tb spacer that tapers from 74mm to 68mm ported s-tube 74mm tapered to 68mm wot 74mm compared to the 68mm tb holley 68mm tb vs 74mm ebay special
well I think i have gone a bit crazy. had a S-tube cast to match my 72mm throttle body. it still need some finishing machining.
I also cut off the back of my manifold to give me more room to work. will be making new sensor mounts and bungs to replace the one i cut off. will be using 3mm plate aluminum to close it all up when im done machining the internals.
mock up of the core housing. will be sealing the intake side (i.e. the supercharger and bypass valve outlet) so all the air goes through the laminova cores still a long way to go.
Does the spacer affect throttle cable (GSR or ITR)?
On the larger oem style TB, can you still use the ITR intake arm?
Im guessing that with the ported S tube and need to push Tb to 68 you're running LHT style cooler, higher boost (>8 psi), and probably upgraded/overbore’d internals?
No problem with my gsr tb cable. You want to space the tb because the s tube takes a sharp turn which causes a restriction in air flor when you are at WOT. The Tb plate protrudes into the neck of the S-tube. Someone posted a diagram of this but I'm too lazy to dig it up. If you want to make a quick and easy tb spacer just use a Nylon cutting board and then jb weld enough layers of the cutting board to make the desired length. It also works as a thermal insulating gasket. Has anyone figured out how to make a tvs1320 ccw and a adapter plate for us
I'm looking at getting these reproduced along with the larger supercharger brace (part # 051-421) as my kit is currently missing these components. I figured I'd get a small run produced while I'm at it since there seems to be some demand, perhaps 10-20 to start. I've already modeled them up in CAD software based on images and pictures online and within this thread. But before I actually have them produced I want to verify dimensions and thickness. Even a flat picture of them next to a ruler would be helpful. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I'm looking at getting these reproduced along with the larger supercharger brace (part # 051-421) as my kit is currently missing these components. I figured I'd get a small run produced while I'm at it since there seems to be some demand, perhaps 10-20 to start. I've already modeled them up in CAD software based on images and pictures online and within this thread. But before I actually have them produced I want to verify dimensions and thickness. Even a flat picture of them next to a ruler would be helpful. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Do you have pictures of what these part numbers look like ??? If they are the support bracket parts, I believe Motorvations has already made similar parts.
Do you have pictures of what these part numbers look like ??? If they are the support bracket parts, I believe Motorvations has already made similar parts.
Yes the parts are related to support brackets, see picture below for specific items. If motorvations or anyone else already produces these parts please let me know as I've been searching for them with no luck.
Where did it break? Is it possible to have it welded? I did a home porting job on my Kamikaze when I got it and ended up going too thin. Just had a friend put a couple of beads on the outside of the runners and never looked back. I believe some people a few years ago were running the SK2 alpha mega powers or something like that.
Where did it break? Is it possible to have it welded? I did a home porting job on my Kamikaze when I got it and ended up going too thin. Just had a friend put a couple of beads on the outside of the runners and never looked back. I believe some people a few years ago were running the SK2 alpha mega powers or something like that.
It has a "T" crack along the collector and some cracks inbetween the 4 runners. Doesn't look like it can be saved or all the cracks accessible to whoever's going to weld it. Tried to host pics but photobucket is being not cooperative.
I picked up an "RMF Spec R" header as the seller claims it is locally but it just looks like a stainless JDM ITR style header with a 2.5 out. I'll be installing it Monday.
Not sure if this issue is specific to my JRSC application but going to post here just in case.
I've had a random engine stutter ever since I installed my JRSC. (been 4+ years) The tuner at the time wasn't able to figure it out either, but the issue didn't affect the tuning of the car.
Basically, the car will idle fine and then randomly start to miss/stutter. The car drives fine for the most part and no issues at WOT. The main inconvenience is transitioning from deceleration to acceleration during normal driving. The throttle is a little rough and jumpy during this transition in lower gears. Not a daily driver, but the problem does make the car a bit uncivilized for "unspirited" driving.
So far I have tested the ignitor, starter, rotor, cap, plug wires, spark plugs. Everything seems to be within the tolerances specified by Honda. I was thinking about just buying a new OEM Dizzy or going COP, but would like to really get to the root of the problem first.
I uploaded a couple videos of the engine running normal and then transitioning to the sputter.
10-17-2018, 02:49 PM
Re: ***The Official JRSC Thread***
to better understand options that will support CA emissions testing. If the relay simply grounded the IAT on a signal from a pressure switch is there any info on the spec for the relay, is this something I can commonly buy then just wire up? I think I'd prefer to get as close to the original setup as I can at least initially.
still a long way to go.
