Screamer

Hi Everyone, just a quick question. Is it necessary to upgrade to the Pro Drive or similar Oil Gear when using FI ??? I am in the process of putting in my turbo setup SC61 (thanks ART) into my SCREAMER and based on what I have heard once you start pushing 350 - 400 whp it is recommended to upgrade the oil gear. Can I rely on some expert opinions of Honda-Tech members to lead me in the right direction..... thanks in advance.

Tofurky

It's not necessary. There are people pushing 400+ whp with stock oil pump gears with no problems.

I upgraded to a Pro Drive gear when my stock gear broke(thanks to the CTR crank pulley).
It was just for peace of mind.

RS Machines

Iwould suggest to get the gear if the motor han not been put together yet...it is an investment that can save you in the long run

Screamer

The reason that I am asking is that my friend has a 91 integra with a build b series engine pushing 400whp. Last weekend he went to the track and on the second pass he shatered the oil gear. I am not sure if it was the way he was driving, but the gear did fail. It cost him some new bearings on the crank so not a major work, but nevertheless. My engine is already assembled and in the car. I am breaking it in before the turbo goes in.

Any more opinions???

Tofurky

changing an oil pump is pretty simple. even when the motor is still in the car.

your friend got pretty lucky. when my oil pump went, it took the bearings and my brand new turbo.

done

big newb questoin, wtf is a oil pump gear?

PM-Performance

are we talking the whole oil pump in general? or just the gear?

done

just the gear? do they got out alot on high hp cars?

Tofurky

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are we talking the whole oil pump in general? or just the gear?</TD></TR></TABLE>

just the gear.

Tofurky

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just the gear? do they got out alot on high hp cars?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's pretty rare. But it does happen.

Boost2NA

stock one should be fine. you rarley hear of these failing. im running stock

Screamer

Thanks for the great answers!

The noob question was very important... in fact I know of the oil pump gear, but I don't really know what it exactly does. It looks realy weird too. Can someone explain as to why an oil gear would fail as well as comment on the function of this component.

Thanks

DaveF

i had an ls/vtec turbo setup in one of my cars about 2 years ago. it blew the stock ls oil pump gears apart. also..i had an unorthadox crank pulley. im thinking that the pulley was part of the problem, and the other part of the problem was that the bottom end wasnt balanced fully.

Bnjmn

A solid pulley is the worst thing you can run. It'll destroy your bearings and the oil pump. As long as you are running a damped pulley and the clearances on the oil pump are within spec you should be fine. Stock ones have worked fine in 800hp drag engines. If you want an upgrade for the stock one, have Endyn port it.
With the billet gears you will definitely need to spec them, but they have broken as well so it isn't a cure all. If you have a couple g's laying around go dry sump.

Tofurky

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Screamer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Can someone explain as to why an oil gear would fail as well as comment on the function of this component.

Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your oil pump consists of two main parts: the oil pump housing, and the oil pump gear.

The housing holds the gear in place. And is bolted onto your block.
The gear itself, is two parts. An outter, and inner.
The gear turns with the crank. Pulling the oil from the pan, up throught he pick up, through oil pump, and throughout the rest of your happy motor.

Oil pumps usually shatter due to vibration. From either an improperly balanced block, or the lack of a harmonic balancer. Or even just bad clearances.

Here's my old oil pump. Note the shattered oil pump gear in the middle.


And here's Pro-Drive's oil pump gear.

(note the little slot on the inside bottom of the inner gear, that is what "locks" onto the crank)

333

I had two sets of stock gears break. First, was at 9000 rpm @18 psi. The second was while beating on a cbr 954 in 5 over 150mph at 7500 rpm with an ls trans for more than thirty seconds. The car only makes 340 to the wheels. Built b16a in a crx 1800lbs semi- gutted. We are back with prodrive. I don't know what to think about oil pumps. Blew out the whole side of the motor.

ekb18c

stock works for me...

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bnjmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. If you have a couple g's laying around go dry sump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats where im going .....i think z10 is gonna be the drysump system, i go with.

also gonna give their 1 wire alt. a shot too.

Bnjmn

I talked to one of their guys for what must have been an hour @ Etown in the spring. Sounds like a very solid setup and it is truly bolt on, but I just couldn't justify spending that much on it.

downpipe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Screamer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the great answers!

The noob question was very important... in fact I know of the oil pump gear, but I don't really know what it exactly does. It looks realy weird too. Can someone explain as to why an oil gear would fail as well as comment on the function of this component.

Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was told that the stock gear is "sintered(sp???)" metal, i think powdered metal pressed together or something...but i have heard of both stock and prodrive gears failing from time to time.

saso

Do you want to buy a whole new block (Sleeved or unsleeved), crank, bearings etc. Or do you want to buy a oil pump gear? I Have boosted 20psi on stock no prob, and I have boosted 10 psi and broke many.Bottom line the oil pump gear IS the weakest link in the honda motor FI full stop. Only a fool would build an engine and not change the gear. DO the math.

Project_SOHC_EX

I don't know how far you're gonna push that motor but a friend of mine has blown his motor twice because of a faulty oil pump gear. My friends car was putting out 333whp and 245 lbs of torque tuned by Hondata and a 12.4 or 12.5 a/r across the board if you need proof of how smooth the curve here's a link http://<a href="http://www.imagestat...[/img]</a> and if you can't see that one here's another http://www.imagestation.com/pi...g.gif . But in my opinionI DEFINITELY recommend the ProDrive oil pump gear when pushing that much hp. Oh yeah his motor was boosting 15psi stock sleeves using the Greddy 18g Turbo kit on a JDM B16 motor. He blew the motor last spinning 7k rpms @ about 150 racing a guy on a bike. And for all doubters that's using the LS tranny. As a result, he has upon the last rebuild purchased the ProDrive oil pump gear and a set of upgraded 720cc injectors from 550's we're gonna max out the turbo on 18psi hopefully between 370-380hp and another 10-15lbs of torque good luck.

B18C GSR CIVIC

I shattered my stock oil gears when I had my unorthadow crank pully on. I then shattered the PRO DRIVE oil gears with the same pully on. Since then I was stupid and re bough t the pro drive gears and got ride of thath friggen crap crank pully and have been fie ever since. I make over 400whp.

Although my mech with the fastest civic in Ottawa dyno's alittle over 540whp and he uses stock oil gears so the choice be yours. Just stay away from shitty crank pullys w/o a harmonic balancer!

g2turbo

bump for a good topic. i always ran stock but never made very much power

Screamer

Thank you for great explanation! One question why is the inner gear offset?

And thanks to eveyone who gave their input.

By reading all of the replies it seems that there is two issues that lead to the oil gears failure:

1) use of aftermarket crank pully (specifically without harmonic dampener).

2) engine is pushed to the limit at high speed.

Now, based on the fact that some really crazy setups are still running the stock oil gear with no problems, it seems that if I avoid both of the cases listed above I should be fine with a stock oil gear.

Does this sound right???

Yes, a dry sump setup would be ideal, but at a great cost $$$ .