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-   -   Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY? (https://honda-tech.com/forums/engine-management-tuning-124/will-not-boost-past-4-5-psi-why-3334356/)

ngv1515 02-26-2019 12:05 PM

Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
I recently got the car and the reson I got it for a good price is because the car had A LOT OF ISSUES. It wasn’t boosting AT ALL. It was undriveable. Previous owner used to drag race the car and was running high 11s at 1/4 mile. Then the car sat for about 2 years after it stopped boosting. A lot of mechanics tried to fix it but I think they made it worse.

B18C GSR stock with APR head studs
had a Turbonetics 54 Turbo now a EBay one.
P06 chipped ECU I don’t know what was use to tune it.
Greedy BOV
Turbonetics wastegate with 2 ports
3 port boost controller
big precision intercooler
runs on E85
Skunk2 intake manifold.
Walbro 255 fuel pump.
Blox FPR
Precision 1200 cc injectors


So far I fixed;

- wideband was dead > wiring and calibrating issues.
- BOV leaked badly > replaced
- vacuum leaks > fixed
- 3 way boost controller hoses unplugged > routed again
- Turbo has play > replaced
- engine harness plug pins at ECU worn and loose > rewired all of them to OBD1
- blocked fuel filter > replaced
- never got to operating temperature > replaced thermostat.
- bad battery terminals and bad grounds > replaced and made new grounds
- starter died > replaced
- shifter very loose and couldn’t find gears > replaced bushings and unbend shaft

The list is just the engine related stuff, I may be forgetting some things I did. After all
of that, car boosts at 4.5 PSI. Maybe I missed a leak somewhere because it runs lean when cruising and at idle when it warms up. Wideband shows 16.0 I did pressure tested the boost pipes but nothing.

My final guess at the moment is to check inside the intercooler for debri. It didn’t have a air filter or a mesh. Maybe it’s blocked. I’ll take a look tonight.

If if you guys have any other ideas let me know.

ngv1515 02-27-2019 05:37 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
Removed intercooler and inspected, not blocked. I cleaned the inside with degreaser and water then pressure tested off the car. It’s all good. Pressure tested the rest of the system and found a few small leaks but nothing major (fixed small leaks) Still boosting at 4.5PSI.

Ill remove wastegate tonight to inspect.

2x0 02-27-2019 08:10 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by ngv1515 (Post 51872549)
. Wideband shows 16.0 I did pressure tested the boost pipes but nothing.

You need to find out what engine management is being used and get that sorted. If it is reading 16 A/F you are dangerously lean, and should not be driving the car at all much less making boost. It may be unable to create anymore boost because it is running so terribly lean, timing is off, etc. Or the turbo could be shot as well.

After sitting for long periods, an ECU or some EMS's can go bad. Especially the older Hondata S300 v1's. If this happens, the car could be going into limp mode and you will damage the engine, if you haven't already, by trying to run it hard.

ngv1515 02-27-2019 12:10 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by 2x0 (Post 51873577)
You need to find out what engine management is being used and get that sorted. If it is reading 16 A/F you are dangerously lean, and should not be driving the car at all much less making boost. It may be unable to create anymore boost because it is running so terribly lean, timing is off, etc. Or the turbo could be shot as well.

After sitting for long periods, an ECU or some EMS's can go bad. Especially the older Hondata S300 v1's. If this happens, the car could be going into limp mode and you will damage the engine, if you haven't already, by trying to run it hard.


I don’t drive the car every day, I just put a new EBay turbo and it also boosting at 4.5 psi. I only drive it when I fix something to see if it fixed it. It goes lean at idle when hot only or while cruising. When I load it, it gradually goes from 16 to 10. It’s fueling for boost under load but the boost is not there. The wideband is NOT connected to the ECM and there is no other O2. I asked my local tuner if they can do something and the response was, “Get a Hondata ECU for $800 and have us tune it for about $600, assuming the tune is the problem”

I have a S300 V1 but it does not have the OBD1 plugs, it has OBD2B which I’m running on my other car. I need to get a OBD1 to OBD2B harness to be able to use it.

If I don’t find anything wrong with the wastegate I’ll get the harness and I’ll have it tune but I have a feeling is not the tune.

2x0 02-27-2019 01:50 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
The tune sucks regardless of whether you think it's the problem. It should not read 16 at idle, nor 10 under load.

The best way to diagnose this issue is to get the engine management set up properly so that you can datalog and see what is going on when the boost is being limited. Without seeing what your engine sensors are seeing you are flying blind.

ngv1515 02-27-2019 04:05 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...afd0ab83c.jpeg

ngv1515 02-27-2019 04:08 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by 2x0 (Post 51873991)
The tune sucks regardless of whether you think it's the problem. It should not read 16 at idle, nor 10 under load.

The best way to diagnose this issue is to get the engine management set up properly so that you can datalog and see what is going on when the boost is being limited. Without seeing what your engine sensors are seeing you are flying blind.


i agree with you but everything needs to be working properly mechanically.

ngv1515 02-27-2019 05:00 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
Removed wastegate hoses and drove car, 4.5 psi still. With a 10 psi spring mechanically it should boost all the way to 8-10PSI. Removed wastegate and found seal leaking. I’m cleaning the valve and the valve seat. Hopefully this is it.

NVturbo 02-27-2019 05:35 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
so the car sat for 2 years with E85 fuel inside the tank? That's likely one of the issues. And WHY ON EARTH could you replace a Turbonetics turbocharger for an EBAY crap? Makes no damn sense...

ngv1515 02-27-2019 06:49 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by NVturbo (Post 51874131)
so the car sat for 2 years with E85 fuel inside the tank? That's likely one of the issues. And WHY ON EARTH could you replace a Turbonetics turbocharger for an EBAY crap? Makes no damn sense...

Replaced it because it has some play, I still have it. I will send it out to get it rebuild. I did drain and clean the tank. fuel is good.

motoxxxman 02-28-2019 07:04 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
I replied in your original post. It seems the wastegate only has a 4.0-4.5psi spring installed.

ngv1515 02-28-2019 08:20 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by motoxxxman (Post 51874580)
I replied in your original post. It seems the wastegate only has a 4.0-4.5psi spring installed.

I took it apart. LOL it has a 7PSI (white) spring with a big “spacer/shim” on it. I took the spacer out and it boosts at 3PSI. I’ll get another spring. Manifold leaking some exhaust at the gasket too.

ngv1515 02-28-2019 09:12 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...b336a58bb.jpeg

motoxxxman 03-01-2019 07:01 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
Oh god. That wastegate itself could be part of the problem. I would suggest dumping it and buying a Tial F38 wg. it'll bolt right up exactly the same, and actually work correctly.

NVturbo 03-02-2019 11:13 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
^^^ agreed.

That Turbonetics W/G has seen better days.

Caoboy 03-02-2019 11:21 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
At the very least get rid of the eBay turbo and just let the car sit while you get the turbonetics rebuilt.

Don't chase down all these problems only to have a POS product spew it's guts through the engine.

Aradin 03-02-2019 12:52 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
^^ My dude people make huge power with eBay turbos all the time now. They're not the newest tech by far but they will make power just fine if they're installed correctly. Even the best brand name turbo will still fail if it's not installed correctly. Have you ever seen an eBay turbo "spew it's guts through an engine"? In all my years messing with cars I haven't seen one do anything more than leak through the seals after a lot of miles. Most people bashing a cheaper product are just bandwagoning or trying to justify their own "expensive" purchase.

NVturbo 03-03-2019 05:22 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by Aradin (Post 51876803)
^^ My dude people make huge power with eBay turbos all the time now. They're not the newest tech by far but they will make power just fine if they're installed correctly. Even the best brand name turbo will still fail if it's not installed correctly. Have you ever seen an eBay turbo "spew it's guts through an engine"? In all my years messing with cars I haven't seen one do anything more than leak through the seals after a lot of miles. Most people bashing a cheaper product are just bandwagoning or trying to justify their own "expensive" purchase.

I bought my Turbonetics for $525, BNIB. Those eBay turbos ARE GARBAGE. Don't need to waste my money to figure that out.

How else can you install them correctly?? Even if you rotate the turbo the other way, it will still work. For someone that has a turbocharged car, you sure sound like you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm guessing a shop did all your work for you.

Aaeonix 03-03-2019 05:28 AM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by ngv1515 (Post 51872549)
I recently got the car and the reson I got it for a good price is because the car had A LOT OF ISSUES. It wasn’t boosting AT ALL. It was undriveable. Previous owner used to drag race the car and was running high 11s at 1/4 mile. Then the car sat for about 2 years after it stopped boosting. A lot of mechanics tried to fix it but I think they made it worse.

B18C GSR stock with APR head studs
had a Turbonetics 54 Turbo now a EBay one.
P06 chipped ECU I don’t know what was use to tune it.
Greedy BOV
Turbonetics wastegate with 2 ports
3 port boost controller
big precision intercooler
runs on E85
Skunk2 intake manifold.
Walbro 255 fuel pump.
Blox FPR
Precision 1200 cc injectors


So far I fixed;

- wideband was dead > wiring and calibrating issues.
- BOV leaked badly > replaced
- vacuum leaks > fixed
- 3 way boost controller hoses unplugged > routed again
- Turbo has play > replaced
- engine harness plug pins at ECU worn and loose > rewired all of them to OBD1
- blocked fuel filter > replaced
- never got to operating temperature > replaced thermostat.
- bad battery terminals and bad grounds > replaced and made new grounds
- starter died > replaced
- shifter very loose and couldn’t find gears > replaced bushings and unbend shaft

The list is just the engine related stuff, I may be forgetting some things I did. After all
of that, car boosts at 4.5 PSI. Maybe I missed a leak somewhere because it runs lean when cruising and at idle when it warms up. Wideband shows 16.0 I did pressure tested the boost pipes but nothing.

My final guess at the moment is to check inside the intercooler for debri. It didn’t have a air filter or a mesh. Maybe it’s blocked. I’ll take a look tonight.

If if you guys have any other ideas let me know.

You need to flash the ECU. Some of the profiles on "selectable" tunes could be incorrectly entered and is functioning correctly, just the wrong parameter. Just a thought

ngv1515 03-03-2019 12:13 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
Turbonetics turbo has the impeller loose but it was still boosting 4.5PSI. I thought it was bad because of the play it had but when I put the EBay turbo I realized it wasn’t the Turbonetics turbo. I found some oil in the intercooler when I took it off to inspect. Turbonetics was starting to leak oil but STILL boosting.

When I took the Turbonetics out, I noticed that the oil restrictor hole for the turbo was way too small for jornal bearing turbos. It had a 1mm restrictor. I drilled it to the size of oil feed hose. Maybe that’s why the Turbonetics Gad shaft play.

I have to put this diagnosis on hold for now until I find a good wastegate. I’ll post some pics of the car if you guys are interested. Keep in mind I got like this.

ngv1515 03-03-2019 12:17 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-t...393f9c922.jpeg

NVturbo 03-03-2019 12:51 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by ngv1515 (Post 51877310)
When I took the Turbonetics out, I noticed that the oil restrictor hole for the turbo was way too small for jornal bearing turbos. It had a 1mm restrictor. I drilled it to the size of oil feed hose. Maybe that’s why the Turbonetics Gad shaft play.

this makes me doubt your mechanical skills. SMH....

There is a reason why turbo companies install restrictors on the feed port

Aradin 03-03-2019 01:04 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by NVturbo (Post 51877035)
I bought my Turbonetics for $525, BNIB. Those eBay turbos ARE GARBAGE. Don't need to waste my money to figure that out.

How else can you install them correctly?? Even if you rotate the turbo the other way, it will still work. For someone that has a turbocharged car, you sure sound like you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm guessing a shop did all your work for you.

It amuses me that you have no rebuttal to anything I said and your natural response is to get defensive. For someone who wants to act like they know what they're talking about, clearly you do not. It's sad because people will see your high post count and think you have some knowledge but clearly you just like to toot your own horn. There are more factors than just "how the turbo is rotated" when it comes to installation. Improper oil line routing causing heat failure or binding, insufficient oil drain angle, incorrectly sized oil restrictor for application, incorrectly installed housings causing binding, etc are just a few things that can go wrong when installing a turbocharger. Again back to what I said initially, you would fall into the category of trying to justify your "better" purchase by bashing on someone else's "lesser" purchase. The eBay turbos work and they make power. Deal with it. Live and let live. I've been doing this for 12+ years now and I've installed more "cheap garbage turbos" that somehow work just fine than I can count. Is it the best way to do things? No but most of us on this website are driving 20+ year old econoboxes at this point and not everyone can justify spending 3x the value of the car to get some extra power. At the end of the day, the only car you have to worry about is your own so why do you care anyway? Enjoy your "superior" product and go to bed at night with the smug satisfaction of knowing you have "one up" on every other guy who opts for a cheaper alternative.

NVturbo 03-03-2019 01:29 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 
I don't know what I'm talking about? haha...that is quite amusing. I've been wrenching on Hondas when you were still in high school getting all excited about going to watch Fast & Furious, the first one.

Just remind us how well your shitty turbos are in the next 6 months, if that long. I guess you didn't respond to my comment about working on your own cars. Hope the shop you're using doesn't charge you too much. Too bad you can't buy knowledge or skills, two of which you seem to lack.

ngv1515 03-03-2019 02:59 PM

Re: Will NOT boost past 4.5 PSI. WHY?
 

Originally Posted by NVturbo (Post 51877335)
this makes me doubt your mechanical skills. SMH....


Originally Posted by NVturbo (Post 51877335)

There is a reason why turbo companies install restrictors on the feed port




restrictors that small are for ball bearing turbos. Car does NOT have ball bearing turbo. It looked like a eBay restrictor. I don’t think it came with the Turbonetics turbo.

Speaking of ebay turbos, I do agree that brand turbos are better but this car is not my only car or “my baby” I have to take care of 4 cars and keeping them road worthy is very expensive even if I install the parts my self. I just spend $1,000 fixing my POS Passat. This turbo civic is just a toy.


I already put the perfect sticker on the hood. LOL



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