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Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

 
Old 04-20-2015, 08:17 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Hell yes.


can you only log 4 channels with hondata?
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:31 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Originally Posted by turbohatch96y7 View Post
Hell yes.


can you only log 4 channels with hondata?
I assume your talking to me lol. I'm on Neptune rtp and I can log as many as I want. I just like to graph those 4 together, it's just my personal preference. Neptune is pretty customizable and very user friendly.
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Old 04-21-2015, 04:50 AM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Not sure how I missed this thread and was wondering why the conversations had stopped in the random chat thread haha...

Anyways, Hondata and NepTune log all the inputs the entire time. It's not like say EFI Live or HP Tuners where you have to select each and every PID to log. If you want to see a specific datalog you just select as such through the filter in the graph section.

I will admit, I have never even thought of sanding off the coating BEFORE you make the pull. Definitely makes things MUCH easier. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 04-21-2015, 07:25 AM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

sanding def makes it easier. good look hatchy!
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:19 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Ok here is a comparison pic of 2 plugs with different timing numbers. I increased the timing 2.25 degrees from yesterday and you can clearly see the blue timing mark move closer to the bend on the ground strap. I could probably get away with adding another couple degrees, but I'm gonna leave it where it's at. I prefer to stay on the conservative side of things.

Here is a pic of a plug with 12.75* table timing and 21.25* actual timing at 16psi.


This is the same pic from the first page I posted with 10.5* table timing and 18.5* actual timing at 16-17psi.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:18 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

I also wanted to point out that I'm tuning on 92 octane pump gas. I would assume that if I was tuning with E85 it would take more timing advance to move the blue timing mark as much as it did for me with only 2.25 degrees.
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:56 AM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

What creates that line? What makes it move? Just curious about the science of this.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:13 AM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerEX-R View Post
What creates that line? What makes it move? Just curious about the science of this.
Heat is what creates the blue line. Basically the sooner you start the ignition process (more timing) more heat is created and more power as long as you are not creating any detonation. So more heat the blue line moves closer to the threads on the plug, less it moves the other way. I'm not very good at explaining it lol but basically that's an very over simplified version.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:16 AM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Bye

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Old 04-22-2015, 11:17 AM
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:31 AM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

That's interesting! Someone should sticky this!
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:48 PM
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:57 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

nice! i think i used 80 grit then smoothed it with scotchbrite. i like the single use of a medium grit instead.


is there a way that you guys can clean up the porcelain? say i get a bit of det/silver specs on the tip by the electrode. can i get that off without smearing or smudging it into the porcelain? im very pleased this thread really filled up with great info. thanks you guys
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:44 AM
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:11 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Originally Posted by turbohatch96y7 View Post
Ive tried to take off some tiny specs at the top of the porcelin but theyre kinda fused in there.
yeah they are one there good. sucks...

anyway lets confirm my prior knowledge about said specs. ive been under the assumption that anything on the top of the porcelain near the electrode happened at low load conditions. if they are like halfway down the porcelain, it was moderate load and if they are found way down toward the base the specs occured at high load most likely wot...
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:19 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Originally Posted by blackeg View Post
yeah they are one there good. sucks...

anyway lets confirm my prior knowledge about said specs. ive been under the assumption that anything on the top of the porcelain near the electrode happened at low load conditions. if they are like halfway down the porcelain, it was moderate load and if they are found way down toward the base the specs occured at high load most likely wot...
This is the way I understand it as well. The silver or reflective specs are the bad ones correct? I have read that it is actually tiny pieces of the piston from detonation. I really want to know about black specs because I have read that can just be fuel or carbon and actually not a sign of det. As my plugs usually have a few faint black specs. I usually use 5x magnification and a bright flashlight to look at the porcelain.

This is a pretty informative thread on spark plugs that I found while researching. Read the long post by burgermas about halfway down the page. A lot of good info.

eCtune :: View topic - Big Power Figures & Spark Plugs
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:42 PM
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Default re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

I think this is sticky-worthy. Although not as organized as it should be, this is a pretty important part of tuning.
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:27 AM
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

I have recently added an aem progressive methanol injection kit to my car spraying 500cc of boost juice about 6" before the throttle body coming on full spray at 15psi. Here are some pics of my plugs after a 3rd gear pull with the engine shut off at redline. I added a few degrees of timing from my straight 92 pump gas numbers you can see a few posts above. As you can see the meth brought the timing mark back closer to the tip of the ground strap.

What I'm wondering about is if the methanol is getting evenly distributed throughout all the cylinders. To me it looks like #1 is definitely the coolest cylinder, and #3&4 the hottest, with #2 being right in the middle. I was reading about methanol injection on an evo forum and it seems the general consensus is that on a Evo #1 runs the hottest with meth. On an evo #1 is the closest to the throttle body were as on a b series #4 is the closest. It looks like my plugs are telling me that #1 gets the most meth and #4 gets the least. I was thinking about adjusting my individual cylinder fuel trims in an effort to even temps out a bit. Starting with something like #1 -1%, #2 0%, #3 +2%, #4 +2%. Then checking plugs again to see if the blue timing mark has evened out throughout the cylinders. I'm running stock ignition so individual cylinder timing trims is not an option. Thoughts?

Overall timing is pretty conservative. I will be adding more timing as I go.

#1


#2


#3


#4 hard to see but the blue timing mark is in the same place as #3 plug


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Old 06-25-2015, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Ahh, you found out the issues associated with not running direct port nitrous or meth injection. Your issue is completely normal actually (although that doesn't make it good). This is the whole reason for velocity stacks inside the plenum and a tapered plenum - to help combat this issue. There was a very good conversation on here a few years ago on this actually.

A few years back when I had individual cylinder O2 sensors on one of my cars, I had to add somewhere around 8 - 10% (IIRC) of fuel on the #4 cylinder alone with a ITR replica... That's why on my current (albeit very slow) semi-build I am installing provisions for the four O2 sensors again. Even with my Skunk2 Ultra Street manifold and I had to add a few percent on #3 & 4 cylinders. I would suspect you will need quite a bit more than 2% IMO.
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Old 06-25-2015, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by OneBadTurboCRV View Post
Ahh, you found out the issues associated with not running direct port nitrous or meth injection. Your issue is completely normal actually (although that doesn't make it good). This is the whole reason for velocity stacks inside the plenum and a tapered plenum - to help combat this issue. There was a very good conversation on here a few years ago on this actually.

A few years back when I had individual cylinder O2 sensors on one of my cars, I had to add somewhere around 8 - 10% (IIRC) of fuel on the #4 cylinder alone with a ITR replica... That's why on my current (albeit very slow) semi-build I am installing provisions for the four O2 sensors again. Even with my Skunk2 Ultra Street manifold and I had to add a few percent on #3 & 4 cylinders. I would suspect you will need quite a bit more than 2% IMO.
Thanks for the info man. I haven't messed with individual cylinder fuel trims much so that's why I was going to start with a small % and recheck the plugs. I'll probably bump that up a bit and go check plugs again.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

nice work boosted- with the plugs easier to read it opens up all kinds of things about the motor/tune you can tweak.


you guys every adjust individual cylinder fuel trim based off of how much of the base ring of the plug is turning color (gold usually on new plugs)?
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Old 08-04-2015, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

That's an awesome thread! thanks guys for the shared knowladge.
I'm new in the game, I just installed an s300 on my b16a2.
It is all motor stock, but I'm going turbo when I'll have everything.
I think that with my stock engine I can learn a lot, while waiting.
I will post my spark plugs too, and I hope to learn with you guys! I'm happy that I found some good diy guys that share....
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:41 AM
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Default Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Be

Last edited by turbohatch96y7; 03-02-2016 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: Reading Spark Plugs - A Discussion

Great thread. I do have one question. If i'm tuning wot ignition at higher rpms, is it necessary to shut the engine during the pull or could you just bring the car to a stop without shutting off the engine after making the pull?
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